Beginner needs some advice

[cbken]

Hello,

I'm close to a total beginner and would need some layout planning input. I have a 4x8 (yeah I know, not the best idea) up and running with some scenery done. Well, I really want a larger layout and have part of the garage available for the layout. A size about 9x17. Three sides will have access from both sides (no walls) and the remaning long side has a builtin workbench and cabinets. I can't have any trackwork go along that side except perhaps on a shelf above the workbench.

Since I don't really have any experience in running trains in a realistic manner I'd like some input and advice as to what I should include in the layout extension. I like a mix of industrial, city and urban scenes. But I'm having a hard time with what the actual track work should look like to work well. I'm afraid that if I just draw up some track and build it, it won't work well for actual operating.

Like I said, I'm very new to the more realistic side of model railroading so I'm not even sure what questions to ask. How should an industrial scene be designed to work well? How should the various scenes be tied together to provide the best posibilites?
Sidings? Should I have a double main line where possible?

The time period will be early 70's but I might want to move closer to present time later on, although with that small of a layout, running modern equipment won't work too good.

If you guys with experience could provide some input, links to good articles or track ideas, etc, I'd really appreciate it.

cbken

[cbken]

I forgot to say that it's an HO layout.

cbken

[pcarrell]

This site should help a bunch.  There's a ton of info here.

http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/BFSpages/LDSIGprimer/TOC.html

Also, I've done a few diagrams to demonstrate some common track arrangements that might be helpful.  Here they are.

The parts of a yard

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track%20Plans/Yard%20Parts/

Switching demonstrations

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track%20Plans/Switching%20Demonstrations/

And here's some track plans that might give you some ideas

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track%20Plans/

[jblackwelljr]

First of all, welcome to the forum. 

 

I can’t claim to be one of the real experienced guys on this forum, but I can tell you what’s worked for me so far. 

 

It’s good that you’re concerned about your layout and its relationship to realistic operations.  Before you start buying and building, you really need to think about the bigger picture so that you can get there even if you start out small and build on things gradually.  My first advise it to get yourself John Armstrong’s Track Planning for Realistic Operations.  I’ve gone through this book several times and each time I learn something valuable – it is a bit much to try to digest all at one time.

 

Secondly, snoop around this forum – search for topics you’re interested in and you’ll find a wealth of good information that can perhaps help you develop a vision.  There’s not much you can do that hasn’t been done here by someone else and that experience is priceless.

 

Finally, don’t armchair too long, (it sounds like you’re already on your way).  There is value in “doing”, even if you make mistakes.  That 4X8 is a perfect place to test newly learned skills.  Besides, who knows, it may end up being the perfect layout for you in the long run.  Good luck.

[twcenterprises]

A size about 9x17.....  running modern equipment won't work too good.

Why not?  You easily use 30" or larger curves, and have plenty of room for modern equipment.  That is to say, unless you simply cram in all the track you can, then that might not be so good.  9x17 is a fairly good size for a layout.  Am I to understand you have a 17' "wall" that you can't use for layout access?  I suppose you could build a "C" shaped layout, having the opening along the 17' of open space.  The part along the workbench/cabinets should be no deeper than about 30" unless you have very long arms, or acces from the rear.

Are you using a track design program?  If so, can you save a picture of your proposed plan as a photo, and post it here?  Then, the members can help point out flaws, and help you refine and fix problems before you build them.  If you need help posting photos, look in the general discussing area of the forum, where you should find the "how to post photos" thread at the top.  You will need to open an account at a hosting service (many of us here use www.photobucket.com), which is free, you just have to register (takes about 5 minutes).  Once you upload a picture to their site, you can click on the button below your picture that says IMG, then (making sure the text is highlighted) right click and select "copy".  In your message, right click and select "paste", and when we view the message, we "should" (if all goes well) see your picture.  If I can do it, anyone can.

As for single/double track, I suppose that would depend on what your interest is.  Have you chosen a prototype that has lots of high speed double track mainline, or a smaller regional line that runs a lot of medium speed single track branchline?  Most major railroads have both.  I re-read your post, and you say you like city, industrial, and urban scenes.  It sounds like you want the "Big city" feel.  Most large cities have at least one major yard, and today most will have an intermodal yard as well.  Sometimes, both are in the same place, that is to say the freight yard adjoins the intermodal yard.  Industrial scenes can be different depending on what timeframe you want.  Years ago, downtown industrial scenes with street running was fairly common.  Many places still have trackage in the streets, with spurs going off in different directions to various buildings.  In the 60's and 70's and early 80's, industrial design was to set up industrial parks, often with a rail yard at one end, and tracks would run between buildings with spurs to serve customers as needed.  Today, industrial design is usually for trucks, rail service is often only considered for customers alongside the tracks (or close by, maybe 1/2 mile or so).  In model form, you could have some of each, with the older city scenes still in business.

Brad

[cbken]

pcarrell, thank you for the links, I will check them out.

I do have the Track Planing book and while I have not read it cover to cover, I have used it as a reference for track standards and such and trying to get some ideas on track arrangements.

I built the 4x8 with extension in mind but did not think enough about it :) But after lots of brainstorming I have an idea on how I can extend from it. My current idea would provide 24" minimum radius on the main line with most of it being around 30" and this should in fact allow modern equipment to run pretty well.

I got the space size wrong, it's actually around 11x14 if I count the workbench area too. One of the 14 foot sides is the workbench, cabinet and a door so I can't really have any trackwork on that side at all. Except a little bit above the workbench.

I'm using a track design program and this helps a lot in figuring out what will fit or not. From past experience I know that drawing on a piece of paper always ends up being too optimistic in what can really fit.

I'll try to post a layout drawing and hopefully you can provide comments on it.

cbken

[cbken]

Ok, here's my layout idea so far. The 4x8 section does not include all current track but the main line goes through correctly. I will extend the main line to go to a staging area and also loop around. On the right side of the 4x8 I will add a shelf that slopes down, bringing the main line down under itself to the big loop. The upper elevation of the big loop will have some industrial track.

I'm also thinking it would be possible to have a helix in the middle of the big loop to a staging area below.

Note that there is access from all sides except where the workbench is up against the garage wall. In other words, the staging above the workbench is against the wall.

Image shows up in preview but not in the actual post. I have no idea why. Can't get link to work right either...


<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r101/cbken/BaseLayout.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


Suggestions are welcome.

cbken

[VulcanCCIT]

for what its worth, I am virtually a beginner toooo...  I had an S guage 20 years ago and just put it together with the oval track I had...  well now...  I am in HO and also have 4x8 with a 2x4 extention, then a 4x4 doing a dog leg type layout.  I tried the www.atlas.com track planner software to get some basic ideas in my head..but then I just went and bought a bunch of track and just started putting it together...trying different things...stepping back...unhooking some track...adding some...adding flex track...some swithes.. etc.  In my mind...I wanted the track all working and ballast down before I did scenery.  The track planning software was a good start for my brain...but putting the track on the table got me going and going well.