Last night I tried to get the POS board level. Good news I will have fire wood for this winter! Hum, guess I need a fireplaces. To say the short comings of my work workings skills showed up is a under statement.
I am tired of laying on the board to pick up a derail car when it happens luckly not that often lately. In the next PIC called What I have now has changed a little, 8' section is wider to handle the 26" radius turn.
Next PIC will show what the new board will look like, not detailed but you should get the idea. It will have two open 18" sections that will have lift out foam panels so there are no holes and area's for details. At work I tested the rather small 18" and I have room to turn around to work on the bench. Used mattress as test, I work for a mattress retailer. Section against the wall is 24" wide, center is all so 24" wide. Outer section will be 36" wide, I can get to that section from both sides. Section by the garage door will all so be 36" wide. By the store room will be 24" wide.
Frame work will be bulit in sections and held together with bolts. Plus it will make it easyer for the estate sale!
Most of the sections will be 2' X 4' but some sections will be a 5' X 3' and some smaller. Where there are 3 lines next to each other will be the sections that bolt together. Single line are braces that are 15" a part. Squares are the legs, there would be 30 of them. On the floor side there will be a 4" lag bolt screw in so I can adjust the height to get rid of the un want grade my floor has.
Some sections may be dropped lower for rivers or valleys. May all so use bridges so train can cross over with out going to the end of the board.
At this point I have no track plain, but like long runs. Section next to the garage door will have the higher line. If I do a yard it will be 2 ended and 3' wide section away from the wall.
Reason I went with 24" wide sections, want to be able to work on the darn rails with out laying on the board. Plus I have seen some pretty good wall mounted boards that look about that wide. Agint the wall and garage door will be open. Not sure what it is called but the rails will be on small boards that are screwed to the center supports. More than likely will use plaster for the moutains and hills. Part will be on plywood with Homestat (spell check and still not sure what it is).
Need big radius turns say 26" or larger but I think 26" is the most that will fit, like hauling 50 cars. Plus I want to main lines and maybe a short 3rd line. Old board has 128 SQ feet and this idea 134 so I pick up some room not counting the lift out sections.
Any and all in put is welcome. Pros here have helped me alot but I want to make the next jump.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Kuda,
Only thing I think you really need to think about is your duck.under. I have the problem too, but my layout plan allows me to duck under once.... once I am in the layout, I can walk around, and only have to duck to get out again. But the layout you have, you could be ducking all the time to follow a train. That will get real old, real fast. I can understand "get as much as you can", as I went through that with my layout but finally realised, it would be an act of futilty to keep all the duck unders. Somethign to really think about if you want to proced with that plan.
Here is a off th ehip shot of an idea, Maybe consider taking out one of the tables and leaving it open at one end. Then, you could turn the middle bench work in a really nice industry area for switching and huge yard with a loco shop. It would then allow you a nice U shape walkway to walk back and forth in.
Some folks are going to nag you about the 18" walkways. That is pretty narrow, but I am crazy enough to play in a garage that hits 100 on a regular basis so I guess I should pick on you too much... Maybe you could knock the tables down to 20" widths. You can get alot of train action on 20". It would then give you much wider walk ways.
Which to be honest, narrow walks way dont bother me that much when operationg.... but holy wow, can they be a pain when working in it. Trying to carry parts, scenery and such. That is a drag.
Just ideas. My .02 cents. I do like the idea of modular bench works, would speed things up quite a bit.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
Only thing I think you really need to consider, is your duck.unders. I have the problem too, but my layout plan allows me to duck under once....and I am "in" the layout. I can walk around, and only have to duck to get out again. But the layout you have, you could be ducking all the time to follow a train. That will get real old, real fast. I can understand "get as much as you can", as I went through that with my layout but finally realised, it would be an act of futilty to keep all the duck unders. Somethign to really think about if you want to proced with that plan.
Here is a off the hip shot of an idea, maybe consider taking out one of the tables and leaving it open at one end. Then, you could turn the middle bench work in a really nice industry area for switching and huge yard with a loco shop. It would then allow you a nice U shape walkway to walk back and forth in.
Some folks are going to nag you about the 18" walkways. That is pretty narrow, but I am crazy enough to play in a garage that hits 100 on a regular basis so I guess I shouldnt pick on you too much... Maybe you could knock the tables down to 20" widths. You can get alot of train action on 20". It would then give you much wider walk ways.
Duckunders are bad, bad, really bad.
Its easy to try to sqeeze in as much track as possible, but save the extra room for
bigger curves and wider ailses. If you really have to, consider a lift-out, or swing gate.
10 X 19 is a pretty decent size consider a folded dogbone.
July MR page 59...that area is a little larger than yours but you get the idea.
Did I mention that duckunders really *(^@, and are pieces of %^&@.
The thing about duck-unders is not the running of the trains, but the working on the layout. Having to go up and down everytime you need a screwdriver or file....
Your reaches are a little long. You can get as much track work with 30" edges and a 5' penninsula and still be able to reach all around. A 5' penninsula will also allow you to turn a train on a 24-26" radius as well. I like the folded dog-bone idea--contiuous running and a point to point feel.
You have room--refer back to the "blobs" in Track Planning for Realistic Operations. Don't be so gung ho to build an empire. I'm baring down on two years on my 5x8 and I figure I have pretty near that much to go. Design it in phases so you get some satisfaction sooner as you complete smaller sections.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
What defines the folded dogbone design?
nasaracer32 wrote: What defines the folded dogbone design?
Space Mouse's Unabridged Dictionary of Model Railroading terms:
Take an oval and squish it so that you have two loops and straights in the middle--like a dog's bone. Stretch it out a mite, then bend it in the middle....
a folded dogbone.
Personally, I think you're trying to cram way too much layout into the space you have. I would never, ever build a layout with duckunders. A friend of mine built his HO scale layout with a duckunder, and he now regrets it every time he has to get into the layout because he is always banging his head or hurting his back, and his knees are giving out no matter how careful he tries to be. I hate going to help him on his layout because of the duckunder, even with a mechanic's creeper to get back and forth on.
I always worry about long reaches. The "standard" maximum reach is 30 inches, and from personal experience (my walk-around table is 60 inches wide) that's a really tough place to work. Also, if you're like most of us you will be wider in 10 years than you are now, so consider those 18-inch clearances in that light. On the bright side, getting wider does involve good food and beer.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
grayfox1119 wrote:As Mr B has stated, SIZE .......your future size....is the main issue here. Now there is some good in this however. If you still love MRR'g in the future, it will drive you to eat the right foods, drink the right stuff, or at least in moderation, your Cholesterol will be less than 200, your heart will love you, you will be in GREAT shape, much better than the "porkers" who have a steady diet of Fast Foods, and you will probably live to be 110 unless you get your CFO very angry !!! So keep those isles at 18", and use those duck unders....it's helping you life right. LOL
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
LOL, I am 6'4" and 287 pounds. I have been wider when I was 325 but I am getting smaller.
Jeffery, my cholesterol is 78 and I am type II but seem to be doing pretty good. I eat fish two to 4 times a week and that is when I dropped the weight. Got the feeling back in my feet and only my left pinke finger is a little numb now. Guess I should give up the brew, but then I would have to dump the wife.
On follwing the train part, that is not a issue to me. I like to sit at my desk and watch the train run. In now way am I into stopping and dropping off cars and picking cars up. Being new to this hobby (first train set was bought Feb this year) I may get into latter.
On the 30" reach, I hear that, that is why there are 24" sections. What was missed is the 2 36" section can be reached from both sides of the board. They could be 50" and not pose a problem.
On working on the track with the duck unders, well I have yet to do any landscaping! Guess there is a lot of stuff needed for it. More than likely I will not get into details like some people. Right now I am sitting 6' from the close section and 22 feet from the back section. So seeing a box a HO person is carrying is not important to me. But again that could change.
One of the reason I like the idea is I might be able to get a 1:1 car in the garage agian. I started this hobby to get away from 1:1 HP cars for a while, been close to 9 months senses I turned a key on a HP Mopar. Eveil car friend got me to come over and look a 73 440 Charger he picked up. I am sure it was a set up. Ran like cr-p and asked me what was wrong with it. Big cam, so no vacume and had a vacume advances dist in it. Just so happen he had a mechanical advances Dist there?? 30 Mintues latter I nailed it on a 30 MPH roll and had it side ways and pulled to 6500 RPM's. Maybe time to install the fresh 440 in my Road Runner.
I was hoping you folks like the idea better than you have. But that is why I posted it here. Anyone here want to do a crude PIC of there idea for my board? I am open to ideas. I will re post the PIC of the room I have, boy that was way to big.
Well, Ken, you seem to be an energetic and ambitious guy. I too have the same garage layout problem. To get rid of the duck unders (two are insanity) just get rid of the center cross section and have an open pit. Next put a 2 foot wide opening in the bottom of the rectangle. Can be anywhere, but I would put it in the middle depending on how the track plan worked with that. You can also expand the width of that area to at least five feet or even more at the ends since it is easily accessible from both sides. You might also increase the shelf at the back to 30 inches. You don't have to lay the track that far back, but a good place for scenery and buildings to give it some depth. That also gives you room to whip the track back before going forward into the corner curves for a larger radius. It makes a good place for a tunnel to hide the curve too! In other words envision a squared off "C" with bulbs at each end of the front sections. Good for large radius turns too. If you want continuous running and hidden staging just add a nolix from each end of the front curves down under the opposite bulb ending in a multi track staging loop. I would put a one turn oval helix in each far corner to gain added clearance and keep the grade to 2 percent. If you double track, it or install a crossover up on the level a train on track 2 (East Bound) will be on track 1 (West Bound) as it should. Think out of the box Ken, and have fun!
Rusty, first thank you for the answer. But could you decod this?
"That also gives you room to whip the track back before going forward into the corner curves for a larger radius. It makes a good place for a tunnel to hide the curve too! In other words envision a squared off "C" with bulbs at each end of the front sections. Good for large radius turns too. If you want continuous running and hidden staging just add a nolix from each end of the front curves down under the opposite bulb ending in a multi track staging loop. I would put a one turn oval helix in each far corner to gain added clearance and keep the grade to 2 percent. If you double track, it or install a crossover up on the level a train on track 2 (East Bound) will be on track 1 (West Bound) as it should. Think out of the box Ken, and have fun!"
1 Sq off C with bulbs?
2 Nolix?
There was a reason I asked for a crud drawing. In MRR years I was just born
Well I will be buying some lumber Sunday, not sure what to do with it but I need to get started.
I was hoping for more than one answer.
My advice: rethink the design and start all over. Eighteen-inch wide aisles are absurdly narrow. The benchwork for the most part is too wide. Get rid of the central peninsual that cuts the operating space in two. That will greatly increase room for the operators and allow one to follow one's trains. Narrow the benchwork to no more than 24 to 30 inches wide, and narrow it if possible for the duckunder or removable section necessary at the point one enters the operators' area.
Mark Pierce
Ken, take a deep breath and have a good think about this. Mark's advice, although stark, is very likely something to give a serious thought to. I don't necessarily agree with him, but if it were me, I would put my plan away and start over just out of curiosity. You can always return to this plan.
What would it cost you, at this stage? I mean, to take a new sheet of graph paper, map out the honest-to-God available space, and then doodle up some new plans that incorporate fewer of the problems that people have suggested are resident in your current plan. Access is critical...believe me, if there is one thing that will screw up your railroading experience as a hobby, it will be your ability to get at what needs putting right....months from now. It is the same in my other hobby, Astronomy. I was warned, in my early reading, that if you have a monster telescope that you can't handle by yourself, you will find yourself setting up that monster in remote locations less and less often. What you can't lift, you won't use. In MRR, what you can't reach won't work for long.
Just a suggestion. It is not even halfway through the first inning, so get it right.
Selector, you have been very helpful with all my set backs and want to thank you and the other folks for taking the time to answer this post.
I took the drawing to K-10 Trains for Ken to look at. He as well said the duck unders will be a pain, but even with the walk ways his 60' x 80' track has, most of the time we Duck Under anyway. But he all so saw the possibilities as I have. He did a quick drawing that is a double figuer 8 that would fit the board with room for a second line and freight yard. But, he all so think about it more and I am. Main thing he did not like was the 18" wide open sections. Said to drop the out side to 24" and make the open spots 24" wide as well.
Either way, with either this idea or another I will have a good board. Bought some lumber and starting on some 24" X 48" sections.
By the way Selector, have 85% of the curttrent bench level (it was 4" off at one end darn garage floor) and works great! Only stuff of mine that will be on E-stupid is the stuff I will no longer want. This is fun 95% of the time.
Thanks for all the answers, and still hope to see some ideas.
Dick, yes I have tought about lift outs. Main reason I have not factor one is, is simple. I happy than heck if I lay a rail that does not derail. This will be my first try at laying road bed! Yep, I am new so the idea of lifting off a section of track, then placing it back on the board and have it work is a little above my head.
I saw the arctile you are posting about, but it was over my head. Main reason it was over my head is because I did not understand the trems that most people here take for gainted. 3 months ago I did not know what a Helix was, or a super elevated turn is. I am learing but the learing cure is tuff.
Being a car guy, it like me telling you need a cam button and leaving it at that.