Widths for a Two Level Layout

[rmbarry]

Are there any design guidelines as to the recommended widths for a two level HO-Scale layout?  Which level should be deeper, the top or bottom, or can they both be the same depth?

Also, what is the recommened height between levels for a helix?  I am trying to figure out how many levels I will need.

Thank You,

Ray B.

 

 

 

[ndbprr]

It's a very (and I emphasize the VERY) subjective decision.  From what I have seen most people make the upper one less deep than the lower one.  This is due to the aisle restrictions and the ability to see under the upper level when operating.  I am 6'5" and most people's layouts that I have seen that are doubledeck are a pain in the butt for me.  I was at an ON3 layout a couple of weeks ago that had 12" between levels and I had to bend 90 degrees at the waist to even see the lower level which was not as deep as the upper one.  personally my two level PRR now building on the first level will be 42" and 60".  Short people who want to complain about me being able to operate my own railroad are welcome to stay home.  On the other hand, I am planning the equivalent of kneeling benchs at key points for shorter people to stand on.  I am still figuring out how I will counterweight them so they retract automatically when someone steps off one. You will never go wrong with making the distance between lvels as large as you can.  You may need to do some mockups and decide for yourself.

[NeO6874]

for those benches, have you tried/thought of using the pneumatic rams like those that are on car trunks?  they can hold the benches up when you need them to be out of the way, and yet they will release/lower fairly easily...

now, to stay on topic... i would suggest that the top portion of your layout only be about 2/3 as deep (max) as the lower (this is my personal preference) this would allow you to see what is on the lower section, while still having a fairly large upper section.

[chateauricher]

Are there any design guidelines as to the recommended widths for a two level HO-Scale layout?  Which level should be deeper, the top or bottom, or can they both be the same depth?

Also, what is the recommened height between levels for a helix?  I am trying to figure out how many levels I will need.

As someone mentioned before, the upper deck should be a bit narrower than the lower.  The suggested 2/3 is a good idea.  Of course, you can vary the depths as needed.  But I wouldn't make the upper deck deeper than the lower one unless absolutely necessary.

As for the difference between the two decks ...  With my N-scale layout, I will have about 16" from the top of the rails on the lower deck to the top of rails on the upper deck.  With the benchwork of the upper deck being a combination 1x3 dimensional lumber, ¼" plywood and 1" foam, the actual clearance is about 14" (± 2", varies depending on the terrain of the lower deck).

Each full turn of your helix should rise about 4".  To find out how many turns your helix will need, divide the height between the tops of rails by the amount each turn rises.  With a 2% grade and 4" clearance, that makes the circumference of your helix 200" (16'-9"); and a radius of 31.818" (2'-7.818").  That gives the helix a diameter (as measured to center of track) of 63.636" (5'-3.636").  You're now talking major real-estate !  I hope you have room for it.

 

[ericboone]

The club I used to go to when I lived in Michigan had the lower deck nominally at 24" deep and the upper was nominally 18" deep.  This worked well.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

Ray, as others have already said, this is a subjective decision on your part with some math tossed in for good measure .

What are planning for your lower level ? 

Will it have scenery and be operationally part of the upper level or will it serve as only a staging area ?

There are some basic rules one must observe on the helix and your decisions here will help determine the height between decks.

1. What is your maximum grade ?  Most keep this as low as possible with 4% being the generally accepted absolute maximum.
2. Resulting grade is a combination of radius and distance between layers in the helix. These numbers in addition to the difference in elevation will set the # of layers required to move from the lower level to the upper level.

Radius - how much space do you have for your helix?

Distance between layers - for HO scale, most recommendations I have seen are around 3" to 4" with more being better. This distance must take in account any roadbed, track height and the tallest engine or rolling stock that will be on the layout.

I am working on a 2 deck layout.  Here were my druthers and specifics.  These may give you some ideas.

Lower deck is at 38" from floor.  It is all staging.  I am using a swivelling bar stool with a back on it to sit at to operate the staging yard.  I will more than likely use some Christmas light strings to provide lighting on this deck.

Upper deck is 52" from floor or 14" above the lower deck rail-to-rail.  52" puts the upper deck right in the middle of my sternum - it's for me.  The grandkids can sit on my solders or on a step stool .

I have space for a 58" diameter helix.  I set my radius at 24" and distance between layers at 3.9".  This worked out to a 2.6% grade and 3 turns.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

[ClinchValleySD40]

As stated, it can vary depending on what you need.   A good way to test it before design or construction is to take a couple of large pieces of cardboard and hang them from the ceiling with string.   Adjust until you're satisfied.    Some places they might be the same width, others the upper deck might be narrower.  

Good luck.

[jamnest]

Take a look at Jim Providenza's "Santa Cruz Northern" Layout which was featured in the May 1996 issue of Model Railroader.  The article discusses building and operating a double deck layout in HO scale.

Modele Railroader has featured several layout stories regarding successful double deck layouts.  The most recent one that comes to mind is Bruce Chubb's Sunset Valley.

I also have Allen Keller's Great Model Railroads Volume 35 which features the Santa Cruz Northern.  In the video Jim Providenza discusses construction and operation of a double deck layout.

I started construction on a large double deck layout (HO scale), but had to move before completing it, so I not realy sure what works in the long term.  We can all speculate on what might work but it is also nice to hear form those who have been there and done that.

JIM

[sansouci]

Hinge the benches just like in Church pews and then use a long spring (like a fence closing spring) to provide a gentle (or not so gentle) retraction action depending on how much tension you set which is determined by the spring pre-load when extended. In other words, be careful where you put the spring mounting screw on the bench.

Good luck

[NZRMac]

Hinge the benches just like in Church pews and then use a long spring (like a fence closing spring) to provide a gentle (or not so gentle) retraction action depending on how much tension you set which is determined by the spring pre-load when extended. In other words, be careful where you put the spring mounting screw on the bench.

Good luck

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Ken.