first layout is giving me the blues

[Anonymous]

This is my first layout. Im starting to feel frustrated with it because im unsure if i like how its turning out. As i read more post and learn new things i realize how many mistakes i've made along the way. I have used the wrong kind of foam for sub roadbed, my use of 4 % grades, because of limited space, just look a little to steep. Im not concerned much with prototypical things, but it needs to be halfwayz believeble. The track is just tacked on so far, but im getting to point of thinking that i might salvage the track and rip up the subroadbed and start anew. Opinions are welcomed.

My future plans where for a large hill and tunnle in the middle and having the track bridge over in front of the tunnle portal, the reason for the gap, and for a yard on the right hand side of the layout and an industry on the left.

[ARTHILL]

welcome to the club. I never got my first one finished. Too many problems, but I learned. I still use big grades. It limits trains, but with DCC triple heading is fun. Whether this is the time to rip up, is only for you to decide. This forum is full of people who started over a dozen times, and those who pressed on to the end to learn what they could before they started over.

This is for fun, so do what you get fun from.

[tangerine-jack]

That is a hard decision to make, you are not that far along to where you can't rip it up and start over. Do you continue on a course that you are not happy with and hope the end result somehow looks and works like you want? Or do you start over fresh?

I have in the past abandoned projects that weren't shaping up to my satisfaction. I've learned the hard way that the end result will not please me, and I will end up redoing it anyway, only after spending time and money on a disaster.

My suggestion, and it's only a suggestion, is to start over. Go back to the planning board with your new knowledge and redesign the areas you are not happy with now that you see them in 3 dimensions. You will be better for it in the long run.

[Anonymous]

It's the concept that i invisioned but like u said seeing it in 3 dimensions makes me unsure how the final product will look. I have yet to try my hand on scenery, installing a bridge, and wiring switches so maybe its a good idea to try that on this layout then make a decision.

[ondrek]

you really havent made TOO many mistakes. wrong type of foam for sub roadbed? I used the white bead board too and I am having no problems at all with it. 4% grades, no problem, just keep the length shorter.

If you think that the layout may not be what you like when its done, and you are sure you are going to re-start after its finished, then just simplify the layout and keep going. that way you have a practice layout and you can learn and perfect your techniques on it and you wont waste track.

wrong foam, phah, no such thing really. especially the way you did it with foam only under the roadbed. I have the whole table covered with the white bead board.

Kevin

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gilligan0269

This is my first layout. Im starting to feel frustrated with it because im unsure if i like how its turning out. As i read more post and learn new things i realize how many mistakes i've made along the way. I have used the wrong kind of foam for sub roadbed..

Hi Gilligan0269
Looking at your photos it looks like you used the type of stryrofoam used for disposable coolers. That type of foam is not sutible for sculpting land forms, but because it is supported by plywood (I hope it's 1/2" or thicker) and it's covered with plaster, it just might not be a problem. It is doing the job of supporting the track and plaster land form. I say don't worry, be happy. [:)]

QUOTE:
...my use of 4 % grades, because of limited space, just look a little to steep. Im not concerned much with prototypical things, but it needs to be halfwayz believeble.

There's a prototype for everything. A 4% grade is not unheard of on the prototype. The Saluda grade is 4.7 - 5.1% (although it's no longer used since 2001). Many logging railways have steep grades with sharp curves.
You may be limited to the size of the train you can pull, but you're also limited to the length of your longest passing track.

QUOTE:
The track is just tacked on so far, but im getting to point of thinking that i might salvage the track and rip up the subroadbed and start anew. Opinions are welcomed.

In my opinion. If the track is working fine, continue to use this layout as a learning tool. Stay with track nails for now. Don't ballast the track. Track is not easily salvaged if it is glued down. You might break ties or bend rail and thereby wasting money and time.

Use this layout to test and practice different scenery techniques. Plaster and paint is rather inexpensive, but don't spend a lot of money on ground foam. Have fun running trains untill you get board with the layout and have a new plan. Then start over.
Structures can be easily reused. Trees, vehicles and figures too. Just don't use glues that won't disolve in water or peal up easily.

A couple of years ago I started a thread How many layouts have you built and what did you learn from them?

You're not alone, so hang in there. We all been there done that. And we're better modelers for it.

[selector]

If you have concluded that you have made a number of fairly serious errors, you will never be happy with the results, and you will have little joy in slogging on to its completion. Best to regroup, decide what, if anything, can be retained and altered, or get a fresh notepad and start all over again.

-Crandell

[simon1966]

I tend to agree with Crandell, if you are not happy now, don't do anything more until you feel you have the layout running to your satisfaction. Far better to start again now than when you have hours of scenery completed.

[mtrails]

Of the mistakes I had made with my own first layout, if I was ever unhappy with it's appearance, or functionality, it could be easily changed. Well, before scenery was glued down!

When I began the scenery step, I made a small diorama with my scraps, including track, and scenicked the diorama before the layout to get a feel for it.

[jkeaton]

Your layout looks pretty good to me - they always look a bit strange, even crappy, when you're at the roadbed and raw scenery supports stage. The grades are not out of line for a shortline (the famous Wellsville, Addison and Galeton shortline had grades such that an F7 was limited to five or six loaded cars...).

If you are truly unhappy, though, then start over. But, first, if you haven't done scenery before, use the current layout as a training/experiment field. Plaster takes some practice to get "right" - especially since "right" is different for every modeller, depending on how fast they work, what sort of plaster and supports are used, and what final effect you want. I'd choose and do several "scenes" or dioramas on this layout to try out techniques - plaster, plaster over foam, maybe even buy a few small pieces of blue or pink "carveable" foam and try a scene using that. In the meantime you have a line you can run trains on, if you (or your family) enjoy that (I have a toddler and he's much more into watching the train go round than how realistic the scenes are - he've even built me a Duplo tunnel...), and an area to experiment and learn techniques on that, if you make a 'mistake', you can rip up later without worrying about destroying a 'good' layout.

Jim
Ottawa

[Bre2tSco2t]

My nickels worth. I am in the middle on this one. Based on my past experience, I would press on just a little further. Try some other things like mounting under table switch machines etc. Learn as much as you can from this first layout. Then begin again.

I also agree, don’t ballast your entire track. That way you can salvage it and reuse it. However, if you have never put down ballast before, try a section on this layout.

Don’t be discouraged. Model Railroading is supposed to be fun. So, enjoy yourself now, learn some tricks here, and your next one will be better from your efforts now. Also, you can read the entire internet on model railroading but until you try something for yourself, you won’t know what works best for you.

If you want to see what I mean by all this, check out my website. It has pictures from both my first and second layouts.

[Anonymous]

Gilligan - just my two cents but your layout looks fine. What's wrong with a 4% grade? I wouldn't go any steeper but for many, the steep grade dramatizes the scene. As many said, however, if you are truly unhappy, then start again. Otherwise, press on and learn and enjoy! That's the important part!

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the support and thoughts. I think letting it sit for the past couple days and hearing others thoughts and thinking about it a little more helped a bunch. Im not a quitter and i don't think im going to give up on this layout just yet. I have the track design the way i want it and what is layed out functions great, and with a few changes i think i can make the rest of it work. Plus I can't wait to get my hands dirty scenicking

[RMax1]

I have revamped my layout at least a half dozen times. I'm going to do it again soon. My wife wants to move so there is a new opportunity. I make things fairly easy to change. I also work on sections. Trying to complete a section that can be saved is a lot better. I'll see things I want to try and make so changes come about. If you are not happy just keep what you like and change what you don't.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

I think it looks pretty darn good for a first layout! I like the idea of using this first layout to experience some scenery experimenting. It's all about perspective. Think of the first layout as the training ground for the various aspects of modeling and enjoy yourself. Very few of us every hit it just right on our first layout (second or third too for that matter!). Think of it as a process rather than an event!

[Texas Zepher]

I don't know. That doesn't look too bad to me. I used the white bubbly foam for a while because I got a bunch for cheap (ie. free). Also a 4% grade isn't as bad on a model railroad as it would be on the prototype. But if you are really disapointed with it, it doesn't look like you are so far along that it is really going to cost. I mean when you start taking about changing things once the scenery gets established, as in the photo below, that is when it really hurts..

[dickencr]

You NEVER stop starting over. That's life. The advice from the forum is excellent. The main thing is to have fun. Stop judging your "FIRST" attempt against the photos in Model Railroader or other magazines. We all have the vision that our first layout is perfect and will be the cover shot on a national magazine. The reality is that those folk had a fisrt and second and.. layout too. You're no different than anyone else. Take a step back and re-visualize the project. Take a second look and make some changes. Keep experimenting, keep trying new things. And RELAX... this is a hobby.. not a job!

Have some fun with the Mountain Goat and Go No Where Railroad... Keep Smiling...

Cheers...

[tomikawaTT]

As others have said, 4% is not excessive - especially on a model railroad that isn't big enough to run long trains.

In the US, Pennsy had the famous Madison Grade - 5%. Southern had Saluda, which was even steeper. The Cumbres and Toltec (ex D&RGW) climbs out of Chama, NM, on a 4% grade. That's just a quick list off the top of my head.

My coal hauling short line climbs a continuous, uncompensated 4%, which requires doubleheading all but the shortest trains upgrade - a good excuse for having lots of locomotives. At the moment it, and its mainline connection, are: 1. Largely temporary track on temporary roadbed. 2. Totally devoid of anything that resembles scenery. 3. Seriously ugly.

From my previous experience (close to 60 years,) I'm comfortable with that state of affairs, because I know it will change. (Will it improve? GOOD question!)

Chuck

[wjstix]

Main thing is to treat it as a "first draft", you'll probably build many layouts over the years. I'm just getting ready to move and will be starting my...well at least 6th or 7th layout.

[nik_n_dad]

We're (hopefully) going to finish up our first layout within the monh or so (time and money, time and money....). My son and I are already planning and talking abot "the next layout".

Why?

The one we have is awful. Maybe not awful, but it was my first time building a layout, and my son was almost 6 when we started. We've learned alot (and he's gotten older and can help more now). We aren't happy with the track layout, the dimensions (we used a hollow-core dorr for the base, which can be great, but you can do so much more if you only had 4" more on the width). We aren't happy with where we put the town, the mountains, the tunnels, the lake, etc.

So why are we still working on it?

Becuase as we haven't finished one, so we (ok, mom) thought it's best to go though the whole cycle before we start the "dream layout". That way we have one to play with, and one to really think about and work on...and I suspect it will go much faster since we've learned all sorts of things through this site and just getting our hands dirty.

Are we as meticulous as when we first started? Nope. We jsut want to fini***his one.

So my advice.... keep working on the one you have (but get to the piint you're running trains as soon as possible)....have fun, don't get burned out, and learn..... then make the one you do next year stellar.

[Anonymous]

if you like your trackplan, and it is working for you, then you have gotten the hard part out of the way. a layout with bad track gets boring pretty quick.

if you are going to use this one as a practice layout, then i suggest you make your buildings, and labor intensive scenery (trees, bridges, etc.) removeable or at least salvageable. you are going to be mighty proud of some of your work and may want to carry it over to your newer and better layout.

as the volume of your good stuff grows, larger and more complicated layouts become easier because a lot of the high quality work has already been done.

from what i see, you're off to a fine start. keep going and keep building. as your experience grows, so will the quality of your work. do not stifle yourself at this stage of construction, keep moving forward.