Ballast Problem

[topcopdoc]

I am using Woodland Scenics ballast and cinders for the train yard. I made a wetting solution of water, white glue, and a few drops of liquid detergent. I made up a 50/50 water/glue solution.

The results are not good since most of the ballast and ciders can be easily brushed off even after 24 hrs of drying. I will try with another application of glue to the track but the large area of the yard where the cinders are is another thing. I tried spraying with the glue mixture but can’t get atomizer bottles to spray without clogging.

Brushing off all the cinders and starting again is not an option. Has anyone faced this problem before?

Doc

[nbrodar]

Sounds like not enough glue. I spray the ballast with wet water (water, dish soap, and alcohol) first. Then flood the ballast with 50/50 water & white glue from a mustard bottle. I've found that a spray bottle just doesn't lay down enough glue to hold the ballast.

Nick

[jhugart]

When I've done ballasting, here's what I've done:

Tack the track in place, apply ballast so it looks right.

Spray the air above the ballasted track with a bottle of water with a drop or two of hand dishwashing liquid mixed in it. (Not hand soap, not dishwashing machine liquid.) You want things pretty wet, but don't spray the ballast directly.

Take some white glue or wood glue and cut it with an equal amount of water, and mix it well. Use an eye dropper to flow the glue mix onto the ballast. Do not drop the glue mix from a height. You do want this glue mix to saturate the ballast. With white glue, it will look like a massive milk spill.

Let it dry overnight, then see what you get.

[rrinker]

I have fairly hard water. I was never able to make the glue/water/detergant mix work out, it always puddled up. What I found worked best was taking 70% isopropyl alcohol (meaning, the stuff that's labeled 70%) and mixing it about 50/50 with the white glue. It flowed right in around the Woodland Scenics ballast with no puddlign problems. A side benefit was that the leftovers in the cup stayed liquid enough to be used for a day or so after I mixed it, so if you have to quit and pick up the next day you can continue to use the same solution. I mixed it in a paper cup just so I could throw it away when finished rather than try to rinse out a permanent cup or bowl.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

http://tukaram.net/ballast.htm
That is how I did my ballast.

Basically I put a thin line of undiluted glue along the edge of the foam roadbed. Put a little ballast along the glue (glue will hold it in place while still wet.) Then put ballast lightly over the track. Clean ballast off the rails.

Spray the whole thing with wet water. Then use a bottle of 70% water, 30% glue (or whatever ratio you like) I use a hair dye bottle instead of an eyedropper. I put on quite a bit of the watered down glue. You want it to soak all the way in but not run off and make a mess. (I think a mustard bottle will be next...it holds a lot more)

Once it dries (I leave it overnight usually) The whole thing is rock solid. Virtually none of it will brush off when I clean up the area. So far I have had very good luck with this. I will do a 4 or 5 foot section in a couple minutes.

[topcopdoc]

Thanks guys,

The glue mixture soaked into the yard base and did not leave enough to hold the cinders. I finally sprayed a thin stream of glue mixture from a hair dye bottle and was able to recover the cinders. The next time I will use more glue in the mixture when covering large open yard spaces.

Doc

[MisterBeasley]

I use a pipette that I got from an LHS to put on the glue. I use about a 50/50 mixture of Elmers and water, after the standard wet-water (dish detergent) spray. The pipette lets me put the glue on accurately, and I don't have flow problems. The pipette is like an eyedropper, but with a bigger bulb. I think they came in a package of 8 for about $2. (The other 7 are still in the box. I just rinse and re-use the first one.) I do use lots of glue.

Also, I find that it takes 2 or 3 days to really set up and dry, and after only 24 hours the top ballast will still flake off easily, but once it is fully set it's OK.

[colvinbackshop]

Yup! Sounds like the glue mixture isn't penetrating the ballast. Be sure to wet the ballast first, then apply the glue!
Here is how I do mine and it has worked very well.
First a line of Elmer's White Glue is put down and evened out with a small brush, then the ballast is put in place evening it out with a dry 1" paint brush. Once I have the ballast where I want it, and off the ties and rail sides (tapping the track with the handle of a screw driver...or what ever) it's time to move on to securing the ballast in place.
At this point the ballast is wetted (I use a small spray bottle) with a mix of about 1/3 water and 2/3's 70% alcohol...Immediately followed with a mix of 1/2 white glue, 1/4 water and 1/4 alcohol. Seldom, if ever, do I have to come back and re-do, but spots do get missed every now and again.

[bpickering]

QUOTE: Originally posted by topcopdoc
The glue mixture soaked into the yard base ...

Did you paint the yard, or otherwise seal it, prior to laying the track and ballasting? It sounds like the glue may just be going past the ballast and soaking into the sub-roadbed.

Depending on what your sub-roadbed is, this might be useful (in the future, of course, since you probably don't want to pull up all the trick.

Brian Pickering

[olequa]

I've recently discovered that about an 18:1 mixture of alcohol/matte medium can be applied directly to ballast with no prewetting. Applied with an eye dropper, it soaks right in without disturbing the ballast grains. And it dries down flat and strong. So that's my technique from now on.

george

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

...I have fairly hard water. I was never able to make the glue/water/detergant mix work out, it always puddled up. ... --Randy

I think Randy is on to something here. Maybe you have hard water. Get a gallon jug of Distilled water. And use alcohol like suggested.

[mtrails]

My thoughts exactly... using distilled water.

Whether you use 50/50 Elmers/Water, or Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement, after wetting the ballast, I immediately begin gluing, by spraying it from a spray bottle, from about 6" above the tracks, at a 45 degree angle while moving the bottle down the tracks (not just holding the bottle still, and pulling the trigger). I spray the glue, until the ballast is soaked with glue, but not flooded. I wait about an hour, and repeat spraying the glue, this time until the glue floods to the top of the ballast. 24 hours later, you can scratch the ballast with your fingernail, and won't disturb it.