I've been working on the track plan!

[rrinker]

Where the rest of the layout connects to the existing 8x12 - all my drawing til now have had the side gainst the wall nearest the window be the one that drops down to the hidden staging underneath. I got to thinking, always dangerous, why not make the front side drop down, that way I can scenic a good portion of it and cut downt he hidden track. After a bit of fiddlign around I think I have an idea of what I'm goign for. To the right of this shot, the near track continues to rise to connect to the front fo the 8x12. Hidden after the lower track enters the tunnel, there is a shallow S curve (> 5' radius plus a foot long straight section) that brings the lower hidden track into alignment with the upper track. Thoughts?
The full plan on my web site right now is already out of date, I saved that one after I reversed the main yard to put the yard lead at the bottom, but before I swapped which track is the main and which track is staging. Also - now I have to figure out where to putt he turntable and roundhouse. The old location, inside the curve of the yard lead, won't work because of the branch line coming down through the middle of the room. A turntable and roundhouse will fit, but then it leaves only a foot or less to squeeze past, not workable.

[rolleiman]

I would like to see where your plan stands now before I make any comments.. Having not followed you through the planning stages, I'm having a hard time picturing where you are at..

Jeff
[:D]

[selector]

Sorry, Randy, but I agree. I'm pretty fuzzy on it at this stage, so I would like to see it all as one design.

[rrinker]

OK, I posted the latest version of the full plan on my site.

http://www.readingeastpenn.com/images/trackplan/newplan91805a.pdf

It's also on the track plan page of my site, along with the picture from above. I removed the scenery section from the full plan so as to not hide the tracks, but the area of that picture is the bottom center.

--Randy

[dehusman]

That ought to work.

Dave H.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

OK, I posted the latest version of the full plan on my site.

http://www.readingeastpenn.com/images/trackplan/newplan91805a.pdf

It's also on the track plan page of my site, along with the picture from above. I removed the scenery section from the full plan so as to not hide the tracks, but the area of that picture is the bottom center.

--Randy

Okay, Now I can see what you changed.. Good idea.. I can tell you from personal experience that having a track hidden behind another as your staging entrance was, is nothing but a pain in the rear end. Removable scenery is always going to get banged up and no matter how much space you think you've left yourself, there'll be something you can't get to.


Re your turntable and roundhouse.. I can also tell you from experience, that the best place to put a roundhouse is in a corner.. I'm not sure where you were planning on putting it or how big but your 'druthers' page suggests you want quite a large one.. Further experience tells me that in general, they are a waste of space and unless you are running a lot of steam power, really not necassary.. That isn't to say I don't like the idea, I would love to have a 130' turntable with about a 15-20 stall roundhouse..

If I could make a suggestion... Why not 86 the turntable and bring your turnaround loop down to where the branchline ends. Run the branchline Inside the loop on some grades.. That would add, if I'm reading your diargram properly, about 20 feet to your mainline run.. Then just bring an engine service facility off of the switching lead or one of your passing sidings near the yard.. -OR- Leave the loop where it is, if you are dead set on the turntable, shorten the branchline a little bit and and bring your engine service lead off of the mainline by where your yard track ends (at the bottom of the page), leaving enough room to get between the branch benchwork and the turntable benchwork... about where the little yard on the branch ends.. I've seen a lot of videos where the motive power has to go someplace else down the line to reach the service facilities.. Just a couple thoughts..

Good luck,
Jeff
[8D]

[rrinker]

It seemed so obvious when the light bulb lit up, that I've been thinking there has to be a catch, something I'm missing, but it does seem to all work out.

I'm still working out the details of the grade though. The original idea had 3% down to staging, everything I run can easily handle a 3% grade with a typical train. That still didn't get me enough clearance for the upper deck, so I added a 2% up on the main for an additional 4" of clearance. I mocked it up with boxes and it should work - lower level track at 41", upper level at 52", figuring 2" foam and 1x3 framework, that gives me 6 1/2-7" over the hidden tracks at a crossmember, more in the joist spaces, to reach in if need be (I was planning to make the fascia removable).
However, changing the arrangment has thrown that off a bit. The staging yard can't project further to the top, otherwise there are clearance issues at the pinch point. With a reasonable space from the edge of the track, it's about 28", for a very short distance. I can live with that, it's not an operating spot anyway. But any less won't work. On the other hand, I didn't want to continue a 3% grade on an S curve, even a gentle one, so I left that section level. That makes the grade on either side exceed 3%. I could start the grade eariler, but it would be in the middle of a curve - again not desireable. I could extend it through the curve at the lower right, but then there's very little transition room before it hits the first switch in the staging yard. Am I crazy to think that maybe continuing the grade through the S curve won't be an operation problem?

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

OK, I posted the latest version of the full plan on my site.

http://www.readingeastpenn.com/images/trackplan/newplan91805a.pdf

It's also on the track plan page of my site, along with the picture from above. I removed the scenery section from the full plan so as to not hide the tracks, but the area of that picture is the bottom center.

--Randy

Okay, Now I can see what you changed.. Good idea.. I can tell you from personal experience that having a track hidden behind another as your staging entrance was, is nothing but a pain in the rear end. Removable scenery is always going to get banged up and no matter how much space you think you've left yourself, there'll be something you can't get to.


Re your turntable and roundhouse.. I can also tell you from experience, that the best place to put a roundhouse is in a corner.. I'm not sure where you were planning on putting it or how big but your 'druthers' page suggests you want quite a large one.. Further experience tells me that in general, they are a waste of space and unless you are running a lot of steam power, really not necassary.. That isn't to say I don't like the idea, I would love to have a 130' turntable with about a 15-20 stall roundhouse..

If I could make a suggestion... Why not 86 the turntable and bring your turnaround loop down to where the branchline ends. Run the branchline Inside the loop on some grades.. That would add, if I'm reading your diargram properly, about 20 feet to your mainline run.. Then just bring an engine service facility off of the switching lead or one of your passing sidings near the yard.. -OR- Leave the loop where it is, if you are dead set on the turntable, shorten the branchline a little bit and and bring your engine service lead off of the mainline by where your yard track ends (at the bottom of the page), leaving enough room to get between the branch benchwork and the turntable benchwork... about where the little yard on the branch ends.. I've seen a lot of videos where the motive power has to go someplace else down the line to reach the service facilities.. Just a couple thoughts..

Good luck,
Jeff
[8D]

I actually did draw a version where I had the loop come down where the branch is - the problem is that section of the room is quite narrow and to have 4 tracks int hat area, with a scenic divider between them, left too little room for aisles on either side. Now if I could extend the whole front of my house out 2' (the right side in the drawings) complete with corresponding basement enlargement... [}:)]
The original idea was for the servicing area to be inside the lower right curve, until the suggestion of the branch line or more switching. I guess have to figure out which I want more. The biggest steam loco I (will) have is a T-1 4-8-4, so I don't NEED a 130' table.

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

Wow! It's shaping up nicely. what does your father-in-law think? Or are you waiting until you're done to spring it on him?

I have a couple concerns seemingly unrelated to the ongoing conversation. The first is easy. Is the yard lead long enough? It doesn't look like it can handle the longest yard track.

How do you see yourself operating in the branch line? It seems like one way or the other your going to spend a lot of track pushing your train. That in itself doesn't bother me as much as not being able to turn your loco around. How are you going to handle it?

[selector]

Not discounting in any way the thoughtful advice offered by Jeff (very good!), I think you are down to the very short strokes here, if you will excuse my analogy. All I would do, if it were me, and if could relocate your 'quarry', even if slightly, is to place your table and house at that track end. If, as Jeff urges you to reconsider, you reeaaally need/want that facility on your layout. I'm sure you have long-since known that the house needs to be angled so that you can nearly look into it..or what's the point, so Jeff's notion of where it should go is sensible. My suggestion does that.

Thank God that Chip has kept you plied with feedback. I hope you're on line when I submit my plans, Chip.

Regardless of what you end up doing, Randy, I really like what you have presented lately. With some creative scenery, you will derive a great deal of pleasure out of this plan. Now, if can must muster the same self-discipline when I do my next layout...you know, the one I said I would never build?

BTW, where's the T-1?

[:D]

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Wow! It's shaping up nicely. what does your father-in-law think? Or are you waiting until you're done to spring it on him?

I have a couple concerns seemingly unrelated to the ongoing conversation. The first is easy. Is the yard lead long enough? It doesn't look like it can handle the longest yard track.

How do you see yourself operating in the branch line? It seems like one way or the other your going to spend a lot of track pushing your train. That in itself doesn't bother me as much as not being able to turn your loco around. How are you going to handle it?

Other than mentioning the flip-flop on the tracks off the 8x12, I haven't shown him the complete plan yet.
Appearances can be deceiving - according to the track lengths shown in 3rd PlanIt, that yard lead is more than a foot longer than the longest track in yard. I do still need a caboose track though.
As for the branch - notice the runaround at the end. I have to do a little more research on how they realy operated the branch - since it has no turning facilities. These days it's run with 2 units back to back, so they just run around the train and switch lead units to be facing forward. It wouldn't be out of place to run a single unit backwards - crews don't like it too much, but they do it.

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector



BTW, where's the T-1?

[:D]

Only PCM knows right now. SUPPOSEDLY shipping in October. Mine's ordered already.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I actually did draw a version where I had the loop come down where the branch is - the problem is that section of the room is quite narrow and to have 4 tracks int hat area, with a scenic divider between them, left too little room for aisles on either side. Now if I could extend the whole front of my house out 2' (the right side in the drawings) complete with corresponding basement enlargement... [}:)]
The original idea was for the servicing area to be inside the lower right curve, until the suggestion of the branch line or more switching. I guess have to figure out which I want more. The biggest steam loco I (will) have is a T-1 4-8-4, so I don't NEED a 130' table.

--Randy

It did look like it might be a bit of a squeeze especially with a 30" min radius, just making suggestions... None of my track plans, as drawn, ever survives the first spike. They are more of a reference as to what May fit. Even the one I did a couple weeks ago for an extension on my layout got all changed up when I started playing with actual track and buildings. Then again, I use a cad (AutoCad) program that just draws lines, not full outlines of track.. My basement has a 4x8 foot indentation in it that keeps it from being rectangular.. everytime I look at it I wonder what rear end they pulled this design out of (in 1949)..

What does a T-1 measure in HO scale? 15 or 16 inches? I think my Wabash O-1 4-8-4s are 16" which is why I had originally gone with the 130' turntable.. That and somewhere in my collection I have a UP Big Boy.. The turntable is gone now, any steamer that needs to be turned will be the 050 method (not my preferred way) for now. I may put one in at some later date though.. When I have the 2000 sq foot space with no poles, no obstructions..... [;)] ... it still won't be enough.

What software are you using to draw your plan??

Jeff
[8D]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker
[br As for the branch - notice the runaround at the end. I have to do a little more research on how they realy operated the branch - since it has no turning facilities. These days it's run with 2 units back to back, so they just run around the train and switch lead units to be facing forward. It wouldn't be out of place to run a single unit backwards - crews don't like it too much, but they do it.

--Randy

I had the feeling it might be something like that. I actually though you would be doing using the runaround further up the branchline as using the one in the mini-yard ties up two tracks. I can see the double heading, but will the train leave the branch and go out on the main. It seems a little bit of a stretch to run the loco backwards that far.

[rrinker]

I'm pretty sure that's how they did it for real, unless they double-headed every branch job. The branch job was called from Reading yard, which is in the same relative location as the yard in my plan. They ran either forward or backwards to Aburtis and up the branch, and returned the opposite way. I'm REALLY surious now what they did in steam days, perhaps ran all the way into Catassaqua where there may be turning facilities, but I'm not modelling up that far.

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I actually did draw a version where I had the loop come down where the branch is - the problem is that section of the room is quite narrow and to have 4 tracks int hat area, with a scenic divider between them, left too little room for aisles on either side. Now if I could extend the whole front of my house out 2' (the right side in the drawings) complete with corresponding basement enlargement... [}:)]
The original idea was for the servicing area to be inside the lower right curve, until the suggestion of the branch line or more switching. I guess have to figure out which I want more. The biggest steam loco I (will) have is a T-1 4-8-4, so I don't NEED a 130' table.

--Randy

It did look like it might be a bit of a squeeze especially with a 30" min radius, just making suggestions... None of my track plans, as drawn, ever survives the first spike. They are more of a reference as to what May fit. Even the one I did a couple weeks ago for an extension on my layout got all changed up when I started playing with actual track and buildings. Then again, I use a cad (AutoCad) program that just draws lines, not full outlines of track.. My basement has a 4x8 foot indentation in it that keeps it from being rectangular.. everytime I look at it I wonder what rear end they pulled this design out of (in 1949)..

What does a T-1 measure in HO scale? 15 or 16 inches? I think my Wabash O-1 4-8-4s are 16" which is why I had originally gone with the 130' turntable.. That and somewhere in my collection I have a UP Big Boy.. The turntable is gone now, any steamer that needs to be turned will be the 050 method (not my preferred way) for now. I may put one in at some later date though.. When I have the 2000 sq foot space with no poles, no obstructions..... [;)] ... it still won't be enough.

What software are you using to draw your plan??

Jeff
[8D]

No problem, I like suggestions. There's a few room-sharing things I left off when I printed the plan to a PDF, mainly some storage cabinets and a freezer. They are on the overall plan though, so I've left room around them. But that make some of what appears to be open space not so open, mainly between the right side of the 8x12 and the branch line coming down.
Not sure how big a T-1 is, all my reference books are downstairs. I know even witht he logn tender it's not as big as a Big Boy, and a Big Boy fits on a 130 foot table, barely. Still, the difference in real inches between HO 130 feet and HO 120 feet isn't all that much, and Walthers has that nice nifty ready to go 130 footer. And the nice modern roundhouse to go with it.
Were it not for the already finished part, I'd have about 2000 sq ft with all the obstructions and stairway conveniently located in the middle. But I can't touch the finished area, so it's only a pipe dream right now.
I draw the plan with 3rd PlanIt.

--Randy