Switching to DCC

[Anonymous]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my layout and would like to switch over to DCC. As I've been out of the hobby for many years, a lot of things have changed. At present, I have several Athern and a couple Atlas engines that are not set up for DCC. Can someone recommend a system that is "user friendly" and an approx. cost for that system. I'm no electrical engineer, but do have some basic knowledge. There's an ad on the back cover of Oct. MR for a Prodigy Advance System by MRC that sounds good, but then they all do.

[tstage]

Shaker,

First of all, welcome to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]

The older Athearn and Atlas trains can, more than likely, be converted over to DCC. Not knowing exactly which ones you have, it may take a small amount of effort (e.g. isolating the motor from the frame) to make them DCC-ready.

Here's a couple of suggestions for systems. Look at the Digitrax Zephyr ($150-$160, discounted) and CVP Easy DCC ($229). Both are starter sets and easily expandible as your needs/layout get bigger. The both also offer wireless systems, if you should desire that now or someday down the road.

Here are some direct links for the systems so you can see what they have to offer:

Digitrax Zephyr
http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com/DCC%20Page.htm
http://www.tonystrains.com/products/digitrax_stsets.htm

CVP EasyDCC
http://www.cvpusa.com/

The NCE PowerCab might also be a good starter system to consider (Reg. $180 - $140, discounted):
http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com/DCC%20Page.htm (same page as Zephyr on the ENM site)

The downside is that the new PowerCab only comes with 1-amp of max. output. The upside is that a 3-amp booster can be easily added for about $70.

Hope that's a help...

Tom

[Anonymous]

If you don't plan to run more than 10 locos, the Digitrax Zephyr is your choice, hands down. It will 10 plus two more on it's two jump ports, for a total of 12. The 2 jump ports are ports that allow you to use standard DC power packs as throttles. The Zephyr is the ONLY starter system available that has the ability to interface with your PC for programming and operations. It is completely upgradable using Digitrax's Loconet system. If you're building a small railroad, or even a large one but only plan to run 12 total or less locos, the Zephyr might be it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shaker

I'm in the process of rebuilding my layout and would like to switch over to DCC. As I've been out of the hobby for many years, a lot of things have changed. At present, I have several Athern and a couple Atlas engines that are not set up for DCC. Can someone recommend a system that is "user friendly" and an approx. cost for that system. I'm no electrical engineer, but do have some basic knowledge. There's an ad on the back cover of Oct. MR for a Prodigy Advance System by MRC that sounds good, but then they all do.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay
The Zephyr is the ONLY starter system available that has the ability to interface with your PC for programming and operations.

Sorry, On30Shay, not entirely true. The EasyDCC system also has an RG-232 connector so that you can interface your PC with it. See the "CS2B Command Station Flyer".pdf file link at the bottom of the EasyDCC page of CVP's web site (http://www.cvpusa.com)

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay
The Zephyr is the ONLY starter system available that has the ability to interface with your PC for programming and operations.

Sorry, On30Shay, not entirely true. The EasyDCC system also has an RG-232 connector so that you can interface your PC with it. See the "CS2B Command Station Flyer".pdf file link at the bottom of the EasyDCC page of CVP's web site (http://www.cvpusa.com)

Tom

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on Digitrax being the ONLY system to do (insert your favorite thing). A few months back it was the only system which allowed you to run an analog locomotive too (in fact ALL the systems do that). Somebody is telling tall tails when they sell Digitrax. And Digitrax is a good enough system that such (******) is not necessary.

[rrinker]

Right now, the only systems that do not have a computer connection are the various MRC systems, and the Bachmann. BUT far from all allow running analog locomotive on address 00. NCE is a big one that doesn't.
The Zephyr IS the only one currently that lets you hook up analog power packs for two extra throttles.

--Randy

[cccpro]

I am also looking at DCC. When you say "plan to run more than 10 locos" do you mean progammed to run or actually running at once. I can't see more than 3-4 running at once on my layout but I will have more than 10 ready to run. I am leaning hard to the Zephyr for my N-Scale layout. Thanks for the info and help.

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

If you don't plan to run more than 10 locos, the Digitrax Zephyr is your choice, hands down. It will 10 plus two more on it's two jump ports, for a total of 12. The 2 jump ports are ports that allow you to use standard DC power packs as throttles. The Zephyr is the ONLY starter system available that has the ability to interface with your PC for programming and operations. It is completely upgradable using Digitrax's Loconet system. If you're building a small railroad, or even a large one but only plan to run 12 total or less locos, the Zephyr might be it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Shaker

I'm in the process of rebuilding my layout and would like to switch over to DCC. As I've been out of the hobby for many years, a lot of things have changed. At present, I have several Athern and a couple Atlas engines that are not set up for DCC. Can someone recommend a system that is "user friendly" and an approx. cost for that system. I'm no electrical engineer, but do have some basic knowledge. There's an ad on the back cover of Oct. MR for a Prodigy Advance System by MRC that sounds good, but then they all do.

[rrinker]

That's 10 running at the same time. You can have an almost infinite number of locomotives. The Zephyr for example can control up to 10 at a time, although there might not be enough power for that many - in N scale you probably could, since I've managed to run 8 HO locos with mine at the same time. Right now I have a max of 2 people running trains at the same time, so a limit of 10 locos at one time isn't a problem. With a larger layout and a half-dozen or more operators, I'd nee a bigger system. If I get to that point, I can just add on and keep using my Zephyr as part of the complete system.

--Randy

[MisterBeasley]

You need to consider both, to some extent. The programming for each individual decoder resides in the decoder itself, not in the control system, so that is not a concern. The control system does hold the "last state" and address of a number of locomotives, which varies from system to system. I think my Lenz-100 holds 256. Then, there is the hand-held controller, which contains a "stack" of locomotive addresses. This may be the most severe limit, but you only really need the ones that are active. However, it may be annoying to have to remove and add locos to the stack on the hand-held if that number is too small. (It's only a few keystrokes, but it's far easier if you can just scroll through the stack to select your engine.)

You also need to understand that multi-unit consists will take up some of these addresses, as would a turntable if you put a controller on that. I don't have any "static decoders" for switch machines and signals, but that's something else to think about.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Go out and check the various systems and see which one fits your needs the best. Asking on any forum is not the way to get good information that you'll need for your needs.

[rrinker]

And check each manufacturer's site for FULL information. I just looked at Tony's system comparison chart and it is definitely wrong on the Zephyr. To read Tony's chart, you would think the Zephyr can only do old-style consisting by having all the locos have the same address. Not true, the Zephyr handles all 3 types of consisting same as any other Digitrax system and most other brands. And it also says the Zephyr cannot do direct-mode programming, but it does. Zephyr can program Register, Paged, or Direct, plus Ops Mode.
The consisting issue is why I had to write my letter to MR after the DCC Corner article on consisting.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Dcc is marvelous and each system has its proponents and detractors as seen above. There are some other conciderations to be aware of. Your Athearn and Atlas engines can be converted to DCC with decoders at about $20 an engine plus a little soldering and added components, or just buy new at a $50 to $100 premium over a DC engine.
Also pickup your computer and move it to the train room to program your decoders, or buy a laptop for $800 to $1500, and don't let the kid or spouse make off with it for school or other things.
Do not misread this as a criticism of DCC, just a more complete look at what is involved in this excursion. The hobby may have replaced yachting as the hole in the ocean that you keep throwing money into. The flexibility on a larger more complex layout compensates for a large amount of the cost in simplified layout wiring, more reliable operation and a new hobby... decoder programing and trouble shooting.
[2c]
Will ... ranting on again!

[ereimer]

i'd like to clarify 1 point about computer interfacing . only the CVP easydcc system has the interface built in (rs-232) . the other systems (including the zephyr) all require you to buy an interface as a seperate part

edit : except the MRC prodigy advance system and the bachmann system , which have no way to add a computer interface at all

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overdurff


Also pickup your computer and move it to the train room to program your decoders, or buy a laptop for $800 to $1500, and don't let the kid or spouse make off with it for school or other things.

Will, I've been running DCC (NCE) for years and have never needed a computer to program anything DCC-related. The NCE "T-Bone" hand helds work fine for programming decoders. No need to add a computer.

Shaker, if you like working with computers, you may use one to program decoders, but it's certainly not necessary.

Jon

[trollw]

QUOTE: Also pickup your computer and move it to the train room to program your decoders, or buy a laptop for $800 to $1500, and don't let the kid or spouse make off with it for school or other things.

While having a PC makes it easier to program the speed curves for a particular engine, it is NOT REQUIRED to program the decoders or to use DCC to control your layout.

[Anonymous]

Which systems allow you to both read and write CVs?
Take a look at both Tony's Train Exchange and Litchfield Station for excellent information and pricing plus comparisons of the different systems and decoders.
Will

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overdurff


Also pickup your computer and move it to the train room to program your decoders, or buy a laptop for $800 to $1500, and don't let the kid or spouse make off with it for school or other things.

Will, I've been running DCC (NCE) for years and have never needed a computer to program anything DCC-related. The NCE "T-Bone" hand helds work fine for programming decoders. No need to add a computer.

Shaker, if you like working with computers, you may use one to program decoders, but it's certainly not necessary.

Jon

Since all you need is a cable to plug in, give JMRI a try and see if you still feel the same way. DecoderPro is AWESOME. I don;t have any problem programming from my Digitrax system, either (and supposedly it's so complicated that it's impossible - beats me, punch in the CV you want to program, punch in the value you want - dunno how much easier it could be), but DecoderPro is super helpful - just keeping a database of all your locos is worthwhile, then there's the easy of setting speed tables, and, as they work on the next version, sound programming.

--Randy

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overdurff

Which systems allow you to both read and write CVs?
Take a look at both Tony's Train Exchange and Litchfield Station for excellent information and pricing plus comparisons of the different systems and decoders.
Will

PA, PE, Zephyr, Super Chief, NCE, Lenz, and Easy-DCC all allow CV read and write. Bachmann and the Super Empire Builder do not. Digitrax needs to stop selling the SEB as a complete set, it's a great package upgrade to add an additional throttle and booster to a Zephyr or Chief but is behind the times for a complete system.

--Randy

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley

Go out and check the various systems and see which one fits your needs the best. Asking on any forum is not the way to get good information that you'll need for your needs.

I strongly, but respectufully, disagree! I agree that an individual will have to decide for himself what system will meet his needs. But to say that no one on this or any other forum can offer helpful information is just not accurate. Everyone has opinions, and on this forum, opinions are given cheerfully and shared. Someone asking a question knows, or soon learns, that there are almost as many opinions as there are members.

I do not operate DCC yet (have used it, but don't have it at home), and I read the DCC threads to learn. I am learning a lot just from reading. And I know that when I make the leap to DCC, there will be plenty of people here to answer my questions. Very comforting when you have an expensive decision to make.

You are right in that one person's pleasure can be another's agony. Just because a system fits my needs doesn't mean it will meet the needs of the next person. It will forever be a personal decision for the individual. Anyone who hasn't done his homework is almost surely going to be disappointed. And this forum is a great place at which to start your homework.

Darrell, respectfully quiet...for now

[Anonymous]

I buy all of my Digitrax stuff from Gadget Tom at www.gadgettom.com .

He has the best prices that I have found on DCC stuff, well, at least the Digitrax stuff.

I agree with those saying to get the Zephyr. I originally had an MRC Prodigy Advance, which caused me nothing but trouble (probably my fault, though). I switched to the Zephyr and 6 months later, I still love it. I have an 8x8 layout currently, and will be adding a 19x10 expansion this winter, so knowing that I can just get UP-5 panels to hook throttles into, and epxand the power if necessary gave me a high level of confindence with Digitrax.

If you're going to be needing to run more than 5 or 6 HO scale locos at a time, I would suggest getting the Super Chief start up set from Digitrax - it's a 5 amp unit , as opposed to the 3 amp unit of the Zephyr, so you can run more trains. The Super Chief's booster has all of the functionality of the Zephyr's booster, where the Empire Builder does not. I believe the Super Chief runs about $340, the Empire Builder runs about $255 and the Zephyr is about $150. There is a nice little explanation of the different Digitrax systems as well as a "decision making" process helper on Gadget Tom's site. Check it out if you are interested.

[MisterBeasley]

If you have a chance to actually try any of these, pay particular attention to the hand-held controllers. Each of these is different, and some manufacturers support multiple hand-helds. In general, though, hand-helds are NOT compatable between manufacturers.

It's the hand-held that you will deal with the most. Make sure you are comfortable with it. Some have rotary dials and some have all pushbuttons. All have a display of some sort, too. And with that said, I'll tell you that if I'd had the choice when I bought my Lenz-100 system, I would have taken the hand-held from the Lenz-90. As I've quickly realized after adding on one of the Lenz-90 controllers, that would have been the wrong thing to do. The all-pushbutton controller from the 100 system is far more capable, and I've quickly gotten used to the buttons over the dial for speed control.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley

Go out and check the various systems and see which one fits your needs the best. Asking on any forum is not the way to get good information that you'll need for your needs.

I strongly, but respectufully, disagree! I agree that an individual will have to decide for himself what system will meet his needs. But to say that no one on this or any other forum can offer helpful information is just not accurate. Everyone has opinions, and on this forum, opinions are given cheerfully and shared. Someone asking a question knows, or soon learns, that there are almost as many opinions as there are members.

I do not operate DCC yet (have used it, but don't have it at home), and I read the DCC threads to learn. I am learning a lot just from reading. And I know that when I make the leap to DCC, there will be plenty of people here to answer my questions. Very comforting when you have an expensive decision to make.

You are right in that one person's pleasure can be another's agony. Just because a system fits my needs doesn't mean it will meet the needs of the next person. It will forever be a personal decision for the individual. Anyone who hasn't done his homework is almost surely going to be disappointed. And this forum is a great place at which to start your homework.

Darrell, respectfully quiet...for now

You can get a lot of information from this forum, BUT you need to hold the hardware in your hand to see which system feels right to you. The forum is great for the "book learnin'", but you need some hands on before you buy.

Cheers,

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ebriley
You can get a lot of information from this forum, BUT you need to hold the hardware in your hand to see which system feels right to you. The forum is great for the "book learnin'", but you need some hands on before you buy.

Hands on isn't watching some LHS salesman show you either. I watched for over an hour as a LHS person show us all the features of three systems. I didn't learn a thing.

Our club studied, researched, trialed, debated for over a year. We finally decided just to go buy one. If we eventually didn't like it we would just switch at a later time. It isn't like these things cost a lot anymore. Our first command control system cost about $1200 and that was back in 1983.

Personally, for home use, I like the Digitrax Zephyr and CVP's Easy DCC because they have throttle(s) and the programming keypad on a panel. All the "walk around" stuff can be added later if needed. I hate lugging around that master NCE hammer head thing.