DCC choice?

[Anonymous]

I am starting a new layout- this will be my 4th. I am leaning towards DCC but have limited computer skills. My past layouts have been all DC. Will I have problems putting decoders in my locos from the 80's and 90's ie; atlas RS-3 made by Kato back then/ it has a very narrow hood and no room inside?

[Anonymous]

Should not be a problem, but you can check Litchfield Station or Tony's Train Exchange for a compatability to your particular locomotives. The time and expense of the decoder installation will be offset by better more flexible performance of the lay out and the ease of wiring the layout.
Will

[rrinker]

N scale or HO scale? It makes a big difference.

There are several easy to install decoders for the HO scale Atlas/Kato units, including the RS-3. You can even do those without soldering, although I have better results soldering the truck leads to the pins onthe decoder rather than relying on the friction fit.

In N scale it's a bit tougher due to space (or lack thereof). Most modern N scale locos have provisions for removing the stock light board and installing a decoder, but older units have the entire body cavity filled with weight. Several companies offer a service where they mill out a space in the weight to allow a decoder to fit.

All in all, it's far more an exercise in fine motor skills than any sort of electronics knowledge. N scale more so because there really is no excess room so you can't just leave the wires long and coil them up out of the way like you can with HO and larger.

--Randy

[steffd]

Computer Skills are not required to set up and operate a DCC System but is practical for advanced features such as computer operation and automation but can all be self-taught as you go which is also part of the fun. As previously mentioned in another forum, the best course of action In my opinion is to do some research as a DCC system is normally considered a long-term investment and one should consider the future before committing to such a system and the inherent costs involved. With the constant advancements in computer control and layout automation in addition to increased third party DCC accessory manufacturers and software developers, it is best to have a system that will enable you to take fully advantage of those features whether it is now or in the future. If you choose books for your research, be sure to get ones that are not biased or only cover one brand.

On the other hand, if you are new to DCC and are not sure about the functions and capabilities or are on a budget, I would suggest a BASIC lower cost system. I would suggest the “Atlas DCC Master” (made by Lenz), the “Digitrax Zephyr” or “MRC Prodigy” which I find to be wonderful products for the beginner or budget conscious. Starting with a basic set-up will significantly help ease with the transition from standard DC to DCC operation for the beginner and will allow you to learn and familiarize yourself without overwhelming or overly investing. Once you master the various functions you should then be in a better position to determine what features you want and are best for you and then perhaps decide whether or not you want or need to evolve to a more sophisticated system. This in return can end up saving you time money and many headaches.

As for the installation of decoders in your earlier tight fitting locomotives, If you model in HO you can always use the smaller N scale or Z scale decoders which are equally suitable for HO locomotives. Connecting decoders is relatively simple and instructions with diagrams are comprehensive although some basic wiring and soldering skills are required. However, if you do not feel comfortable enough doing this yourself you can always ask your Local Hobby shop if they are qualified or a DCC specialist to install them for you if the fit is too tight and tricky to position.

Thankfully most new locomotive now are DCC ready or equipped and it’s just a matter of either plugging in a decoder and doing some simple programming and off you go. Here are a couple of sources I can personally recommend. Good Luck.[;)]

Stephan

www.dcctrain.com & www.tonystrains.com

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mjrfd99

I am starting a new layout- this will be my 4th. I am leaning towards DCC but have limited computer skills. My past layouts have been all DC. Will I have problems putting decoders in my locos from the 80's and 90's ie; atlas RS-3 made by Kato back then/ it has a very narrow hood and no room inside?

No problems on either count.

1. DCC - I have a top of the line Lenz system that, once I got it speaking English instead of German, is easy to use with no computer. Same for my bottom of the line Digitrax Zephyr. I love the on-pack console. I have only had to look at the manual once to use it. The main console of the CVP Easy DCC operates in a similar way.

2. An Atlas/Kato RS-3 is actually one of the more easy conversions. They (several companies) make decoders that replace the gray plastic piece that snaps over the motor. Decoders have gotten so small these days I cannot imagine any HO locomotive that could not be converted. When I started with command control in 1984 the decoders were so large I had to chop one into three pieces to get it to fit into a narrow (scale width) hood locomotive.

[rrinker]

I'm HOPING he's in HO - we've all said the same thing about the Atlas/Kato HO locos.
3 pieces for a scale width hood? Heck, some of those early CTC-16 receivers needed chopping to fit in an Athearn widebody GP. [:D] I have all those old MR articles, including the one by Richard Kamm with the x-ray photos of locos with custom receiver installs. I was actually in N scale when those articles first appeared, by the time I got back in HO I was just about to start building a CTC-16 when the DCC committee started working, so I ended up holding off.

Oh yeah - indeed those Kato conversions are super easy, if you don't mind the center light bulb. Needs a little bit of mechanical and electrical work to hook up a pair of bulbs and have nice forward and reverse lights. Nothing major, but a 100% improvement. I now have a small stock of the brass rods, the grey plastic boards, and light bulbs with 1/8" leads.

--Randy

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I'm HOPING he's in HO - we've all said the same thing about the Atlas/Kato HO locos.

That is what his profile says.

QUOTE:
I was just about to start building a CTC-16 when the DCC committee started working, so I ended up holding off.

Wow, you waited a long time. If I am recalling my dates properly CTC-16 was way obsolete then. It would have been a great operational improvement but you would have kicked yourself for not waiting. We were using PNP-112 and considering CTC-80 or Railcommand by then. I think only one of our members still had a CTC-16 and couldn't give it away.

QUOTE: indeed those Kato conversions are super easy, if you don't mind the center light bulb. Needs a little bit of mechanical and electrical work to hook up a pair of bulbs and have nice forward and reverse lights. Nothing major, but a 100% improvement. I now have a small stock of the brass rods, the grey plastic boards, and light bulbs with 1/8" leads.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. But I did get used to using the decoders that already had the light bulbs on either end. Then all one has to do is cut each off the clear optical headlamp "pipes" shorter to align with the new lamps. Actually created more room in the shell.

[rrinker]

Yeah, the current standard just prior to DCC was Railcommand, but it was backward compatible, sort of. Plus Railcommand was less DIY and cost a lot more money. At the time my layout was a 2-shelf switching line, a total of about 12 linear feet along 2 walls. Plus since I did (and still do) enjoy electronics work, I wanted to build it myself. I had the CTC-16E articles fromt he mid-80's, and went back and found all the old MR issues with the original CTC-16 from 79-80. Yeah, I would have been disappointed had I not waited, as it turns out I ended up dismantling the layout and it's been until last year that I finally was able to start building another. At the time, I was pretty active on the Compuserve Trainnet forums, and based on the specs put forth from the original Lenz system, I was a strong proponent of the Railcommand-style system for the standard. I wonder if there is an archive of messages that old...
As for lighting, I prefer golden-white LEDs, so that's what I stuck in mine. I cut the light bars off just inside of the first mounting clip (since the headlight lenses are part of the bars ), poili***he end, and heat shrink a GW LED to each bar.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: As for the installation of decoders in your earlier tight fitting locomotives, If you model in HO you can always use the smaller N scale or Z scale decoders which are equally suitable for HO locomotives.

This is a good thing to know, I was not sure if you could use smaller scale decoders in HO, but I guess you can.
Thanks for putting that information in your reply.
ennout

[rrinker]

Yes, the real factor is the motor current draw. So long as the decoder can handle the stall current of the motor, the fact that the decoder is labeled as an N scale or Z scale decoder doesn't matter.

--Randy

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker
At the time, I was pretty active on the Compuserve Trainnet forums, and based on the specs put forth from the original Lenz system, I was a strong proponent of the Railcommand-style system for the standard. I wonder if there is an archive of messages that old...

Hmmmm we probably shared ideas then. I was on Bit-Net which as I recall swapped messages with those forms. I was very disapointed with DCC round 1. To me, after using Railcommand, the limitations were so obvious. To people who had only used DC it seemed like a dream to them. Did you participate in the discussion that there only needed to be 1024 channels for decoders because no one would ever have that many locomotives. I made a lot of enemies in that one. It is so much better today.

[rrinker]

Sounds familiar.. I do remember participating in the discussion on 14 speed steps, how the DCC proponents were saying this is PLENTY because real locomotives only have 8 notches anyway. I have yet to try operating DCC with 14 speed steps - I did set up a decoder for 28 and try that and was greatly disappointed, so 14 must be horrible.
I'll have to look for archives of that stuff on the internet somewhere, those were some interesting discussions. Brings back a lot of memories.

--Randy