quick question aobut a slow machine, ie tortois

[rtesta]

this fathers day i'll be the proud owner of my first three tortois machines, i dont hear many negatives aobut them and since i'm gonna limit the # of turnouts on this layout i've decided to try a few.

my understanding is that the six extra contacts #2-7, are basically a dpdt, and i assume the directions will lay out which is which for me, true?

also, can i run one side for the pannel lights as well as route power for live frogs through the other "side"?

Main issue,,, I DO plan on going DCC within a year as i get track down, is there any issue to routing DCC power for frogs right through the tortois machine contacts, can it handle the amps and volts etc.? wont burn out anything on the machine will I? seems ive heard a bunch of folks ding it this way.

thanks for the help, let me know if theres anything else i should look for regarding the set up etc, appreciate the advice and will change plans if this wont work, you know,,,, SEMPER GUMBY

always flexible!

[rrinker]

That's exactly right, you can use one set of contacts for lights and the other for the frog. But you really don't need to run all those wires fromt he machine back to the panel - the EASIEST way to run panel lights with a Tortoise is to simply put a pair of LEDs back to back in series with the power to the motor (pin 1 or 8). Or you can use a bi-color LED, which is really the same thing (2 seperate LEDs back to back in the same casing with a common set of leads). No resistors are necessary, the Tortoise motor itself acts as just the right amount of resistence to keep from blowing up the LED.
Switch contacts are rated based on how much current they can safely SWITCH. When you throw the turnout, there is no loco sitting on the frog drawing power, so you are switching zero amps. The current carrying capacity of the contacts is much higher than the switching capacity. Plus there can never be more than one unit on the frog at a time - so even if you use 10 amp DCC boosters, the most you will have on the frog is one loco drawing whatever that one loco draws - for most anything HO that's 1 amp or less - in the case of better quality locos, MUCH less.

--Randy

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtesta
my understanding is that the six extra contacts #2-7, are basically a dpdt, and i assume the directions will lay out which is which for me, true?

True

QUOTE:
also, can i run one side for the pannel lights as well as route power for live frogs through the other "side"?

True

QUOTE: Is there any issue to routing DCC power for frogs right through the tortois machine contacts, can it handle the amps and volts etc.? wont burn out anything on the machine will I?

No, powering a frog for DCC is the same as DC. We are currently doing this on our club layout. They plug right in. The only issue you might run into is if you wire a short into the circuit. If the tortoise points create the final short, it might weld them together.

[rtesta]

thanks for the advice, only got two replies buut got my answers and i appreciate it!

i have read where the tortois will switch power in the middle of the "throw" and this can lead to a short if the points havent moved away from the stock rails. recomendations to take the ol' tortois appart and cut out the mid section of the internal contacts to prevent this happening.

seems to make sense in theory, but i certainly dont want to do surgery on a bunch of machines if this is a rare event.

any experience with this?

thanks again, bobt

[mcouvillion]

Bob,

If you install the Tortoise correctly, it won't happen. Opening the Tortoise voids the warranty. They are extremely durable, but why do it? Just install them properly and you won't have a problem.

Mark C.

[johncolley]

Hello, I have not seen the instructions as my Tortoises have all been second hand, but my understanding is the printed instructions don't tell you anything about the auxilliary contacts, and you have to get online to the factory for an explanation of.them. That said, they are a terrific little machine. I will ultimately have 13 of them on my yard throat. They work fine on about 8 -10 v DC and that is continuous, not momentary. they are low amperage stall motors and will continue to hold the points in position until changed. Enjoy!

[BR60103]

If you are going to power frogs with the totroise (or any switch machine), the frog should be isolated in all 4 rails. Plastic rail joiners at the end of the turnout and cut a gap between the frog and the point rails. Point rails should be wired to the adjacent stock rail (or not. opinions vary.) This way you get only one loco on the frog at a time.
Go for the LED in the wires for indicators. If you need it, you might be able to wire an extra set in. Warning: disconnect the power supply for the Tortoise before soldering in the LEDs. I blew one when the iron touched the leads.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtesta

thanks for the advice, only got two replies buut got my answers and i appreciate it!

i have read where the tortois will switch power in the middle of the "throw" and this can lead to a short if the points havent moved away from the stock rails. recomendations to take the ol' tortois appart and cut out the mid section of the internal contacts to prevent this happening.

seems to make sense in theory, but i certainly dont want to do surgery on a bunch of machines if this is a rare event.

any experience with this?

thanks again, bobt

That can only happen with live frog turnouts, where power is conducted to the frog via the point rails as well as your Tortoise contacts. With an insulated frog turnout where the frog is powered only via the Tortoise contacts, this can't happen. The biggest offender (besides mounting the Tortoise WAY off center) is Peco Electrofrog - because if you don't remove or release the stock spring on the points, the Tortoise will complete or nearly complete its throw before the sidewas pressure overcomes the point spring and the points snap over - kind of defeats the slow motion part of the Tortoise action anyway. On Insulfrog this isn't a problem, other than the points snapping over.

--Randy