On the level

[jacon12]

or more appropriately, not on the level. I have my 2 inch extruded foam cut and in place on the plywood benchtops, but in a couple of places my woodworking skills were a little less than adequate[:(]. I've noticed that in a couple of spots one section of foam is about 1/4th inch higher than its next door neighbor.
The solution could be to shim up the lower section and glue it down or don't shim it, glue them both down and then take a sharp razor knife and carefully pare the taller one flush with the lower.
Should this be of great concern or not?
To those that have been down this road before me, how did you handle it and how did it work out?
Thanks for any advice.
Jarrell

[selector]

The quickest way would be to shim, depending on the construction holding the sheets of foam in place. Too, you could use a plane ('surform', I think it is called..help, anyone?) and shave in that area....remember, land isn't 'flat', so don't be all wrapped around the axle about this. It is a small discrepancy, and I would just use a wire bru***o lightly scrub it down. Unless buildings are going there, ground cover will look after it later. As for your rail road, again, you can just scrub the right of way flat there, just like in the real thing.

[MisterBeasley]

It's only important if there is track crossing there. Then, you should take great care to get things even. Do you have a spirit level, one of those things with a little bubble that tells you if it's horizontal or not? (They also make digital versions of these, but the old bubble level works fine for me.) Even and flat are one thing, but level is quite another. You should strive for all 3 for your trackwork.

Remember the words of the great philosopher above, "Land isn't flat." The more slopes and kinks your scenery has, the better it will look. The more slopes and kinks your trackwork has,though, the worse it will run.

[tigerstripe]

try a shim using a section of cork roadbed use HO or N as req. my sections are not glued to the benchwork at all and just sit there. Just for fun measure your foam to check the actual thickness. I have noticed sheets that came from the same stack have as much as 3/8" difference.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

The quickest way would be to shim, depending on the construction holding the sheets of foam in place. Too, you could use a plane ('surform', I think it is called..help, anyone?) and shave in that area....remember, land isn't 'flat', so don't be all wrapped around the axle about this. It is a small discrepancy, and I would just use a wire bru***o lightly scrub it down. Unless buildings are going there, ground cover will look after it later. As for your rail road, again, you can just scrub the right of way flat there, just like in the real thing.

Crandell, that's my problem right now.. I'm so new at this I don't know what to be concerned about and what not to, but I'm learning!
I'm going to take your advice and be sure where the rr crosses these spots that it's level (or as level as I can make it) and let ground cover take care of the other.
Thanks!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

It's only important if there is track crossing there. Then, you should take great care to get things even. Do you have a spirit level, one of those things with a little bubble that tells you if it's horizontal or not? (They also make digital versions of these, but the old bubble level works fine for me.) Even and flat are one thing, but level is quite another. You should strive for all 3 for your trackwork.

Remember the words of the great philosopher above, "Land isn't flat." The more slopes and kinks your scenery has, the better it will look. The more slopes and kinks your trackwork has,though, the worse it will run.

Mr. Beasley, I will pay close attention to the spots that the tracks cross and do my best to level it out. Man, I can't wait till I start laying track. This oughta be a riot![(-D]
Thanks for your help!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerstripe

try a shim using a section of cork roadbed use HO or N as req. my sections are not glued to the benchwork at all and just sit there. Just for fun measure your foam to check the actual thickness. I have noticed sheets that came from the same stack have as much as 3/8" difference.

Tiger I hadn't thought of the pieces of cork, thanks. I did notice that one of the foam pieces seemed to be squashed down (is that a word?) more than the neighbor piece. I'll check it out.
Jarrell

[bogp40]

Jarrell,
As already mentioned above, flat where track will be is more important than "level". Shimming can cause additional problems w/ the trackwork if you create a short/ quick 1/4" lump. Use a long (at least 4') straightedge to check if the raised piece is high. If not then the lower one can be shimmed. You just want to have an even/ flat area for roadbed. You can easily shave any high spots as mentioned, the Shure form rasp seems to work best for this. Of coarse, your railroad need not be pefectly level, some grades look good and some may be necessary for your final trackplan.anyway.Did you mention that you may want a logging or mining branchline? A track can run up grade even as much as 4% for a branch like that. You may need to have any elevated portion at one of the 4x4 ends, this would give you enough track length to climb. A portion of the mainline would be covered of coarse, but scenery wise that could look very impressive.
Bob K.

[selector]

Mr. B, me....a philosopher? Gosh...[:I] [:)] But really, the land ISN"T flat!

Jarrell, Mr. Beasley is wise in his own right. That is why I urge you in another thread to take care to lay your track and PROVE it as you generate the right-of-way. You prove it by ensuring that you can connect all pieces much like your overall plan says you were to do, and by running trains over it in all conceivable ways. If you are scratching your head at this point (proving the track) because the trains don't stay on it, then you need to figure out why. Once the track is sound (flat, level, etc) then you can do the wiring, followed by painting and scenic stuff as we were discussing elsewhere.

What an exciting time for us, eh? Er, I mean, for you. [:-^]

[SpaceMouse]

Jarrell,

Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

Jarrell,
As already mentioned above, flat where track will be is more important than "level". Shimming can cause additional problems w/ the trackwork if you create a short/ quick 1/4" lump. Use a long (at least 4') straightedge to check if the raised piece is high. If not then the lower one can be shimmed. You just want to have an even/ flat area for roadbed. You can easily shave any high spots as mentioned, the Shure form rasp seems to work best for this. Of coarse, your railroad need not be pefectly level, some grades look good and some may be necessary for your final trackplan.anyway.Did you mention that you may want a logging or mining branchline? A track can run up grade even as much as 4% for a branch like that. You may need to have any elevated portion at one of the 4x4 ends, this would give you enough track length to climb. A portion of the mainline would be covered of coarse, but scenery wise that could look very impressive.
Bob K.

Bob, it's early and I've only had one cup of coffee but what you say sounds good and I've got to come back to it when I'm fully awake. Last night I tried shimming the lower side up and I, as you said, did notice that I got a hump and decided that wasn't good, so I left it alone for now.
I would really like to have a logging operation area and with ya'lls help I'm gonna work it in somehow. I think a novice like me should use something like Woodland Scenics risers for the inclines. Maybe one day I'll tackle the do it yourself kind.
Thanks for the ideas,
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Jarrell,

Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

Chip, I sure do want elevations and bridges and all the other. I didn't realize it would be harder once the foam is glued down. Would you mind elaborating on that some, I'd appreciate it.
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Jarrell,

Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

Chip, I sure do want elevations and bridges and all the other. I didn't realize it would be harder once the foam is glued down. Would you mind elaborating on that some, I'd appreciate it.
Jarrell

Sure. All your grades need support. If you are going with a cookie cutter approach. Cutting out plywood and supporting with wooden risers, it is much easier to attatch to the benchwork that it is to foam. Chuck shows a step by step method using L-guirders. I applied the riser to the plywood and secured witha nail gun. This is not the best picture, but it is what I have.



Notice that the foam only goes to the edge of the grade. You don't need it underneath and it can be used for the parts further up the mountain.

Now it could be possible to use the Woodland Sceneic Foam, but your foam better be "on the level." Even so, all the foam under your mountain is wasted, and if you just bought it, you know how much it costs.

[tigerstripe]

OK I didn't say it right, place the cork between the foam and the benchwork. Only shim one end or side as required. Also in some places I laid track on W/S foam trackbed on the mainline and directly on the foam in the siding. Don't glue the track for the first 12-14", allow the track to make its own transition for the elevation change.. Then go back and "backfill" the area with ballast. Maybe this helps a little.


I've spent half my life playing with trains, the rest I just wasted.

[Anonymous]

why dont you cut one foam sheet in half and lay one half on your plywood and then stradle the plywood joint with a full sheet of foam. use the other half of foam on the end of the last peice of plywood.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Jarrell,

Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

Chip, I sure do want elevations and bridges and all the other. I didn't realize it would be harder once the foam is glued down. Would you mind elaborating on that some, I'd appreciate it.
Jarrell

Sure. All your grades need support. If you are going with a cookie cutter approach. Cutting out plywood and supporting with wooden risers, it is much easier to attatch to the benchwork that it is to foam. Chuck shows a step by step method using L-guirders. I applied the riser to the plywood and secured witha nail gun. This is not the best picture, but it is what I have.



Notice that the foam only goes to the edge of the grade. You don't need it underneath and it can be used for the parts further up the mountain.

Now it could be possible to use the Woodland Sceneic Foam, but your foam better be "on the level." Even so, all the foam under your mountain is wasted, and if you just bought it, you know how much it costs.

Ok, I understand now. Thanks Chip.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3155944

why dont you cut one foam sheet in half and lay one half on your plywood and then stradle the plywood joint with a full sheet of foam. use the other half of foam on the end of the last peice of plywood.

That's a good idea and I would do it if I hadn't already cut the foam. Darn.
Thanks,
Jarrell

[ukguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerstripe

I've spent half my life playing with trains, the rest I just wasted.

Great quote !!

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

Chip, I sure do want elevations and bridges and all the other. I didn't realize it would be harder once the foam is glued down. Would you mind elaborating on that some, I'd appreciate it.

Building grades and elevations is NOT harder to build once foam is glued down.

All you need to do is add layers of foam to make elevations; and use WS's inclines to easily make grades. See Simon1966's photos (scroll down to get them all) in this topic... http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37559 He shows a wonderful way of using foam economically to build a mountain. You'll notice he sometimes used what appear to be scrap pieces from packaging.

As for "wasting" foam inside mountains ... How much would using plywood decking and lumber risers cost in both time and money ? A cookie-cutter plywood construction techniques takes time and effort to make the grades at the right heights.

You have to balance the cost of materiels and the difficulties involved with your chosen construction techniques. You also have to consider your skills at working with power tools and lumber, over those for cutting and shaping foam. Do you have the tools to work with wood? Or do you have the tools to work with foam?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12
I can't wait till I start laying track. This oughta be a riot![(-D]
Thanks for your help!
Jarrell

Jarrell,

You'll actually find the track laying easy. I found the roadbed (ie cork) much more difficult than the actual track. The cork has to be figured and marked and measured and joined. The track only has to follow along with the cork. At least, that's my personal experience.

As for the levelling problem, I'd shim the lower piece to be level with the higher piece. Else, you'll be surforming forever![:p]

Trevor[:)]

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ukguy

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerstripe

I've spent half my life playing with trains, the rest I just wasted.

Great quote !!

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

Karl, that is a great signature picture. Looks like some place I fished as a kid and the kind of place I'd like to put on my layout somewhere.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

QUOTE: Originally posted by jacon12

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Are you 100% sure you don't want elevations, or bridges or hills or other places your train goes up and down. Because when you glue down the foam, elevations become harder to build.

Chip, I sure do want elevations and bridges and all the other. I didn't realize it would be harder once the foam is glued down. Would you mind elaborating on that some, I'd appreciate it.

Building grades and elevations is NOT harder to build once foam is glued down.

All you need to do is add layers of foam to make elevations; and use WS's inclines to easily make grades. See Simon1966's photos (scroll down to get them all) in this topic... http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37559 He shows a wonderful way of using foam economically to build a mountain. You'll notice he sometimes used what appear to be scrap pieces from packaging.

As for "wasting" foam inside mountains ... How much would using plywood decking and lumber risers cost in both time and money ? A cookie-cutter plywood construction techniques takes time and effort to make the grades at the right heights.

You have to balance the cost of materiels and the difficulties involved with your chosen construction techniques. You also have to consider your skills at working with power tools and lumber, over those for cutting and shaping foam. Do you have the tools to work with wood? Or do you have the tools to work with foam?

Thanks for the link to the foam mountain photo. One of the reasons I didn't attempt a cookie cutter style layout is I knew I neither had the equipment nor the skills to carry it through. I'm just getting confused now with what you do first, glue the foam down now and then start on the track laying (temporary track), or vice versa.
Thanks for the information!
Jarrell

[selector]

Jarrell, you just did a huge thing for Karl, if inadvertently, by praising his work. I know you were away for some of it, and probably missed the exchanges in the last weekend photo fun post. Scroll down until you get to his post. You'll understand once you have read everything.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Jarrell, you just did a huge thing for Karl, if inadvertently, by praising his work. I know you were away for some of it, and probably missed the exchanges in the last weekend photo fun post. Scroll down until you get to his post. You'll understand once you have read everything.

Good Grief, that is just about unbelievable! I'm sorry to hear about that.[:0]
Jarrell