Painting Foam

[jacon12]

I'm thinking that spray cans are the best way to go in painting 2 inch extruded foam (outside in the open air), not a brush.
Am I thinking right?
Jarrell

[selector]

It will probably go faster, and as long as you are adept with the 'weapon' and can aovid a lot of paint sagging and running (equals waste, not unsightly as you will cover most of it with scenic foam and structures?), I would say sure, Jarrell. If you do not live in a humid area, and can leave them protected, but outside, they will dry a lot faster, too. Mine took many hours in my basement before I pruchased a dehumidifier.

By the way, how's it goin'?

[SpaceMouse]

Use house paint and a roller. You might want a lighter color if you plan to draw on it. (you will.)

[Anonymous]

Can you use oil based paints on foam?

[jxtrrx]

Oil based paint will eat right through the foam. Use acrylics only. I used a brush and some old brown house paint. Worked fine.

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Use house paint and a roller. You might want a lighter color if you plan to draw on it. (you will.)

That's what I do. Cheap latex works well. Shake a little ground foam on while it's still a little wet for good effect.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

It will probably go faster, and as long as you are adept with the 'weapon' and can aovid a lot of paint sagging and running (equals waste, not unsightly as you will cover most of it with scenic foam and structures?), I would say sure, Jarrell. If you do not live in a humid area, and can leave them protected, but outside, they will dry a lot faster, too. Mine took many hours in my basement before I pruchased a dehumidifier.

By the way, how's it goin'?

Crandell, as the guys have suggested.. I think I'll go with cheap latex and a roller. I live down in Humid Georgia, so I'll just have to pick a rainfree day and paint away!
The pictures below show how things have come in the last 3 weeks..


and today..

Next the painting and then I guess the track planning and laying. That's when things are really going to slow down. And that's when I'll start asking you guys a billion and one questions!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go with the latex and a roller. Probably get it smoother that way. You know, every time I look at this layout it gets smaller and smaller for some reason.
Jarrell

[selector]

Jarrell, I entirely forgot that you may want to put down an initial layer (sprinkling) of ground cover before you let that paint dry..I'm glad grande man caught that! [^]

And, I did not read your initial question all that carefully, I am sorry to say. I read "spray" and immediately thought of airbrush...don't know why. So, aboslutely, roller and a tray is the way to go. [:I]

[rrinker]

Maybe I'm doing things backwards, but I'm not painting the foam until all the track is in place. I'd think if you spriinkle on ground cover prior to laying track, you'll only have to scrape it off where the roadbed goes. So, right now I run trains on a big pink prairie. I just have to fini***he yard, then it's paint time - I got a perfect shade of brown on the OOPS rack at Home Depot, a whole $5 for a gallon of latex paint. I'm kicking myself for not buying the other 3 they had of the exact same shade - I WILL need it when I build the rest of the layout.
The plan is to pint in all pink areas between the roadbed. Then ballast the track.

--Randy

[selector]

You are right, Randy. In my case, though, I did have the track laid, and I covered it with painter's tape. I could slop on all the paint I wanted to and not have to worry about getting any on the ballast or rails. So, I was ready for the ground cover by then.

I don't know if Jarrell is just doing a base coat or if his track is already down. I agree with you that he should wait for groujnd cover until he has confirmed and temporarily laid his track.

[jacon12]

No, ... no track laid yet.
I'm like Randy, I'm thinking that if I sprinkle the ground foam onto the wet paint, when I start stacking piece of foam to make a hill I have to scrape away the ground foam. I see where it would be of benefit to put it on while the paint is wet then you don't have to mess with glueing it down though.
Hmmmm.......[%-)]
Jarrell

[Anonymous]

I did what Randy is going to do and regret it... Waited til the track and ballast was on before I painted. It ended up taking a long time to paint b/c I was worried about getting paint on the ballast... So there's still pink sowing, which I can touch up later, but as you see, more work later...

What I think I should have done was paint the foam and then lay track and roadbed... But I agree that sprinkling ground foam may be counterproductive.

Go my paint in the OOPS rack at HD, too. For some reason, they always have brown in that rack.

[grandeman]

Guys, I should clarify the ground foam comment. When I built foam sections, the roadbed when down directly on the foam and then the foam was painted BEFORE track and ballast was put down. Sorry for the vague nature of the earlier comment.

[simon1966]

What ever you do, remember to peel off the plastic film that covers many of the foams. I forgot and regret it. I find slopping on the paint good and thick after I have added scenery elements like carved out gullys and built up ridges to work best. The thicker paint hold the sprinkled ground foam better as well.

[bogp40]

Jarrel,
If you plan to have grades and varying landforms, hills, rivers, drainage trenches, etc, you should hold off on painting the foam. Layout the track and grades with scenery also in mind. There may end up with areas that you will create a hill/ mountain w/ portals to breakup the dogbone curves etc. These spots would have layers of foam carved/ shaped to meet the scenery you desire. After the trackwork and scenery base is complete is when you would paint w/ a latex/ acylic house paint. Use a color of the earth for the local that you are modeling. Then sprinkle the ground foam on the wet paint.
Save the ballasting for last, especially want to test out the trackwork and debug or repair before applying ballast.
Bob K.

[egmurphy]

I'm with the group that would suggest painting first. Gets the stark blue or pink covered quickly. Leave the ground foam for later.

When it's time to put down ground foam it's easy to brush on a thinned coat of white glue.

And with the wet paint method, I think that unless you work real fast and only put down a thin layer of ground foam, you're likely to have to do some further glueing anyway.

jmho

Ed

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by petejung

I did what Randy is going to do and regret it... Waited til the track and ballast was on before I painted. It ended up taking a long time to paint b/c I was worried about getting paint on the ballast... So there's still pink sowing, which I can touch up later, but as you see, more work later...

What I think I should have done was paint the foam and then lay track and roadbed... But I agree that sprinkling ground foam may be counterproductive.

Go my paint in the OOPS rack at HD, too. For some reason, they always have brown in that rack.

Thanks Pete, I gotta check out that OPPS rack.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966

What ever you do, remember to peel off the plastic film that covers many of the foams. I forgot and regret it. I find slopping on the paint good and thick after I have added scenery elements like carved out gullys and built up ridges to work best. The thicker paint hold the sprinkled ground foam better as well.

Simon, thanks for bringing that point up. I was wondering if it was best to do what carving you're going to do before or after doing the basic first coat of paint.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

Jarrel,
If you plan to have grades and varying landforms, hills, rivers, drainage trenches, etc, you should hold off on painting the foam. Layout the track and grades with scenery also in mind. There may end up with areas that you will create a hill/ mountain w/ portals to breakup the dogbone curves etc. These spots would have layers of foam carved/ shaped to meet the scenery you desire. After the trackwork and scenery base is complete is when you would paint w/ a latex/ acylic house paint. Use a color of the earth for the local that you are modeling. Then sprinkle the ground foam on the wet paint.
Save the ballasting for last, especially want to test out the trackwork and debug or repair before applying ballast.
Bob K.

Ahhhh... ok Bob, that answers the question about WHEN to paint. Like any good mrr, you know I want a few hills and at least one tunnel. I was just in the room looking at all that foam laying there and it is so.. soooo flat! I thought no where on earth is land that flat!
Boy, you got a lot of carving to do.
So if you're going to be carving ditches and streams and just unleveling the flatness for some variety it would make sense to paint after the cutting.
But, is it better to break up all that flatness by digging down or using something like Scuptamold to build up, or do you do both?
There's a million questions running around in my head..[%-)]
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I'm with the group that would suggest painting first. Gets the stark blue or pink covered quickly. Leave the ground foam for later.

When it's time to put down ground foam it's easy to brush on a thinned coat of white glue.

And with the wet paint method, I think that unless you work real fast and only put down a thin layer of ground foam, you're likely to have to do some further glueing anyway.

jmho
Ed, do you do any trenches, streams, hills or other land forms before you put that initial paint on?
Jarrell

Ed

[selector]

I agree with Robert K. My experience, for which I congratulate myself, was to construct the right of way, grades, tunnels, and bridges first, but placing and aligning the EZ-Track all along to make sure I wasn't going to end up with that staggered join where it was all supposed to come together. Then, I painted the whole area to be ground-covered AFTER covering the track with 2" painter's tape (no residue). Since EZ-Track is already ballasted, AND I was going to sand ballast over it, I was able to slop on the paint, as I said in a previous post, and cover any slops with the ballast when I eventually got that that bit.

If you have Flex-track and will ballast, then you might just as well draw centre lines where the track will go (confirm!), and paint right up to that line first. Track goes down later with ballast covering the paint as necessary. As Ed points out, you can ground cover any time later.

[Medina1128]

And save those odd shaped little pieces of foam that are left when you shave the foam. They make great little mounds, hills, etc. I am shaping mine as I go and will tack the fascia in place, trace the shape of the terrain to it and cut it out with a jigsaw. And by all means, install a fascia. It'll protect the edges of your terrain from elbows, shop vac hoses, extension cords, all those other things that will come in contact with the edges of your layout.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I agree with Robert K. My experience, for which I congratulate myself, was to construct the right of way, grades, tunnels, and bridges first, but placing and aligning the EZ-Track all along to make sure I wasn't going to end up with that staggered join where it was all supposed to come together. Then, I painted the whole area to be ground-covered AFTER covering the track with 2" painter's tape (no residue). Since EZ-Track is already ballasted, AND I was going to sand ballast over it, I was able to slop on the paint, as I said in a previous post, and cover any slops with the ballast when I eventually got that that bit.

If you have Flex-track and will ballast, then you might just as well draw centre lines where the track will go (confirm!), and paint right up to that line first. Track goes down later with ballast covering the paint as necessary. As Ed points out, you can ground cover any time later.

Ok, I think I've got it now.
Cut, fit and glue the foam down.
Temporarily lay track and test.
When satisfied, mark the center line and remove track.
Paint the foam base right up to centerline
Reinstall track

Any changes?
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Medina1128

And save those odd shaped little pieces of foam that are left when you shave the foam. They make great little mounds, hills, etc. I am shaping mine as I go and will tack the fascia in place, trace the shape of the terrain to it and cut it out with a jigsaw. And by all means, install a fascia. It'll protect the edges of your terrain from elbows, shop vac hoses, extension cords, all those other things that will come in contact with the edges of your layout.

Marlon, I've been saving them. I wasn't sure I'd be able to use them but I've got some put away. And, I now know what you mean about vacuum hose, extension cords etc. I'm amazed at how much damage they can do!
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

I wouldn't glue down the foam until you have a plan. If you want mountains with grades, bridges, any kind of elevation of your track for any reason, the foam will be in the way. If you have grades you don't need foam in those place so you have extra for your contours.

You're reaching the bridge where every thing you do will limit what you can do in terms of track work.

You need to layout the towns, mountains, industries, etc. so that the track work makes sense. I did not do this so now I am fitting the scenery, structures, and industries to my track work and a lot of it just doesn't fit.

[selector]

Jarrell, yes, but as Chip says, you need to build all of the topography first. Do you intend to have a tunnel, water course, mountain, grades, bridges, gulleys for a nice trestle bridge, and so on? Look at your layout and figure out what they will look like and where they'll be situated. Then, build them, and try to do it with your track-plan bird's-eye view in mind. Of course, if you will have a completely flat layout with a foam base, then do as you state in your last post to me (Chip says, and I am right behind him, that if you intend to have structures, where will they be? Really...go and place your hand where your factory, pumphouse, water tower, cafe, cottage, etc. will be. Now, where is your track going to run, again? See what we mean?)

When your mountains and water courses are all roughed in, then you do the alternating track laying, pull it up and refine, re-lay, re-refine, and so on until you can safely leave all of your temporarily connected track down, hook up some wires and a controller, and actually prove your track with a couple of locos and trains. When you know it is right, you can take it all up and paint as you asked me in that last post addressed to me.

Whew, i'm sweating!

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I wouldn't glue down the foam until you have a plan. If you want mountains with grades, bridges, any kind of elevation of your track for any reason, the foam will be in the way. If you have grades you don't need foam in those place so you have extra for your contours.

You're reaching the bridge where every thing you do will limit what you can do in terms of track work.

You need to layout the towns, mountains, industries, etc. so that the track work makes sense. I did not do this so now I am fitting the scenery, structures, and industries to my track work and a lot of it just doesn't fit.

So, the trackwork should fit the towns, not the towns fit the trackplan.
Chip, I appreciate the experience you're giving me. Maybe one day I can pass a little of it along.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Jarrell, yes, but as Chip says, you need to build all of the topography first. Do you intend to have a tunnel, water course, mountain, grades, bridges, gulleys for a nice trestle bridge, and so on? Look at your layout and figure out what they will look like and where they'll be situated. Then, build them, and try to do it with your track-plan bird's-eye view in mind. Of course, if you will have a completely flat layout with a foam base, then do as you state in your last post to me (Chip says, and I am right behind him, that if you intend to have structures, where will they be? Really...go and place your hand where your factory, pumphouse, water tower, cafe, cottage, etc. will be. Now, where is your track going to run, again? See what we mean?)

When your mountains and water courses are all roughed in, then you do the alternating track laying, pull it up and refine, re-lay, re-refine, and so on until you can safely leave all of your temporarily connected track down, hook up some wires and a controller, and actually prove your track with a couple of locos and trains. When you know it is right, you can take it all up and paint as you asked me in that last post addressed to me.

Whew, i'm sweating!

Now you know nobody sweats in Vancouver. That has got to be one of the most beautiful areas on earth. I'm amazed you're not deep into photography!
I appreciate the help and I'm going to take a day or two and try to absorb all the information. Right now I'm headed to a little country place that has the best fried grouper around. I know... fried! it's gonna kill me yet, but it's so good..[:D]
Jarrell
Jarrell