Hair-brained Idea or how can I reverse my layout?

[SpaceMouse]

I designed my layout backwards.

That's not exactly true. I designed my layout of one purpose and now that purpose non-existent and the purpose I want to use it for is different and it is designed wrong for the second purpose. The layout was designed to be a Hogwarts passenger based layout where my kids would move between Hogwarts Castle, Diagon Alley and Kings Cross Station. The "yard" is a place where the kids park their trains, and since they are blocked off, shut them down so the next kid can take their turn. Here's a picture of the layout.



In the Hogwarts scenario, trains would back out of the "yard" (parking spaces) pull forward and go clockwise around the inside loop. The first siding at 9 o'clock would be Diagon Alley. They would pull in and let Harry do his shopping. They would then continue across the cross-over which would send them to the outside loop and up the 3% incline to Hogwarts (Tater Mountain). There they would pull into Hogwarts station and drop off Harry and the gang. Then the train goes back down the inside grade 3.7%, back across the the crossover, into the tunnel to Kings Cross Station or park their train.

Now the kids aren't all that interested and it is my layout. Trouble is that running clock-wise in my Old West Scenario, all the industrial sidings are head-in. On the upper level at the Rock Ridge Mining Company, that means an engine would have to circle Tater Mountain 3 times to make a drop off and exchange of cars.

So I should just reverse the layout and go counter-clockwise. All the industrial sidings would become back-in, and the yard would be pointing in the right direction for switching. Except that my engines are only able to get themselves and a caboose up the 3.7% grade.

I'm getting DCC next month so the obvious answer is helper engines. I have a pair of 2-6-0 Camelbacks that I had picked up with the intention of using them MU to pull trains up a Helix when I build my basement layout. But where do I put them on the layout where they won't be in the way?

Here's the hair-brained idea. Check out this early picture of the layout.



On the left you can see inside the tunnel where the loop turns to go up the grade if you are traveling up the 3% grade. I can replace the straight there with a turnout and put a siding along the edge of the lower layout. Now instead of covering this area, I could build a cut-away of the tunnel and we could watch the team of the Old-Mother Camelbacks eat their lunch and stuff while they wait for a train to push up the 3.7% grade. But there are 3 disadvantages.

1) The Mother Hubbards are 1890's and this layout is 1880's (But then again, my son's 2-8-0 is running and so is my daughter's 1920's 4-4-0 so if I paint them Hogwarts it won't be any worse. )

2) The train crew will probably die of smoke inhalation and CO poisoning. But life is cheap in the old west and I can always paint new train crews.

3) Instead of being able to set the train to a certain speed and watch the train cruise the main-line. Every lap I will have to pull out the helpers to get up the hill. Then as the train is pulling into Rock Ridge Station. I'll be running the helper engines simultaneously back down to their siding across multiple turnouts. In other words, I've turned my continuous run, non-ops layout into a two-man ops oriented layout.

The last one kinda defeats the purpose because the reason I'm considering converting it is because the kids don't care to use it that much anyway. So I'm going to be running it alone.

Any way off the horns of dilemma?

[dehusman]

How about redesigning the layout? If you didn't use the EZ track or whatever it is you could fit about twice the yard in the same space or the same yard in half the space. Remove the loop at the top. Replace it with a runaround and some mine spurs. using conventional track. You will never fit it in using the train set track.

The real issue is the 3.7% grade. To really fix the problem you have to lose that. No matter how you slice it, it's still going to be a problem. I assume that the other side of the grade is less steep. Lose the steep side. With the runaround you won't need it. The trains shove up to the mine, switch the mine and then head down the hill. It that's not acceptable put a turntable at the top (not a roundhouse, just a turntable).

Dave H.

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Dave,

I'm really looking for a quick fix. This layout was built with the intention of:

1) Something I could get running quickly so the kids could play with trains. Well I have 5 months into it and they could care less. I'm hopin that will change when it is decorated somewhat.

2) It is a learning layout. I'm finishing it to get expereince with all aspects of the layout bildng process.

3) It is disposable, meaning it won't fit once the basement layout is underway. I don't want to put any more into it except what I already have and what can move to the basement layout.

On the last part I may be deluding myself. In between the 4x8 layout and the basement layout, I plan a shelf layout in N to learn how I feel about operation. It may be a while before I get to the basement layout and I might regret my decision not to make the changes.

Yes, I regret using EZ track.It won't happen again, I promise.

And Tater Mountain which I have about a month into is now in place on the upper level.

[SpaceMouse]

Oh yeah, I vow never put in a grade more than 2%.

That said the shelf layout I'm looking at is designed with a 4% grade. I'm hopin I can design that out.

[selector]

Are you saying that your kids are permanently 'off' the Hogwart theme, the layout you are planning, or just fed up with waiting for it to be built? Maybe you should just persevere, see it to completion, and show them the finished product. They might renew their interest (bonus), but you will have demonstrated that vision and perseverance are what history is all about.

If they are on to other things, why not just start over....period. Take a full step back, design what you want, and begin it when you have the resources. God knows you have convinced me that you are a determined and resourceful man, Chip, so my strong encouragement would be to start back from scratch and do it the way YOU want. If that means ditching the EZ-Track (never again for me, either), waiting until you can get some easy track (I know a fellow nearby who is selling over 60 pieces for CDN$100), then do it.

Do it!

[CraigN]

I would leave it alone and start on the scenery. That might be all it takes to get the kids interested again.
If you did choose to change directions, that would be ok, you have a runaround and that would make switching more interesting. You will just have to run short trains( they would look better on a small layout anyways).

Learn on this while you plan the basement railroad.

That's my .02

[SpaceMouse]

Crandell,

Starting over would be counter-productive at this point. The parts I've done, I don't want to repeat until I'm moving on to something permanent. What ever I do with this 4 x 8 will be destroyed when I start the basement layout. There just won't be room. I may just put in the turnout and use it only when running with someone else. The rest of the time, I'll run clock-wise.

[howmus]

Chip, You could back your trains into the yard (parking spaces) and when you leave, you would be going the other way (counter clockwise) giving you acces to some switching before the grueling climb up the grade. Then proceed around and down the "grueling grade" (watch the brakes, LOL) and then pick up the cars as you go aroiund the oval and then back the train into the yard......??????

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks guys. I knew you'd come up with a few ideas.

[egmurphy]

Quick fix idea. I’m assuming the 3.7% grade is the one coming off the right side of the upper level? How about trying to put a couple of ½” or ¾” blocks under the legs at this end of the layout (the end opposite the upper level)? Effectively slant the table top slightly towards the upper level end. This should cut down the 3.7% grade slightly (while increasing the grade on part of the 3% grade). Maybe you’d reach a compromise (trying a couple of different size blocks) where you could run acceptable length trains (if not the full length you want) in both directions. Just a flyer, but since you asked.


Regards

Ed

[jockellis]

Have your railroad file for bankruptcy, dump the retirement plan off on the government and get massive subsidies from Uncle Sugar to complete trackwork using the best of materials and highly paid consultants to allow you to keep the businesses along the route from going under. Contact your Congressman, your Senator! Write the president. Just don't tell him Hogwarts passengers ride your trains.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[Anonymous]

Tilt the whole table just a little. 1/2" or so should lower that grade a bit. Granted, everything else would be tilted a bit, but on a temp layout, so what?

[GMTRacing]

Tilt the table - what a cool idea ! And maybe try getting the kids involved with the plaster/paint/mess. What kid doesn't love making a mess? At your business you would call it making them shareholders. J.R.