Building inclines with foam

[electrolove]

2 questions today :-)

1 - I'm soon starting to lay my track. My idea is to make my own risers and inclines with XPS foam. Can someone please tell me some good ideas for this?

2 - I know that woodland scenics make products like this. Have anyone here used their foam risers and inclines? Please tell me how it worked out.

Thanks in advance

[dave9999]

The Woodland Scenics risers work great. I am kicking myself for not using them
on my current layout. Here's a pic from the old layout (the one that is no longer with us[xx(])
Good luck, Dave

[electrolove]

Dave:

This is HO in your picture right?

What do you use on top of the risers and inclines, under the track?

Any more pictures?

Thanks

[dave9999]

electrolove,
Yes, it's HO. The picture was before I layed the roadbed. Here's a picture after I layed the AMI Instant
Roadbed. Good luck, Dave

[electrolove]

Dave:

Thanks a lot, this was very helpful. Maybe I go the woodland scenics way, seems to be the easiest and best I can do.

I looked at you picture album and that was very nice to see. Thanks again

[dave9999]

Glad I could help. The risers are nice because they allow you to build down without cutting
into the benchwork. For instance, on my current layout, I want to model a gorge. Since I didn't
use the risers to elevate my track, I now have to remove part of the benchwork to get the depth
that I need. Good luck, Dave

[MisterBeasley]

I just installed a fairly steep grade, using 2-inch pink foam as a single-piece riser. It worked out OK, but I wouldn't do it again. It is very difficult to cut this stuff precisely, so I ended up doing a lot of levelling by hand. To avoid the paper-thin taper at the end, I left the last foot or so at the bottom of the incline at a half-inch thick, and cut into the base foam to merge the pieces smoothly. On the high end, I put another wedge of foam under the ramp to get it the rest of the way up the hill.

After that experience, I'm doing the other side of the grade using classic open-benchwork T-risers made from 1x4 lumber. It's easier to do, and it's also more adjustable if I ever want to change it. If I wanted to adjust the grade of the foam ramp, I'd have to rip it out and start all over.

[Anonymous]

We are building our first layout with woodland scenic risers & inclines. The best parts are that you don't have to think about doing math in the middle of the night when you are doing inclines.

Having used both risers & inclines on top of the thick pink/blue foam we used as a base, it easily allows you to make decent changes in terrain for canyons, rivers, etc.

If you go this route, you really should consider buying a couple of boxes of the woodland scenics foam nails.... they are long enough to get through about anything and will help you keep things where they belong.

The only downsides to the woodland scennics stuff are:

1) it's pricey (but it makes life easy enough that it's worth it)

2) Your hobby shop will always be out of some thickness or incline, and you need that last bit to fini***hings up

3) The paper thin part where an incline starts always tears off, so yo'll have some messing to do to put it back where it belongs (I'm sure having a 6-yr old helper had nothing to do with this)

Our process was (after drawing the track plan down on the base) was to put some woodland scenics glue on the bottom (it has a longer working time), pin the risers (and then re-check the track, if you are paranoid), and then hit the edges with some hot glue (the low temperature stuff). We'd usually leave the foam pinned overnight or most of the day, to help with the setting of the glue.

One other piece of advice, if you are using inclines, rememb er that each % grade ends at a different height (1/2", 3/4", etc.) In otder to keep increasing your incline, you lay the next incline on to of a riser that has the same height as where the last incline left off, so you are building a sort of layered cake or something.... this is where planning a bit on what you are doing, and making sure you have purchased stuff you didn't think you needed comes in (and realizing that your hobby store is perpetually out of something) ;)

Hope this helps a bit.

[Anonymous]

Using a hotwire cutter (and a good face mask and ventillation), I'm pretty happy cutting blocks of pink foam. The foam also comes in 1/4" sheets, and the next thing I want to try is using this with cookie-cutter style risers -- cutting the sides but leaving the bottom edge attached to the original sheet -- and then gently lifting the track cut and sliding spacers between the rise and the bottom level.

Cheers,
Maureen

[electrolove]

malexenko:

Thanks for helping me out. This was very interesting reading. I have a question... What are you planning to use as roadbed on top of the risers and inclines?

Do you have any closeup pictures of the risers and inclines to share?

QUOTE: Originally posted by malexenko

We are building our first layout with woodland scenic risers & inclines. The best parts are that you don't have to think about doing math in the middle of the night when you are doing inclines.

Having used both risers & inclines on top of the thick pink/blue foam we used as a base, it easily allows you to make decent changes in terrain for canyons, rivers, etc.

If you go this route, you really should consider buying a couple of boxes of the woodland scenics foam nails.... they are long enough to get through about anything and will help you keep things where they belong.

The only downsides to the woodland scennics stuff are:

1) it's pricey (but it makes life easy enough that it's worth it)

2) Your hobby shop will always be out of some thickness or incline, and you need that last bit to fini***hings up

3) The paper thin part where an incline starts always tears off, so yo'll have some messing to do to put it back where it belongs (I'm sure having a 6-yr old helper had nothing to do with this)

Our process was (after drawing the track plan down on the base) was to put some woodland scenics glue on the bottom (it has a longer working time), pin the risers (and then re-check the track, if you are paranoid), and then hit the edges with some hot glue (the low temperature stuff). We'd usually leave the foam pinned overnight or most of the day, to help with the setting of the glue.

One other piece of advice, if you are using inclines, rememb er that each % grade ends at a different height (1/2", 3/4", etc.) In otder to keep increasing your incline, you lay the next incline on to of a riser that has the same height as where the last incline left off, so you are building a sort of layered cake or something.... this is where planning a bit on what you are doing, and making sure you have purchased stuff you didn't think you needed comes in (and realizing that your hobby store is perpetually out of something) ;)

Hope this helps a bit.

[Anonymous]

Alas, we didn't take any in progress pictures...really should have.... and it's all plastered over at this point. I think the woodland scenics webpage has some photos...they also have a good video that I'd recommend... it goes into the foam construction, the plastering, etc. It helped us out alot.

As for roadbed, we're using Kato Unitrack, which has the roadbed, bllast, etc built-in, so it wasn't a topic for us. I did get a little piece of the black foamy roadbed that woodland scenics has to level out a weird spot I had inside a tunnel. I know there are also some good cork products... but I'll have to defer the roadbed question to someone else.

Another poster mentioned a hot wire cutter. Get one of these. It's one of the best investments you can make if you are doing any foam work. AND, when you buy he wire cutter, buy an xtra hot wire... I've broken a couple, and it's lousy to have it happen at 11:00 at night.

Not that I work for woodland scenics or are promoting them, but I purchased both their low temperature hot glu gun and thier hot wire cutter, and feel that they were both great investments.

[electrolove]

malexenko:

How do so called 'Incline starters' work, why do I need them? Can you please explan that because I don't understand what Woodland Scenics mean on their page.

QUOTE: Originally posted by malexenko

We are building our first layout with woodland scenic risers & inclines. The best parts are that you don't have to think about doing math in the middle of the night when you are doing inclines.

Having used both risers & inclines on top of the thick pink/blue foam we used as a base, it easily allows you to make decent changes in terrain for canyons, rivers, etc.

If you go this route, you really should consider buying a couple of boxes of the woodland scenics foam nails.... they are long enough to get through about anything and will help you keep things where they belong.

The only downsides to the woodland scennics stuff are:

1) it's pricey (but it makes life easy enough that it's worth it)

2) Your hobby shop will always be out of some thickness or incline, and you need that last bit to fini***hings up

3) The paper thin part where an incline starts always tears off, so yo'll have some messing to do to put it back where it belongs (I'm sure having a 6-yr old helper had nothing to do with this)

Our process was (after drawing the track plan down on the base) was to put some woodland scenics glue on the bottom (it has a longer working time), pin the risers (and then re-check the track, if you are paranoid), and then hit the edges with some hot glue (the low temperature stuff). We'd usually leave the foam pinned overnight or most of the day, to help with the setting of the glue.

One other piece of advice, if you are using inclines, rememb er that each % grade ends at a different height (1/2", 3/4", etc.) In otder to keep increasing your incline, you lay the next incline on to of a riser that has the same height as where the last incline left off, so you are building a sort of layered cake or something.... this is where planning a bit on what you are doing, and making sure you have purchased stuff you didn't think you needed comes in (and realizing that your hobby store is perpetually out of something) ;)

Hope this helps a bit.

[dave9999]

Electro,
Incline starters are just that... Incline starters. The are tapered risers that go from about a 1/2" or maybe
3/4" on one end to nothing on the other. These are placed on the risers or foam base or whatever you
are useing for your tabletop. They start the incline from a flat surface. Good luck, Dave

[GMTRacing]

EL - you shouldn't need incline starters if you are using an entire incline kit which will raise the track 4" over all. The startes work well for the posted rises over a 2ft run to raise a main to a level where it will stay for instance. The WS risers and inclines worked well. I also covered them with the AMI instant roadbed but have had some troubles with the bed coming loose from the foam below (probably not clean enough). I used a few books to weight the track and bed down and that seems to have worked. The sides I covered with plaster cloth over crumpled paper or aluminum screen. I also had a dickens of a time with the transitions at the top of the inclines as I had a curve immediately after the tops on two and an 060 switcher would wheelie right off the track. shimming was needed and i finally planed the surface back to fix it. The other caution is the incline grade itself. The 2% probably works best, but I didn't use them as I didn't have 16 feet to make a rise. I used the 4% and I wish now I hadn't. My Athearn which will pull as many cars as I can hook to it on the flats will only pull 10 cars up the 4% grade. Use the easiest grade you can, you'll be better off for it. regards, J.R.

[dave9999]

J.R. is correct, the incline kit comes with everything you need to raise the track , including the starters. Dave

[electrolove]

If I use this:

ST1410 - 2% Incline Set (4" rise in 16')

It goes from nothing on one end to 4" on the other end, right? So if I understand this correctly I do not need a incline starter in this case?

My tabletop is 2" foam.

[dave9999]

EL,
That's correct. The incline set includes everything you need. Good luck, Dave

[electrolove]

A very big 'Thank You' to everyone that have helped me with this. I think I will go the Woodland Scenics way [:D]

[northern_blues]

I bought two of those kits (2 % rise) as each kits rise 4 inches in 16 feet alright but I needed to use one kit to rise to the 4 inch mark and the other to get back down to level.

Looks great.

-Dave

[dickiee]

I, too, have used the WS incline risers and have been most satisfied with them. I glued them to the pink foam surface with Liquid Nails for Foam Projects. Works very well. Price is right, too. I made my own regular risers by cutting them on a band saw. I also have had good luck cutting the foam with a 4'" long "shoe knife", however that is not as accurate as a band saw. I'm not sure where you could buy these knifes anymore...I have a dozen or more that I got where I used to work. They are easily sharpened and seem to last nearly forever. The people at work used them until they were dull and threw them away.

I Googled "shoe knife" and found several sites that had the knives for about $6 a piece. They are the all around handiest knife I have ever used.

[Anonymous]

For an incline starter, you MAY want to look at using a construction shim. You get them from your local hardware / lumber store. Dirt cheap. Very thin on one end, and about 1/4" thick on the other end, and about 12" long. Usually made out of cedar. Carpenters use them shimming doors and pretty much anything else you could think of. A bundle of them costs about $5, which contains maybe 100 of them? You could probably bum a few of them off a builder at a construction site.

Mark in Utah