L-girder Vs Open Grid

[Anonymous]

Hey guys
I am designing my first layout. Well trying atleast. So what are your guys' thoughts on benchwork? What is better? I will probally have like a 15x15 room and have a U shaped layout in it. What would be my options with these two types of benchwork?

[cwclark]

I've always prefered "L" girder bench work because it's so versitile..i can raise and lower my track with cleats and risers that just screw into the L girder joists...it's also easy to put in fascia on L girder benchwork without a lot of extra framing work..check out my webshot page..i have a step by step demonstration and photos of L girder benchwork..just click the right arrow button and the next 10-15 pictures cover the steps i took in building the L girder benchwork http://community.webshots.com/photo/137793353/143341248VlGagO

[Adelie]

I've done both and prefer L-girder. Once you get the hang of it, you can put together a lot of benchwork in a fairly short amout of time. Less "precise" carpentry skills needed, too.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Gee, I'm just the opposite, I've never liked L girder. Too light weight and flimsy for my taste and style. It is just as easy to do risers off grid, and fascia isn't a problem either. I guess the thing I don't like is that the cross members are only held on by a couple of screws. I like benchwork that I can walk on.

Another disadvantage is the total thickness of L girder, which is more than double that of similar frame construction. This makes a difference if you plan to have multiple levels, which many people do these days. If you are planning to fasten your benchwork to the walls, it makes little sense to use L girder.

[SpaceMouse]

I've not used L-girder, but I've only done one layout. I've used the open for years in construction so it was a natural.

QUOTE: I've always prefered "L" girder bench work because it's so versitile..i can raise and lower my track with cleats and risers that just screw into the L girder joists...

I've seen your site and admire your construction, however, I don't see how screwing cleats and risers is easier than figuring out your rise and spacing and nailing (or screwing) your risers into level plywood. With an air-nailer, I was able to install two perfectly-smooth, 9-foot inclines within an hour. Of course, that pre-supposes that your table is already flat.

[dehusman]

It depends onwhat you want your layout to look like and how permanent you expect your layout to be.

L-girder is great for layouts with a lot of flowing trackwork, grades and curves where the edge of the benchwork in the aisle will vary depending on the scene.

Open grid is great where you are going to maintain a fairly constant aisle width, where most of the tracks will be running parallel to the length of the grid and where you expect to have to move the layout. As witness to its moveability, virtually every modular system uses an open grid benchwork scheme.

I have used both, but then to use open grid becaus the benchwork is "thinner" and allows me more room under the layout for shelves, file cabinets, etc. I have one L girder section at the end of a peninsula to accomodate the turnback curve.

Dave H.

[cmrproducts]

I use both the L-girder and Open Grid.

The L-girder is for the lower level of the benchwork and it is strong enought to walk on just using 1x2 lumber. I do put the joists on 16 centers and the legs are at 4 ft centers.

For the upper levels I use open grid as it allows much thinner benchwork sections, which is needed with multi-level layouts.

Most of the upper level areas are just 6 to 8 inches wide and are attached to the walls without any supports. This keeps the lower level from having a post to the upper level. If I have to have a post I usually use an angle brace instead of a post.

The layout size is 25ft by 75ft so there is a lot of benchwork. It has been up for over 5 years and the benchwork is as stable and level as it was the day I built it. I am using 7/16" OSB board for the sub-base and Homasote on top of that. I then use HO cork on the mainline and N scale cork on the passing sidings. The track then lays on the Homasote in the yards and industrial tracks.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[rrinker]

I'm with you Big Boy, although maybe not for the same reason. I've always felt L-girder was a waste of wood. Leg bracing is more critical too for the reasons you cite.
The current section of my layout is built on 4 identical benchwork sections, each 2'x8', grid construction with crosspieces on 16" centers. I am not a carpenter or contractor, and I did it all in a saturday afternoon using a hand saw to cut the pieces. They're all square, they fit together just fine, and the foam tops went on nicely as well. Based on the strength of these, I might fo to 1x3's instead of 1x4's for the expansion. Except in special areas, I plan to just build more of these exact same boxes and line the basement walls with them. Now that I have a power saw, the will go together even faster.

--Randy

[jkeaton]

If you're doing benchwork that has to be moved, with tracks that will run in straight lines on level terrarin, open grid is good. If you like flowing curves, have an irregular space, and want maximum flexibility to change and move things, go L-girder.

Leg bracing is important with both - one way to reduce the problem is to attach the framework to the walls occasionally. Also, if you need storage, build some bookshelves in under your benchwork (or do as I'm doing and 'recycle' unwanted bookshelves from elsewhere, attaching the L-girder above). Both of these will make your bench work less vibration-prone.

Jim

[sansouci]

cwclark pix are great instructional tools. Thanks

[CBQ_Guy]

I'm a big fan of L-girder but will be using both on my new layout, depending on the location/situation. L-girder, BTW, is not flimsy at all. In my experience, too many people screw a couple of pieces of wood together at a 90 degree angle, use it somewhere in their benchwork, and announce to the world that their layout is L-girder. Actually, L-girder construction is an entire system and is also very strong and versato;e. One would need to buy the book by Linn Westcott, read it, UNDERSTAND it, and impliment it's methods to get the full potential of the system.

One thing I have discovered about open grid which I DO NOT like, is that it is very easy to end up with a joist which is in the "wrong place". This many times happens down the line after the benchwork is built, attached to the walls, trackwork has been laid, and you decide you want to mount a switch machine under the layout -- as one example. Rots-O-Ruk trying to relocate it easily at that point.

[nslakediv]

I use a combo of both and sometimes come up with some new stuff. what ever works for the situation.

[Anonymous]

I am trying something a little bit different- I will build it similar to L-girder construction.
I brought home from my work place 175 strips of 1/2 inch 4ply plywood that they were going to trash. They are 5 3/4 inches wide by 8 feet long. I am in the process of ripping some of them down on my tablesaw to 2 different sizes. I will then dado the narrow pcs. down the middle and glue and nail the wider pcs to them to fabricate wooden I beams. This type of construction should provide a very strong base that should resist warping. I can also use this type of constrution for building the legs.
It maybe labor intensive, but I like using my tools, It's fun for me. And since the wood was free, I was able to spend more money on the other things I need for my railroad.

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Metallicarocks28

So what are your guys' thoughts on benchwork? What is better?

I agree with what many others have said, this is really not an either/or question.

I recently designed a layout for a 1500 sq. ft. space and the client asked for a benchwork plan as well (his contractor built the benchwork). There are areas of L-girder, open grid, commercial shelf brackets, and various combinations and variations like waffle-style. Each of these has strengths and weaknesses and many layouts will benefit from a mix of benchwork types.

In your case, if the "U" is around-the-walls, you may find that (sturdy) commercial shelf brackets work well for many areas. Then just use whatever seems the best for the remaining areas. I often suggest L-girder for peninsulas and other areas that vary substantially in width and whose edges are irregular. Grid works well for larger flat expanses that have more regular dimensions. But either may be used for either!

It's my personal opinion that many people waste more time pondering the pluses and minuses of the various benchwork options than it would have taken to build the benchwork in the first place. It won't make much difference (if any) in the long run which you choose. But just getting on with it will let you get to the fun stuff (like running trains) more quickly.

Regards,

Byron
Model RR Blog

[orsonroy]

Personally, I don't like either L girder or box frame. Of course, I prefer simple shelf layouts, narrow layouts, and a LOOOONNNNGGG mainline. For that sort of construction, a simple tabletop with brackets screwed directly to the walls is the best construction method.

[selector]

My brother is in the construction business, and he advised me to make 42" pony walls. I made three and they run down the length of my 11-foot long layout ,spaced evenly. Also, unlike the typical 18" centres, mine were more like 30" since I wanted something I could horse over the basement floor, not a battleship.

It is heavy, for sure, especially with 5/8" plywood under the foam, but it is sturdy!

[caldreamer]

For my previous layout I used 2X4 legs screwed together in L form.  The 1X4 side frames were screwed to them.  Cross membrs were set on 24 " centers with risers as necessary for the 7/16" OSB subroad bed.  Homosote and cork then cork roadbed upon which I laid the track.  It was so sturdy that you could dance a jig on it. My new layout will not have most of the benchwork attached to the walls, but should be sturdy enough so that they will not move. I will have multiple penisnulas running length wise instead of just one  Any suggestions as to L girder or open gird a combination will be appreciated.

    Caldreamer 

[richhotrain]

It's about time, Cal.

Anonymous has been waiting 15 years for your reply.   

Rich

[SeeYou190]

I am going with a modified L-Girder system of my own design. I built a test segment of the layout as a proof of concept, and it has been a magnificent success.

-Kevin

[BATMAN]

If you have a good selection of power tools, build it using as many methods as you like. It is easy to whip something up that contorts to what you need when cutting takes seconds. 

[doctorwayne]

I used L-girder once on a previous layout, for a 12' long mid-room duck-under. 

However, for an around-the-room layout, I'd consider it a waste of lumber.  I have, where needed, free-flowing fascia and scenic contours both below and above track levels with open grid framework, along with a self-supported partial upper level....

I also have lots of under-layout storage space, both for model railroading purposes and general storage of tools and household items.
The fascia is a solid surface in which switches for electrical control can be mounted, along with plug-in receptacles for walk-around throttles, and control knobs for manually-operated turnouts.

Wayne

 

[riogrande5761]

doctorwayne

I used L-girder once on a previous layout, for a 12' long mid-room duck-under.  However, for an around-the-room layout, I'd consider it a waste of lumber.  I have, where needed, free-flowing fascia and scenic contours both below and above track levels with open grid framework, along with a self-supported partial upper level.

Yes, we see umpteen photo's of free-flowing fascia - a couple photo's would make the point but umpteen seems a bit of a show-off and I have to scroll alot. 

What you left unsaid but impied is you now use open grid?  Or a something else? (back to the central point of the topic)

[BATMAN]

Because of my tiny brain, I am a visual learner, keep 'em coming Wayne.

[riogrande5761]

BATMAN

Because of my tiny brain, I am a visual learner, keep 'em coming Wayne.

 

Me too, but I a lot require fewer pictures to get the point. 

[dehusman]

Just to confuse everybody, I don't use L-girder or open grid on my current layout.  I have brackets attached to the wall, so I don't need the "L" and avoid the grid.  I mount the switch controls and car card boxes into the fascia, so not having the grid facilitates that.  

There is also a benchwork style used by several modelers that is free-standing that doesn't use grids or L girders.  It consists of a series of legs made out of 1x4's that look like a "chair".  The back of the chair supports the backdrop and the seat of the chair is a joist like on L girder, but the only thing connecting the legs the backdrop, fascia and roadbed.  Since its all legs, I have called it centipede benchwork:

[rrinker]

 That's exactly how I'm building mine, brackets on the walls, no grid or girders.

                         --Randy

 

[doctorwayne]

 

riogrande5761

Yes, we see umpteen photo's of free-flowing fascia - a couple photo's would make the point but umpteen seems a bit of a show-off and I have to scroll alot....

Sorry, it was not my intention to over-tax your scrolling finger, Jim.

riogrande5761

...What you left unsaid but impied is you now use open grid?...

Not at all implied, but written out, as in the portion which you quoted...

doctorwayne

...I have, where needed, free-flowing fascia and scenic contours both below and above track levels with open grid framework...

I don't believe that I have veered off-topic anywhere, but you may have been distracted by the pictures.

Wayne

 

[trainnut1250]

doctorwayne

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wayne,

 

I haven't seen all of those angles before. Awesome fascia work. I love the way the lines flow!!!!

 

Guy

[doctorwayne]

Thanks, Guy.  That support post couldn't be relocated, so the layout had to fit-in around it.  That's the tightest "pinch-point" in the layout room, but plenty of room there for two of me to fit through at the same time.
Lucky that I'm the sole operator.

Wayne