Shopping Experience

[Bennekers]

It has been a while that I ordered some stuff due to moving. Recently I tried to order a few items from the Walthers catalog, nothing special, Station Platform, Ground Throws etc.
I called Trainworld, someone answered the phone right away, then put me on hold for about 5 minutes then someone else came on to ask what I was holding for. After ordering the first item I found out they did not really sell Walther catalog items (e.g Ground Throws), so I cancelled.
Called Internet Trains, same story. The night before I had looked at their web side, but since I have dial up it took too long.
To make a long story short I ended up ordering through my LHS, don't know yet if I get everything.
Does any body have better experience, suggestions?
In the past for tracks and roadbed I ordered from Hobby Surplus, which was not too bad (they don't have much Walther's stuff either).
Thanks.

[Javern]

I order Walthers stuff off their website

[knewsom]

I always use www.1stplacehobbies.com for my layout items. They are pretty quick at delivery and they offer a fairly good discount. You can find what you want by using the Walthers Part numbers.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

[Bennekers]

I used the part numbers. I was not sure about 1stplacehobbies.com, try them next time.
Javern, if I order directly to Walthers don't you pay full price and shipping and handling? At least through the LHS I don't pay S & H.

[ndbprr]

if you think about it Walthers is just another mail order company in direct competition to the ones you tried so it fits they don't want to deal with Walthers. In my opinion and a noted minority one I think Walthers controls too much of the hobby and shouldn't be allowed to decide how much is produced by Mom and Pops in addition to their own offerings.

[simon1966]

I use the Walthers web site for research, but would never order from them direct. Everything is at full list. I buy my track and roadbed and other basic scenery supplies locally. I use e-bay a lot for structures. I use Litchfield station for DCC stuff. For the time being I am controlling my rolling stock and locomotive purchases as I really have plenty and need to concentrate on the layout construction.

[davekelly]

I'll have to disagree with some of the posts here. Walthers is not in direct competition with places like 1stplacehobbies etc. If they were in competition, Walthers would, I assume, be able to undercut their prices (especially Walthers kits). Walthers does not though. They sell to retailers at such a price that these retailers can sell for under list and still make a profit. I have ordered from Walthers a few times when I couldn't find certain items anywhere else. Yes, I paid list, but I got them. Walthers offers a win win. Selling to retailers at a price that allows the retailers establi***he price they sell to us and also selling to us at a price that protects the LHS and other retailers, but still allows us to buy things that we can't find.

[Anonymous]

My 2 cents worth...

Modeltrainstuff.com (MB Klein Inc) is great! They process orders fast, and are well priced and good quality. I live in Canada so even with delays at customs they are great. I've used them 3 times and had a positive experience eachtime.

InternetTrains.com (a Yahoo Online Store) I found slow and though the price was good. Delivery from California took forever! (again...I'm in Canada Eh!)

Accurail was great to deal with from a customer service standpoint, good pricing and fast delivery 5 days from order to receipt of product!

Walthers was processed my order very fast, but delivery time was disappointing compared to Accurail.

IHC was pathetic. They had a problem with my order, and instead of calling me to straighten it out right away, they made a note in my file to "wait for customer to call". Since I heard of no such trouble I waited for the normal delivery time. It came and went and still not loco. So I called them, at which time (3 weeks after I placed the order) they informed me of said problem. Oddly we were able to sort it out in about 1 minute. Then another 3 weeks pass and I call them again. They have the wrong address setup for delivery, but make the correction because they have not shipped it yet. They say they will ship it the next day. I called the next day at which time they tell me they have shipped it and it will arrive in 14 business days. I received the loco I had ordered from them exactly 14 business days later. 8 weeks!!! Not impressed. I will not order from them again.

That's my shopping experience, I wish you well with yours.

Trevor

[:)]

[DSchmitt]

I agree with ndpbrr that Walthers controls too much of the hobby in the USA. I have heard that Walthers can be ruthless in dealing with small manufacturers.

I also agree with davekelly that Walthers is very careful to not be in direct competetion with its wholesale customers.

I have purchased direct from them, but usually go to the hobby shop.

[Anonymous]

davistrains.com is pretty good. I buy from them locally (in their retail store). I have never had anything shipped from them, but have spent a lot of money there, and they have the lowest average prices anywhere I have seen, including comparison to discounttrains.com and others online, and say that they can order anything from the Walthers reference book. While I could not say for 100% certainty, I would strongly believe that they would have very good shipping service.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: www.davistrains.com is pretty good. I buy from them locally (in their retail store).

petejung,

you must live in my old stomping grounds. I lived in Clermont County most of my life untill getting married (second time) and moving to Oxford a few years ago. Davis Trains is great. Are you going to the Train Show at the Convention Center this weekend?

[tommann]

I have used Internet Trains numerous times with excellent results. Recently, I have been using FirstHobbies for a number of items because of better prices. I have been real happy ordering thru the Internet from both of these web-sites and will continue to do so, Sorry, but I do not support my LHS because the prices are too high - the same goes for Walthers.

Tom Mann.

[Anonymous]

The only time I order "direct" from Walthers is through their Terminal Hobby shop outlet sale catalog. Otherwise it's the LHS for me.

[Anonymous]

One of the things I have noticed when ordering over the phone from hobby shops is that they will act like they have the item in stock when they don't. They will take the order and your credit card info and then turn around and order it from Walthers or the distributor. Weeks will go by and no order arrives at your door. You call and find out it is back ordered!!! I now insist that they check to see if the item is in stock before I will place an order. This usually eliminates most difficulties that I have with mail order.

I am not a fan of Walthers for lots of reasons. I think their catalog does serve a purpose and that their cornerstone series certainly has a place. I know several small manufacturers who won't deal with them because of their treatment of the smaller guys. I try not to pay full list, so I don't order from them. If I am paying full list and it is a small manufacturer, I would rather order direct from them. I am always amused at Walthers sale flyers that come around with discount prices that are the same as the LHS (without the shipping).

[Anonymous]

Is there a way to order a walthers catalog? I would like to take a look a what products they have to offer but by the sounds of things I woun't order directly from them.

[davekelly]

metallicarocks28
I usually purchase mine at the LHS. Various internet retailers also sell the catalog, or you can order directly from Walthers at walthers.com. I've ordered several times directly from walthers. Mostly detail parts that are not stocked by any LHS or internet dealer that I could find. Of course the price was full list - see my post above about why I think that is so.

dave

[cmrproducts]

Where do you think that most of the LHS get their model railroad stuff from? Walthers!

Why? Because they are the largest warehouse and they are a showcase for the many small manufacturers.

If the small manufacturers don't like Walthers way, why do they then deal with them? National distribution!

This ruthlessness is Walthers wanting the small operation to be able to produce the product in quantities and a production schedule to meet the demand of sales. If you can't then don't complain that they are ruthless as they are trying to sell your product. If you can't produce it then why sell it.

And buying direct from Lifelike, Atlas and Kato, you have to purchase thousands of dollars at a time. The LHS is in no position to do this unless they are doing internet sales.

If you haven’t been in the business you have no idea!

Been there!

BOB H Clarion, PA

[jwr_1986]

I was lucky enough to find an excellent hobby shop. you mention upstate as you location. If that mean NY there is a good one in Kingston known as J&J Hobbies. Also in Lake Ariel, PA is a shop where the owner has the right attitude. He's very willing to take time and talk to you and he makes the extra effort to get products that his suppliers don't usually carry.

Jesse

[Bennekers]

I am in the Southern Tier, Binghamton area. There are 2 LHS here that I know off, one kind of insulted me so I am not going back there. I understand now that he is from NJ, which may explain it, or I am too sensitive. Hope I did not offend anyone in NJ, originally I am from the Netherlands so this is not from personal experience but what people here tell me.

[rcl1930]

I'm a life long resident of NJ, and take offense to your remark. NJ has nothing to do with your shopping experience. Now getting past that, just think about what you really are asking.

As far as discount mail orders goes, you should look into Standard Hobby and Model Railroad Post Office (both in good old NJ) which have ads in MR / RMC. Both have been in operation for 20+ years that I can think of, and are very responsive in filling orders that are in stock.


Many Mail Order places only stock the most popular items ( high volume, low risk, ) and can avoid the overhead of having all that "stuff" that you need only once and a while, but when YOU need it, you expect it to be available. There is little profit for slow moving items even a list price. Mail Orders are skimming the easy money that the LHS depends on to carry all those other things you expect but rarely buy. NO wonder LHS are becoming scarcer all the time.


Anyone looking at ordering will find that S+H usually is more than the sales tax that you pay to the LHS, and you don't get stuck for additional S+H when your order is shipped in pieces.

In NJ we have a LOT of LHS throughout the state, so the trip often isn't all that far. Most are list or 10% off, and many are more than willing to special order stuff for you. If it is in stock at the distributor, orders are filled in a week. I can call in an order, and pick it up the next time I'm there. Some shops do lay a way and become your banker since they have paid out while waiting for you to eventually pay up, or worse you change your mind so they get stuck with something they normally wouldn't stock. No way to run a business but a convenience for their customers. You won't get that from your discount mail orders. Most LHS have some type of repair service available. While that will cost you, its better than not being able to use something because you don't know how to or get the parts to repair something.

LHS vs Mail order is a long running discussion item in a lot of forums. Support your LHS when you can. Don't insult them by expecting them to match the big discounts in mail order. Think long term about how you are going to get those lower volume items.

Do I use mail order - YES when it suits my needs. I also go to Train Shows, but usually only get things that aren't available elsewhere. The LHS is the real back bone of the Hobby. Getting 30-50% off does get my attention from a mail order, but a 10 - 20% discount isn't all that much to make it worth the effort to deal with mail order operations and the hidden costs of bad experiences and getting blocked out of limited run items because the Mail Orders don't want to get stuck with inventory. A LHS can get those for you, and if you become a good customer you may find that they will give you a better price break for preordering.


Rich Laube,
Ewing NJ

50 + years in the hobby, with a LOT of shopping experience .

DISCLAIMER: I've never owned, run or even worked in a LHS / Mail Order house. I travel around the county a lot, and check out LHS when I can. The scarcity of LHS and their inventory cause real concern for other to get the products they need.

[Bennekers]

Rich,

I apologize, the fact was this hobby store owner was very rude and happened to be from NJ. He has a nice store, but the last thing I need is to be insulted by a LHS owner.
I agree with your story, that is how an LHS should be, else I might as well order everything from mail order if there is no service.
Thanks for your input.

[camarokid]

I order or buy 95% of my train items from my LHS mostly because I know them and they know me (30 years). If they don't have it in stock it's an automatic 10% off. I know they order from Walthers, but that doesn't bother me. I went today and bought 5 MDC kit cars for 6-7 dollars apiece. To me that's pretty good considering the price for RTR which is twice that. I will say that the kit section is getting smaller all the time. Doesn't anyone know how to build these anymore? All you really need is a screwdriver. I know of grown men who pay someone else to build these cars for them. How sad is that. The soapbox will now be vacated.
Archie

[Anonymous]

I've had an interest in Model railroading for as long as I can remember. I've only started my first layout three years ago when I found a suitable basement. I'm a truck driver and I've stopped into many hobby shops up and down the east coast over the first ten years of my career. There are some that I wish I lived close to, the people were fantastic to talk too. Some shop owners acted as though I wasn't even in the store. In one, the guy was reading the paper, I said hello when I walked in, he said nothing. I asked a question about something and he muttered I don't know. I live in New Hampshire now and work out of Portland Me. I have found a terrific LHS in Falmouth Me. The owner takes the time to answer all my questions, has even fixed a couple of my mistakes for FREE. I do very little mail order, as he has never failed to find whatever I ask for. I did order some track and roadbed from 1stplacehobbies.com and was pleased with the price and the speed of delivery.