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What is the most efficient design for this rail yard?

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What is the most efficient design for this rail yard?
Posted by Dandy221 on Monday, May 22, 2023 1:50 PM

Hi everyone, new guy here.  

I'm struggling to come up with an efficient yard design for a processing facility.  We have one line coming in and splitting twice for a total of 4 parallel lines.  The unloading facility is about the midpoint in the yard with room for a full train above and below the unload facility.  Material is unloaded and processed into 4 products which is where I am having some planning issues as I only have 3 open lines since line 1 needs to stay open for deliveries.  

One option may be to build another track so my tracks match my products but I feel like there is a better way to do this.  With 4 products needing to be shipped out on 3 lines what is best way to build in optionallity (and car storage) into those three lines?  I'm thinking about putting two sets of switches between the three product lines near the middle of the yard so products can be shuttled around as needed.  Curious if I'm missing something obvious.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, May 22, 2023 5:17 PM

Welcome to the forum.  Initially your posts are delayed in moderation.

Someone is going to want to know: what is your industry?

Do the products need to be shipped from separate lines?

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, May 22, 2023 7:56 PM

Being a visual person, can you pls provide a schematic?

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, May 22, 2023 8:23 PM

kasskaboose
can you pls provide a schematic?

The OP is going to need to read this post to do that.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by NVSRR on Monday, May 22, 2023 8:33 PM

Which product is being delivered and what is out bound?  In some cases that does play a determination in how the rail access is laid out

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by MidlandMike on Monday, May 22, 2023 9:22 PM

If there is a product that is outbound less than daily, put it at the end of one of the stub tracks, and then you can load a product with daily output on the same track that won't block the occasional outbound load.

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Posted by wrench567 on Monday, May 22, 2023 11:14 PM

   Inbound is going to be outbound on a one per one basis? Sorry but not feasible. There has to be some sort of ratio and waste. Many years in the sand and gravel business has shown that no matter how big the rock is going into the crusher, you will always have more fines (sand, silt, and dust.) Over sized rock.

  When I built my sand and gravel plant and yard modules. My outbound tracks can have 7 sand hoppers, 5 three quarter minus gravel hoppers and 4 three inch ballast hoppers per switch shift. The plant gets fed directly from the pit by haul truck. The switcher takes empties that was dropped off by a local. The switcher then removes the loaded cars and replaced them with empties. The loads are set on a scale track lead where another crew would push each hopper on the scale. Another switch crew would pull the scaled car and set it on an outbound track to wait for a local to take away. The gravel plant can be a busy place. Another scenario is a single switcher doing the whole job in a day and then taking the loads to the marshalling yard at the end.

     Pete

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Posted by Dandy221 on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 11:35 AM

BigDaddy

 Thank you for the picture how to, I'll get one posted shortly

 
kasskaboose
can you pls provide a schematic?

 

The OP is going to need to read this post to do that.

 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 12:59 PM

wrench567
 Inbound is going to be outbound on a one per one basis? Sorry but not feasible. There has to be some sort of ratio and waste. Many years in the sand and gravel business has shown that no matter how big the rock is going into the crusher, you will always have more fines (sand, silt, and dust.) Over sized rock.

Although this does also depend on the exact material involved, how you define "one car," and an assumption that all material is handled via railcar.  "Processed" does have a lot of wiggle room.  You could be having a single carload of steel slab coming in, being processed, and that slab producing enough to constitute a single carload of outbound rolled product or sheet material.

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Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 1:46 PM

NittanyLion

 

 
wrench567
 Inbound is going to be outbound on a one per one basis? Sorry but not feasible. There has to be some sort of ratio and waste. Many years in the sand and gravel business has shown that no matter how big the rock is going into the crusher, you will always have more fines (sand, silt, and dust.) Over sized rock.

 

Although this does also depend on the exact material involved, how you define "one car," and an assumption that all material is handled via railcar.  "Processed" does have a lot of wiggle room.  You could be having a single carload of steel slab coming in, being processed, and that slab producing enough to constitute a single carload of outbound rolled product or sheet material.

 

    It could go the other way also. One load of lumber could be made into several loads of furniture. What I was pointing out is that it's very rare for a one to one trade in processing anything. Three steel coil rolls could be pressed into thousands of washing machine drums.

    Without knowing what the OP is processing, we're only guessing and giving examples.

          Pete.

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Posted by Dandy221 on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 2:32 PM

Alright, lets try this link.  https://ibb.co/fkd91k2

inbound and outbound won't on a 1-1 basis but will be close.  Think pit run gravel that is sized or combined with additional materail to make sand, gravel, rip rap, and cementatious materail.

If the link works you will see the old vs a concept layout.  Line 1 on the right hand side is reserved for inbound traffic with 4 products being shipped out on lines 2-4.  Some of the products like the rip rap are low volume so will take time to make a  full shipment so there is some residence time when they need to be parked.  I love optionallity so with the new design any coming in could be transferred to any other line and allows for total flexibility.  I added two diagonal switching lines but there may be a more optional way to do it.

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 5:08 PM

Both are a common desigsn for facilities. loads in on one side.  cars go through the loading unloading. and stacked in the other end.    Only thing I could see is making the tracks to long or short for the activity of inbound out bound.    since model railroad space is at a preimium.   both designs are good designs.  I am still confused as to what products are inbound and outbound.  that makes a huge difference in design of the track layout and operation depending on what it is.    dont forget. empties have to be accounted for too.

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by wrench567 on Tuesday, May 23, 2023 8:10 PM

  Had a feeling it was aggregate. See my post above. What time frame are you modeling?  I'm a transition era modeler so that is why there's a static scale station. Modern load out facilities will have weigh in motion and or pre weighted before hitting the hoppers. I built a load out facility at my job with a belt scale on the conveyor that was incredibly accurate. Riprap would require some special handling to keep from tearing up equipment and breaking the product. Sand and aggregate for concrete and asphalt will be washed and dewatered. Sand and smaller aggregate would go through sand screws and or log washers. Log washers are not as common as they used to be. Crushers are high maintenance items and you could find spare parts and worn out parts close to them.

  The new layout would be a better design and offer more flexibility when things change.

   If you have any questions. Don't be shy.

        Pete.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, May 24, 2023 3:57 AM

Dandy221
lets try this link

https://i.ibb.co/By2Gzyt/Layout.jpg

Just so you know, right click on your IMGBB image, copy image link and use the Photo Icon to add to your post

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Colorado Ray on Wednesday, May 24, 2023 7:27 PM

I think the revised design is overly complex.  I'd even simplify the original design.

Assuming you bring in ungraded "pit run" aggregate, your'e going to need space to process (screen and wash) and then store the different "products".  Therefore, I'd put an unloading facility on the lead opposite of the original design loading facility.  Between the tracks, I'd have the processing facility and four vertical silos, one for each of the four products.  The silos would be connected to the loadout via conveyors.  The manufacturer would chose which silo (product) to load for each outbound car.  Therefore, you only need one track through the loading facility.  I'd also eliminate tieing the lower "empty" yard tracks together, saving you four switches.  

Operationally, a cut of inbound unprocessed aggregate would be pushed through the unloader and into any of the lower empty tracks.  Since they are empty it wouldn't matter which track they get stored on.  Outbound cars would be pulled through the loading facility, with the company deciding which silo to empty per the order for a specific product.  The loaded cars would be put in any of the outbound yard tracks since they can be blocked at the main rail yard.   The only reason to sort the outbound cars by product is if you plan on running unit trains of one specific product direct from the processing facility. 

 

Ray

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