So Doug, what is the lead length of the turnouts you have?
From the tip of the points to the tip of the frog?
Sheldon
Just before Peco replaced the #6 Insulfrog with the Unifrog, I bought some of the final Peco #6 Insulfrogs. They measure 9 5/32" in length, and the "lead-length" is 6 1/4" from the tip of the point to the point of the frog.
The Atlas Custom Line #6 turnout is exactly 12.0" in length, and the "lead-length" is 7" from the tip of the point to the point of the frog.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich, I am puzzled by your measurements. The two Atlas turnouts on my desk right now measure 7" lead length. I will take a picture when I get back home.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, I am puzzled by your measurements. The two Atlas turnouts on my desk right now measure 7" lead length. I will take a picture when I get back home. Sheldon
But, no good deed goes unpunished!
Sheldon, you are correct. The lead-length on the Atlas is 7.0", and the lead-length on the Peco is 6 1/4". My bad. I was measuring from the tip of the point to the beginning of the frog, not the "point of the frog".
I corrected my previous reply.
This measurement should be to the tip of the frog point, that is where the two gage lines or riding surfaces intersect.
No worries.
So the PECO is 1/4" longer than their own drawing, but still enough shorter than the Atlas to make the closure radius smaller, and make the whole thing more compact.
And a reminder, the straight route on the Atlas is longer to make yard ladders with 2" centers on the diverging routes - it can be cut off if needed.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No worries. So the PECO is 1/4" longer than their own drawing, but still enough shorter than the Atlas to make the closure radius smaller, and make the whole thing more compact. And a reminder, the straight route on the Atlas is longer to make yard ladders with 2" centers on the diverging routes - it can be cut off if needed. Sheldon
Do we have data on the length and lead-length of the Walthers Code 83 #6 turnout?
richhotrain Do we have data on the length and lead-length of the Walthers Code 83 #6 turnout? Rich
Not on the new ones, I might have an old one somewhere here to measure. But in recent times I have only bought double slips from Walthers.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Do we have data on the length and lead-length of the Walthers Code 83 #6 turnout? Rich Not on the new ones, I might have an old one somewhere here to measure. But in recent times I have only bought double slips from Walthers. Sheldon
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Do we have data on the length and lead-length of the Walthers Code 83 #6 turnout? Rich Not on the new ones, I might have an old one somewhere here to measure. But in recent times I have only bought double slips from Walthers. Sheldon Thanks, Sheldon. I was inquiring about the new ones. Rich
Thanks, Sheldon. I was inquiring about the new ones.
Agreed, it would be interesting to know.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Do we have data on the length and lead-length of the Walthers Code 83 #6 turnout? Rich Not on the new ones, I might have an old one somewhere here to measure. But in recent times I have only bought double slips from Walthers. Sheldon Thanks, Sheldon. I was inquiring about the new ones. Rich Agreed, it would be interesting to know. Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL This measurement should be to the tip of the frog point, that is where the two gage lines or riding surfaces intersect. Sheldon
Well, I've learned something.
I grabbed an old Atlas code 83 #6 turnout and measured the lead length exactly as shown. Its 6 5/8s. Turns out its a Super Switch.
The lead length of my code 83 Custom Line #6 is 7".
I always thought the difference in those two Atlas code 83 turnouts was just the throwbar supports and excess track at the diverging route. Turns out the geometry is slightly different too, with the SS being more compact overall when the excess track is removed.
There is a material difference in track planning with Custom Lines vs the SS. I never knew that.
And why would Atlas bother to take the expense to design two different geometrys of their two code 83 #6 turnouts? What is the point?
My Peco Insulfrog #6 lead length measures 6.25 inches.
Meanwhile, the Unifrog #6 template's lead length measures 5 7/8ths.
- Douglas
The answer is easy, the super switch was supplied by a different vendor. Are they still selling those?
I did not know it was different either. I never bought them because I never liked that feature with Walthers either, the extra long straight diverging route.
I often thought the super switch was being made by a different vendor, but this likely confirms it.
As so it is in between the Custom Line and the PECO, and 6.5" is the NMRA Recommended Practice lead length for a #6.
I have always known the Custom Line #6 is more gradual than NMRA RP's.
UPDATE: They are still listed on the Atlas website. When they came out, I wondered if they had plans for a secound intire line with features more like Walthers and then decided against it?
Hi all
What I think has happened is that Peco had a typo, they put length as 223mm when it should be 232mm or 233mm. They have then made the scale to match 223mm which means the template is short by 9 or 10mm, or 3/8".
I found this when i printed some Unifrog templates and found they were shorter than the Insulfrog templates I had on hand. Forum members assured me that the Unifrog were the same dimensions as Insulfrog. Now that I have Unifrogs on hand I can confirm they match the Insulfrog template. And yes the lead from point of frog to end of point rail is 6 1/4" as best I can measure.
Sheldon, not doubting your use of Atlas. I've just got a small switching layout on 20" wide shelves so all is in reach. I initially had tortoises with stationery decoders but much happier now with finger flicking.
bagal
bagal Hi all What I think has happened is that Peco had a typo, they put length as 223mm when it should be 232mm or 233mm. They have then made the scale to match 223mm which means the template is short by 9 or 10mm, or 3/8". I found this when i printed some Unifrog templates and found they were shorter than the Insulfrog templates I had on hand. Forum members assured me that the Unifrog were the same dimensions as Insulfrog. Now that I have Unifrogs on hand I can confirm they match the Insulfrog template. And yes the lead from point of frog to end of point rail is 6 1/4" as best I can measure. Sheldon, not doubting your use of Atlas. I've just got a small switching layout on 20" wide shelves so all is in reach. I initially had tortoises with stationery decoders but much happier now with finger flicking. bagal
Here is a little story for you, way back before DCC, I thought it would be really great to be able to control turnouts from a hand held throttle. I even developed a concept design to do that on a small layout but never built it.
Fast forward 30 years, I helped a friend build a large DCC controlled layout and he put decoders on all the turnouts to allow control from the Digitrax throttles. Turned out to be a terrible way to control tunouts, far too cumbersome.
Why push five buttons when you can push one? or just flip a ground throw?
All my industrial trackage is ground throws, I just need electrical contacts on them as well, so I use little slide switches as ground throws.
I also prefer the electrical design of the Atlas, a feature not available on PECO until the Unifrog.
Already have almost every turnout I need........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The answer is easy, the super switch was supplied by a different vendor. Are they still selling those? I did not know it was different either. I never bought them because I never liked that feature with Walthers either, the extra long straight diverging route. I often thought the super switch was being made by a different vendor, but this likely confirms it. As so it is in between the Custom Line and the PECO, and 6.5" is the NMRA Recommended Practice lead length for a #6. I have always known the Custom Line #6 is more gradual than NMRA RP's. Sheldon UPDATE: They are still listed on the Atlas website. When they came out, I wondered if they had plans for a secound intire line with features more like Walthers and then decided against it?
NMRA standards may be the answer. Perhaps Atlas wanted to also offer a turnout that was closer to the 6.5" lead length than the Custom Line (which turnout came first in their line up?).
Just by eyeball, the new Walthers turnout and even the older Shinohara look similar to the Super Track-83 (Switch) in terms of geometry. Closer to the NMRA recommendation.
Yes, that is very possible. And they would be very reluctant to change the Custom Line, they have a 70 year history of track plan books with that geometry.