Hey guys so I am newly returned to the hobby (when I left DCC was in its infancy). I am starting to acquire more equipment and make a track plan. I have a good amount of Atlas turnouts with the surface mounted machines but as you know they look God awful on a layout. Like most I like to save as much money as I can. Tortoise motors are pricey, especially when your track plan has a ton of turnouts and is not even close to being done. Does anyone have any inexpensive options to automate turnouts or at the very least what does everyone do to hide your surface mount atlas style switch machines if you use them?
Do they all have to be automated? I'm planning a layout and am thinking most of my yard turnouts are going to be within reach of my hands so why complicate things with lots of extra wiring and switch machines.
To that end, I'm moving more to Peco or ME switches which have the built in spring so do not even need a manual or powered machine.
I do have a number of Atlas turnouts still so there is Caboose Industries and others for manual throw.
Atlas also makes lower cost under the table machines you can use and cost less and get the job done. I have a few of those still.
The only place I have ever used the above surface Atlas machines is in staging where I don't care about appearance.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I use caboose industries manual ground throws for all my turnouts except for one which is in a location essentially behind a building where I installed an Atlas surface mount auto switch. You may be able to scenic around the surface mount machine but I am not sure that you have any other alternative other than the ones identified by riogrande.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Yeah I saw the Atlas under table mounted ones. Hopefully the throw arm is long enough. I also hear you can flip the surface mount ones and use a left for right and right for left. I have some scenic ground cover ideas to disguise surface mounted ones but these methods won't work well in a large yard. I would rather have most if not all automated personally. I guess I was wondering if anyone has found any other motor methods. Maybe with some inexpensive chinese electronics or servos that can be bought in bulk. I know there are some smart and crafty people that come up with some really creative things.
Looks like peco may be a good option depending on how much they run. The servo option sounds cool if that process can be streamlined.. Thanks Mel!
Definitely let me know how you make out. I still need to figure out if I am going to use a servo on my bascule bridge too.
CTConrail Hopefully the throw arm is long enough.
Hopefully the throw arm is long enough.
I think mine were long enough to reach through a layer of 1/2 inch plywood and 1/2 inch homasote. Also 1/2 inch plywood and a layer of cork, which is thinner.
I also hear you can flip the surface mount ones and use a left for right and right for left.
Yes, you can flip the throw bar and use them on the opposite side; I've done that also:
The photo shows one of the turnouts with the flipped throw bar. Those are code 100 Atlas #6. I sold the nine I had recently to switch to Peco code 100 large for staging.
. I would rather have most if not all automated personally.
I felt that way on on my last layout but found it was more work than I cared to do to wire them all up and to controllers. Next time around I'm just going to throw them by hand. In some ways less work because I can go straight to the turnout and bam, rather than go to a control panel and look back and forth between the panel and the turnout to be sure I threw the right one, if you get my drift. KIS principle, keep it simple.
As for cheap machines, who knows, maybe China makes something. I think Atlas are the cheapest made for the model train market I've seen.
Oh no I meant like flip the machine and mount it underneath but good too know you can flip the throw arm too. Who knows how I will feel once i start building. I may need to put all automated on my upper deck but not sure yet. I don't mind wiring or electronics at all.
Mel which thread of Randy's are you talking about?
There's always the old music wire with a knob in the fascia approach as well, if you don't need / want the automation.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
Mel, those turnout controls really need 2.250 *INCH* holes for their throw? Or is the 2" in line with the track center? I mean the picture looks like maybe an inch, inch and a quarter wide
Peco motors clip right to the bottom of the turnout, so the hole has to be big enough for the whole thing, not just an actuating rod like with a completely under-table machine.
For cheap, you can't beat servos, less than $2 each, but you do need a control circuit of some sort. There are many options which come out far less expensive per turnout than a Tortoise. And they are TINY, a 9G servo is even smaller than a Peco motor.
Not sure why you think they are slow, Mel. They are as slow or fast as you make them - in fact if you just toggle between two positions, they move far faster than a Tortoise. You have to actually deliberately slow them down to not get a wham-wham action and act more like a Tortoise. The code for my controller shows that - I only move the servo 2 degees every 50ms or so to slow it down. If I just wrote it so that hitting normal set it to say 40 degrees and reverse set it to 140 degrees, they would go zip-zip back and forth. Most of the commercial controllers offer options to set both the endpoints as well as the speed.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Not sure why you think they are slow, Mel. They are as slow or fast as you make them - in fact if you just toggle between two positions, they move far faster than a Tortoise.
I have some switchmaster machines and they points move somewhat slowly and more prototypically than say those that are thrown with a twin coil like Atlas or Peco, which "snap" over fast.
Maybe that's what Mel is referring to?
Randy do you have a write up and or pictures of the process you used with the micro servos? I would like to gather as much data as I can now and keep it in a folder on my computer so when I finally am able to start building I have to do minimal research. Good idea about the music wire Dan. I didn't think of that.
rrinker Not sure why you think they are slow, Mel. They are as slow or fast as you make them - in fact if you just toggle between two positions, they move far faster than a Tortoise. You have to actually deliberately slow them down to not get a wham-wham action and act more like a Tortoise. The code for my controller shows that - I only move the servo 2 degees every 50ms or so to slow it down. If I just wrote it so that hitting normal set it to say 40 degrees and reverse set it to 140 degrees, they would go zip-zip back and forth. Most of the commercial controllers offer options to set both the endpoints as well as the speed. --Randy
Yeah then I guess for you the Peco motors make sense Mel. Me on the other hand, I am starting from scratch so using servos sounds like it may be a good option. Hopefully Randy has a writeup or some kind of instruction on how to successfully install them.
RR_Mel
"The hole in the tie must be centered between the hole in the throw arm from the max point travel"
Mel can you state that another way?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Mel I even misunderstood which tie.
The fixed tie get's it's hole in the center.
The throwbar tie is drilled halfway between a point where the manufacturers' throw bar hole is centered in the turnout to a the point where the throw bar is fully thrown?
I think a bell crank device would work best for mounting Atlas machines under the table. Could be made from brass rod, tube and a hex-screw collar.
Also, I've seen the old style Atlas switch machines fitted with a home-made SPDT switch for frog power. The power switch was made from two strips of thin plastic, one strip had a copper disc glued to it which was wired to the frog, the other strip had two discs, wired to the respective rails. The switch machine slide button provided the "throw", sliding one strip against the other. I think these could be made for pennies each; the trick would be coming up with a reliable design.
Jim
Hint - the current Servo library for Arduino is not limited to the PWM pins only - you cna put a servo on any digital pin.
I'm going DIY this time, but last time I used controllers from Tam Valley. I used Singlets, and provided my own servo by getting them from eBay. If you don;t need DCC operation of the turnout, the Octopus is much more cost effective on a per turnout basis - it controls 8, but doesn;t come with DCC capability (though you can add it later, he sells an add-on module that adds DCC control to the Octopus). I didn;t really research others, I was quite happy with the service and support I got from Tam Valley.
My new DIY design will actually be fairly inexpensive per turnout, but it is also overkill for most people. I'm incorproating dispatcher lockout and control, and absoolutely bulletproof frog polarity control.
If DIY, by means of simply following someone else's instructions, is an option, Geoff Bunza has a circuit that drives a lot of servos, with pushbuttons for remote control. TOtal cost should be no more than $4-5 per turnout, including the switch motor (servo), controller (Arduino) and the buttons. Depending on where you buy the stuff from.
rrinker Hint - the current Servo library for Arduino is not limited to the PWM pins only - you cna put a servo on any digital pin. I'm going DIY this time, but last time I used controllers from Tam Valley. I used Singlets, and provided my own servo by getting them from eBay. If you don;t need DCC operation of the turnout, the Octopus is much more cost effective on a per turnout basis - it controls 8, but doesn;t come with DCC capability (though you can add it later, he sells an add-on module that adds DCC control to the Octopus). I didn;t really research others, I was quite happy with the service and support I got from Tam Valley.
Randy do you have any info on how to get this done? A write up and pictures possibly? I have never used a servo before or an arduino for that matter although I would like to learn. Thanks!
Can't post a direct link, they were all published in an MR competitor. But this site has lots of Arduino projects and links to lots of people's work. The articles section has some links to Geoff's work.
https://mrrwa.org/
rrinker Can't post a direct link, they were all published in an MR competitor. But this site has lots of Arduino projects and links to lots of people's work. The articles section has some links to Geoff's work. https://mrrwa.org/ --Randy
Thanks Randy. Browsing through it. Trying to find info here about how to build the servo modules he used.
riogrande5761 Do they all have to be automated? I'm planning a layout and am thinking most of my yard turnouts are going to be within reach of my hands so why complicate things with lots of extra wiring and switch machines. To that end, I'm moving more to Peco or ME switches which have the built in spring so do not even need a manual or powered machine. Atlas also makes lower cost under the table machines you can use and cost less and get the job done. I have a few of those still. The only place I have ever used the above surface Atlas machines is in staging where I don't care about appearance.
I agree with you Jim, I'm going to try and limit my need for automation.
I also have a significant number of those Tortoise machines that I do NOT intend to use as I would have to remove those nice springs from my Peco turnouts,.... and the Tortoise are just too bulky under the relatively thin shelfs/decks I am trying to maintain.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Randy,
I hope you're not leaving the hobby anytime soon. I'm in the process of tearing down my current layout due to a move. Current layout has peco switch machines and i think I'm tiring of the SNAP! noise. I'm interested in the servo/arduino combo for the next layout. I have coding experience with several languages but i bet I'll have questions as far as the wiring goes. While lurking in the forum I've found your knowledge invaluable.
T e d
Well, I've been running trains since I was 2 years old, that's 50 years ago, so I doubt I will be leaving the hobby any time soon. I suppose when I do, it will be feet first. Hopefully not for many more years.