I finally competed the sale of the old townhome and purchase of a stand-alone house with corresponding basement. It's unfinished but at least it is already framed in for a head start. It will probably be Jan/Feb before I start on adding outlets and drywall but am working out track plans in the mean time.
Here are a couple of photos - tons more space than my old 10x18' room plus the utility room has plenty of space for a work shop area.
The main room area is 15 wide x 27.5 and extends into two additional sections which "step" to the left 6' and 12' (total from front to back 45'.)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
That looks inviting and inspiring. Congrats!
I'll bet you'll need lots more track than what you salvaged from the old layout. That's just one of the many "good" problems you now face.
Any specific subject matter in mind yet beyond Rio Grande-something?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Congrat's Jim, I know this has been a long time coming for you.
Easy access to the panel and unfinished walls and ceiling should allow you to be very creative with the lighting. The boys and I will be over on Sunday and we will have it all up in an afternoon.
Where will the bar and lounge go?
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
That is fantastic that the insulation and framing are already done.
Rich
Alton Junction
That looks inspiring... How come all the house with basements are where the weather is terrible?
.
Anyway, what is ceiling height like in a room like that? I am 6' 7" tall, and basements never look tall enough to me.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 That looks inspiring... How come all the house with basements are where the weather is terrible? . Anyway, what is ceiling height like in a room like that? I am 6' 7" tall, and basements never look tall enough to me. . -Kevin
Where you live, houses don't need deep foundations, and water tables are shallow. So a basement is an extra expense and a problem.
Here, around the Potomac and farther north, cold winters require deep foundations. Since one has to dig and build 3' deep foundations anyway, going deeper and building a basement is afordable extra space.
And, basements make for warmer, drier houses in winter weather so they are preferred in this region.
You may consider our weather terrible, but I would not want to live in Florida, been there, my mother lives in Okeechobee.
But my layout is not in a basement, but rather in a 25 x 40 room above my detached garage. My house has a 28 x 45 basement, but being build in 1901, it has a low ceiling, heating pipes, duct work, etc.
Sheldon
Jim, great looking space, congrats.
Congrats! You have a nice clean canvass to work with. I look forward to the evolution of your track plan.
Scott
mlehman That looks inviting and inspiring. Congrats! I'll bet you'll need lots more track than what you salvaged from the old layout. That's just one of the many "good" problems you now face. Any specific subject matter in mind yet beyond Rio Grande-something?
Wife, bless her, found that house and was best choice as far as basements go, and she got her Jacuzzi tub in the master bathroom so she is happy! Happy wife, happy life!
I'll probably have to buy another 20 pieces of code 100 flex for the longer staging yard, and of course if I do a helix, that will eat track. Having salvaged the track from the last layout will at least cut the cost down on the new layout.
Still plan on doing west end Rio Grande in the late 1970's thru early 1980's - Grande Junction but don't think there wasn'i a lot of online industries so may protolance it a bit too sort of like Rob Spangler - although local the 8thWPsub is totally protolance isn't it?
Congrat's Jim, I know this has been a long time coming for you. Easy access to the panel and unfinished walls and ceiling should allow you to be very creative with the lighting. The boys and I will be over on Sunday and we will have it all up in an afternoon. Where will the bar and lounge go?
Sort of like a barn raising? Bam, up in short order? If only! The lounge will have to go in the far 12x12 where the walk-out is for now! Guessing for lighting to use ceiling mounted LED fixtures mounted to a drop ceiling.
Yeah, blank slate and hoping I can get working the basement within the next few months. Wife has dibs on some of the remaining available money for kitchen countertops, sink etc, and hardwood floors; will be DIY for some things cause ain't made of money.
Very nice space Jim. Lots of work yet to do with oulets, drywall, and lighting.
I just finished drwalling the basement garage for my new layout and need to do the lighting, then ceiling treatment.
Consider this product for your ceiling, if you don't want to spend the money to finish it. It will black out everything and smooth out the cluttered look that's inevitable with unfinished basement ceilings.
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/pro-industrial-waterborne-acrylic-dryfall
- Douglas
I've BEEN to Florida in the middle of August - I don't know how anyone can stand it. Northern Virginia is not bad at all, but it is just far enough south that when there is bad weather, no one knows how to drive I'd be bored to tears with the same weather all year around.
That is some nice space. I'm jealous, all the insulation and framing is done. I'm still working on ripping out the previous owner's poor finish work, with no insulation, so I can start all over again. But even once I take the interior walls out, I don't have that much unrestricted space.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerI'd be bored to tears with the same weather all year around.
We don't have the same weather all year long. In fact, winter is one of my favorite days of the year.
Sorry, really old joke.
Great-looking space you've got there, Jim.
Wayne
I lived in northern California for about 15 years and recall basements were very rare there. The water table is very deep there so thats not an issue. I've always wondered why basements were not dug there but seem to be standard in the northeast and mid-Atlantic region and common in the midwest and upper midwest.
I did a rough calculation and this new basement is about 1000 sq ft but the layout area is probably about 730 sq ft. There is a good sized utility room that I'll use for storage and work bench and plan to install a utility sink and hopefully a paint booth. The Radon system is vented out there so it would be an ideal location.
riogrande5761 I lived in northern California for about 15 years and recall basements were very rare there. The water table is very deep there so thats not an issue. I've always wondered why basements were not dug there but seem to be standard in the northeast and mid-Atlantic region and common in the midwest and upper midwest.
As Sheldon mentioned, it has to do with economics. If the ground doesn't freeze in your area, there probably isn't an abundance of basements since housing can be built more cheaply with shallow foundations/footings.
In colder locations, building codes generally require foundations to go past the ground freeze line, which in places like indiana is 30 inches. Builders still need to bring the heavy equipment to dig a footer that deep. Once the equipment is there, going deeper and removing the soil is incrementally not that costly. There still is an economic benefit with building slab foundations, but its much less of a difference than the locations where you only need a 12 inch footing.
Up north, during the slow winter building season, a lot of builders offer free basements as a way to keep the equipment moving and the trades fully scheduled. I think they put a type of antifreeze in the concrete so that is hardens without freezing.
riogrande5761 I lived in northern California for about 15 years and recall basements were very rare there. The water table is very deep there so thats not an issue. I've always wondered why basements were not dug there but seem to be standard in the northeast and mid-Atlantic region and common in the midwest and upper midwest. I did a rough calculation and this new basement is about 1000 sq ft but the layout area is probably about 730 sq ft. There is a good sized utility room that I'll use for storage and work bench and plan to install a utility sink and hopefully a paint booth. The Radon system is vented out there so it would be an ideal location.
I don't know much about northern California, so I can't comment.
But a little more detail on the economics of basements in the North East, Upper Midwest and Mid Atlantic.
First, it snows in all these places, even the relatively mild Mid Atlantc can get the 30" snowfall from time to time and the ground can freeze 24-30" deep in Jan/Feb.
So houses are generally built with the first floor level anywhere from 18" to 36" above grade. Second, footers must be below the frost line. In most of these regions that means at least 36" below the grade, more in some areas.
The newer building codes require that crawl spaces have a minimum space, I think it is now 36". And they require a "floor" or "rat slab", and insulation.
So do the math. House is 18-36" above grade, foundation must go 36" below grade. That means I have to build a concrete or block wall 4-1/2' to 6' tall anyway, and I have to put a floor in that space.
The added cost of a deeper hole and 8' to 9' walls is next to nothing at that point.
It truely is nearly FREE space.
The basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more.
This frees up space in the floor plan of the living areas, making the home effectively bigger.
All houses should have basements, not just for model trains.......
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more.
Furnace: Don't have/need one.
Oil Tank: ???
Water heater: 4 SqFeet in the garage
Air handler: In recess above garage ceiling
Well Pump: Don't have one
I don't see it freeing up any space, and adding a lot of cost.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't know much about northern California, so I can't comment. But a little more detail on the economics of basements in the North East, Upper Midwest and Mid Atlantic. First, it snows in all these places, even the relatively mild Mid Atlantc can get the 30" snowfall from time to time and the ground can freeze 24-30" deep in Jan/Feb. So houses are generally built with the first floor level anywhere from 18" to 36" above grade. Second, footers must be below the frost line. In most of these regions that means at least 36" below the grade, more in some areas. The newer building codes require that crawl spaces have a minimum space, I think it is now 36". And they require a "floor" or "rat slab", and insulation. So do the math. House is 18-36" above grade, foundation must go 36" below grade. That means I have to build a concrete or block wall 4-1/2' to 6' tall anyway, and I have to put a floor in that space. The added cost of a deeper hole and 8' to 9' walls is next to nothing at that point. It truely is nearly FREE space. The basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more. This frees up space in the floor plan of the living areas, making the home effectively bigger. All houses should have basements, not just for model trains....... Sheldon
An interesting observation about here, the SE US, they have what is known as a "basement lot". Basements are only built on one type of lot, sloping. Flat lots are reserved for slabs or crawlspaces. So, to have a basement built, you first need to have the correct kind of lot. My new layout space is in a basement garage, because most basements in this area are all walk out due to the house being built on a sloping lot.
The term "basement lot" was confusing to a midwestern flatlander like me. I explained to the agent that I didn't understand the term because all you have to do for a basement is dig a big hole, line it with drainage tile, and stick in a sump pump. Any lot is a basement lot. He looked at me like I was from Mars.
And to add to freeze line issues and water table height, sandy soil like Florida makes building a basement almost impossible. Can't dig the big hole if the sides keep filling in.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAll houses should have basements, not just for model trains.......
Nearly all homes in my country have, unless you live on one of the islands in the Baltic Sea or the North Sea.
Doughless They have what is known as a "basement lot". Basements are only built on one type of lot, sloping.
Man, you northerners up in Georgia have everything.
We don't even have "basement lots" anywhere I know of. The whole state is pretty much flat as a pancake.
I think John Allen's house in Monterey, CA must have qualified as being a basement lot. He had a basement, which is a California rarity, because of the grade of the lot.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL The basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more. . Furnace: Don't have/need one. Oil Tank: ??? Water heater: 4 SqFeet in the garage Air handler: In recess above garage ceiling Well Pump: Don't have one . I don't see it freeing up any space, and adding a lot of cost. . -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more.
I understand, but houses here need those things so having them in a basement is better.
"oil tank?" - yes, much of the Northeast is heated with oil.
In our case we have an oil fired boiler for hydronic heat (hot water), the very best kind of heat. Our boiler also makes our domestic hot water, so in the regular sense we do not have a water heater, but we do have a domestic hot water indirect heater tank. A 50 gallon tank with a hot water coil in side that uses boiler water to heat the domestic water.
So, oil tank, we actually have two. Our house is about 4,000 sq ft, and the boiler is 156,000 btu's. So to make sure we don't run out in an extended storm, etc, we have two, 275 gallon tanks manifolded together.
We also have propane. A 100 gallon propane tank feeds the cooking stove and two ventless space heaters that look like wood stoves. They work without electricity for heat in a power outage.
We have two A/C systems, one in the basement for the first floor, one in the attic above the 3rd floor for the 2nd and 3rd floors.
Oh, I almost forgot the detached garage with the train room. My garage/shop is a 32' x 40' building with the 25' x 40' train room above. The train room is heated and cooled. Behind the garage are three more 100 gallon propane tanks which supply the trainroom heat and the swimming pool heater.
Kevin, I guess you most likely have a heat pump, some people here have them too. Great choice where you are, here not always so great, but some of the newer, better ones are OK.
I know you think Florida is just so wonderful, good for you. You never have to worry about me coming and making it over crowded.
We live here:
And my trains are upstairs here:
And I don't mind winter one bit:
Doughless ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't know much about northern California, so I can't comment. But a little more detail on the economics of basements in the North East, Upper Midwest and Mid Atlantic. First, it snows in all these places, even the relatively mild Mid Atlantc can get the 30" snowfall from time to time and the ground can freeze 24-30" deep in Jan/Feb. So houses are generally built with the first floor level anywhere from 18" to 36" above grade. Second, footers must be below the frost line. In most of these regions that means at least 36" below the grade, more in some areas. The newer building codes require that crawl spaces have a minimum space, I think it is now 36". And they require a "floor" or "rat slab", and insulation. So do the math. House is 18-36" above grade, foundation must go 36" below grade. That means I have to build a concrete or block wall 4-1/2' to 6' tall anyway, and I have to put a floor in that space. The added cost of a deeper hole and 8' to 9' walls is next to nothing at that point. It truely is nearly FREE space. The basements are also home to most of the utilities, furnace/boiler/oil tank, A/C air handler, water heater, well water equipment (yes, many of us have our own wells) and more. This frees up space in the floor plan of the living areas, making the home effectively bigger. All houses should have basements, not just for model trains....... Sheldon An interesting observation about here, the SE US, they have what is known as a "basement lot". Basements are only built on one type of lot, sloping. Flat lots are reserved for slabs or crawlspaces. So, to have a basement built, you first need to have the correct kind of lot. My new layout space is in a basement garage, because most basements in this area are all walk out due to the house being built on a sloping lot. The term "basement lot" was confusing to a midwestern flatlander like me. I explained to the agent that I didn't understand the term because all you have to do for a basement is dig a big hole, line it with drainage tile, and stick in a sump pump. Any lot is a basement lot. He looked at me like I was from Mars. And to add to freeze line issues and water table height, sandy soil like Florida makes building a basement almost impossible. Can't dig the big hole if the sides keep filling in.
Well that is "interesting" to say the least. I don't think anyone can or would stop you from building a basement on a flat lot, but again as I explained there is little incentive since footers don't need to be deep in warmer regions.
We have lots of houses built that way here on sloping lots here with what we call "walk out basements". But here that still requires a 3' deep footer on the downhill side under the basement level. So foundations for those houses are actually built with a "step", since the front or uphill side is well below the required depth.
Walkout designs are poplular here because the terrain is hilly, we live in the Piedmont.
Mine's the opposite way, I am on the downhill side of a hill. My basement actually has no windows at all, the back side of the house is completely below the ground line, as is one side - the ground doesn'y slope down on that side until past the front edge. On the other side, the garage is there, the ground does slope down along the outside of the garage so as you get to the front, more and more of the foundation is exposed. Only the garage door and an entry door are exposed in the front, the majority of the basement is behind the porch foundation. Some houses in my neighborhood have the area under the front porch as an additional open basement space, kinda wish I had that. Every little bit helps. Front doot to my house is about 10 feet up above the driveway level. Garage is huge - listed as 2 car but I get 2 cars and my truck in there plus workbench, lawn tractor, compressor, rolling toolbox, etc. Downside is that it sucks up a LOT of basement space, at least 20x25.
rrinker Mine's the opposite way, I am on the downhill side of a hill. My basement actually has no windows at all, the back side of the house is completely below the ground line, as is one side - the ground doesn'y slope down on that side until past the front edge. On the other side, the garage is there, the ground does slope down along the outside of the garage so as you get to the front, more and more of the foundation is exposed. Only the garage door and an entry door are exposed in the front, the majority of the basement is behind the porch foundation. Some houses in my neighborhood have the area under the front porch as an additional open basement space, kinda wish I had that. Every little bit helps. Front doot to my house is about 10 feet up above the driveway level. Garage is huge - listed as 2 car but I get 2 cars and my truck in there plus workbench, lawn tractor, compressor, rolling toolbox, etc. Downside is that it sucks up a LOT of basement space, at least 20x25. --Randy
So your garage is on the basement level? We have a fair amount of those in one form or another around here as well.
Yeah, raised ranch. Even the multi-story houses in my neighborhood are almost all the same this way - the people across the street from me have their front doors facing the street of course, but there is an alley between my street and the next one down, and those houses have their garages off the alley in part of their basements.
SeeYou190 Doughless They have what is known as a "basement lot". Basements are only built on one type of lot, sloping. . Man, you northerners up in Georgia have everything. . We don't even have "basement lots" anywhere I know of. The whole state is pretty much flat as a pancake. . I think John Allen's house in Monterey, CA must have qualified as being a basement lot. He had a basement, which is a California rarity, because of the grade of the lot. . -Kevin
Doughless
They have what is known as a "basement lot". Basements are only built on one type of lot, sloping.
We can get severe weather up here, tornadoes, about once every ten years, so the wife demanded a basement anyway.
The problem is that the basement's aren't really basements in many cases, IMO. They are the "terrace level" where just a portion of of that level is underground. Most of it is above ground if the slope is severe enough. I live in the Piedmont area of GA so as you go South towards the flatter coastal plain things may be different.
I'm used to basements where the builder has to carve out a larger window well to accomodate an egress window for folks who would otherwise put a bedroom just anywhere. Everything is underground.
Most of Florida is sandy. It caves in or washes out.......even the streets and buildings from time to time.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well that is "interesting" to say the least. I don't think anyone can or would stop you from building a basement on a flat lot, but again as I explained there is little incentive since footers don't need to be deep in warmer regions. We have lots of houses built that way here on sloping lots here with what we call "walk out basements". But here that still requires a 3' deep footer on the downhill side under the basement level. So foundations for those houses are actually built with a "step", since the front or uphill side is well below the required depth. Walkout designs are poplular here because the terrain is hilly, we live in the Piedmont. Sheldon
I live in the Piedmont area of GA. Its just a situation where most people want walk-out basements anyway, so the demand for the traditional basement isnt that great. There's enough hills to provide probably more basement lots than the market demands. I'm sure we could have one built in a flat lot if we wanted too.
We have basements in North Carolina-
Russell
We have basements in Canada, it is where you practice your wrist shot when it is too cold to go outside.
and you wonder why goalies wear so much padding...
Os it because it's too cold to go outside, or is it just because the snow is piled up so high, you can't get the door open?