What is the general opinion of the Blue Point, Bullfrog and Tortoise switch machines?
I've used the Tortoises for years but with a new and larger layout in the planning stages I would like to save some money and maybe use some form of manual controllers.
I have not seen or used either the Bulfrog or the Blue Points and would appreciate some input.
I have also used the Caboose Industries throws. While they work well and are by far the least expensive they look like crap and I would prefer not having hands and arms eaching into this new layout.
Thanks,
Roger Huber
Roger,
I use mainly homemade manual throws constructed from household 3-way switches and the boxes that hold them. Cost is around $3 or less, depending on where you shop.
The pic gives you a general idea. This one has a reverse crank arm. I like the normal route to be when the knob on the fascia is in, but sometimes you need the extra crank arm to reverse the throw direction to properly display when switch is in normal.
I used mainly maple dowels for the throw link in the past, but now mostly only for long runs. Now I tend to use a stiff wire (0.062) for shorts throws.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehmanThe pic gives you a general idea. This one has a reverse crank arm. I like the normal route to be when the knob on the fascia is in, but sometimes you need the extra crank arm to reverse the throw direction to properly display when switch is in normal.
YIKES!... I'd rather spend the money on a Tortoise than trying to construct those things! The Tortoise is so ieasy to install! See the LION and the Tortoise.
How big is your layout? Wire is expensive. LION uses a common Ground circuit, and then uses a single wire (the "stinger") to move the tortious, set the signals, and power any relays used for track and/or signal logic. +12v dc = Normal; -12v dc = reverse.
But LION *did* build this to control the railroad of him:
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I classify turnouts for control into these categories:
Most of my switch machines are either Rix twin-coil (stocked up before they became unavailable) or truly ancient KTM twin coil rocksmashers purchased in Japan half a century ago. Lately I have been considering Tortoise for a few really awkward locations, but they would require a completely different power setup.
My manual throws are electrical switches - some toggle, most slide. I need at least DPDT capability for powering hot frogs and connecting subordinate electrical sections to directly-powered sections (features of the MZL system - DCC users can disregard, and use those contacts for indicator lamps or signals.)
No matter which, the thing that moves the points is located at the fascia line and movement is conveyed by a length of monofilament fishing line to the lower arm of an Anderson link. When the points are in normal position that line is slack and the points are held against the stock rail by a suspended weight that pulls that arm in the direction away from the fascia. Reversing the point mover puts tension on the line, lifts the counterweight and moves the points to the reverse position. (Normal and reverse correspond to lever back and lever forward in a 19th century manual interlocking plant. Normal is the most-used and/or preferred route.)
My layout is a moderately complex double-garage filler in HOj (1:80) scale. Powered switches are operated from either the Main (think CTC) panel, the Zone (town or interlocking) panel or the immediate vicinity (with a stereo plug 'switch key.') Construction has been progressing in fits and starts for a decade now. Wheels started rolling a few hours after the first benchwork was erected and haven't stopped since.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL)
Mike,
I like your use of household-grade toggles. Much better for my stiff old ham-hooks than little slide switches. The only difference in my method is mentioned above - fishing line in tension only when the points are reversed (so I'm not pushing a rope.) Normal versus reverse point position is arranged for at the lower arm of the Anderson link.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Proto 87 has some options.
If you feel like going retro...choke cables.
Take a look at Humpyard controls.
Dante
Thanks for your comment, Chuck.
tomikawaTT Mike, I like your use of household-grade toggles. Much better for my stiff old ham-hooks than little slide switches. The only difference in my method is mentioned above - fishing line in tension only when the points are reversed (so I'm not pushing a rope.) Normal versus reverse point position is arranged for at the lower arm of the Anderson link. Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck (and Lion),
I agree on limiting use of the slide switches. They're too tiny, but I need to use them in a few places and you can flick them with your uncoupling pick.
My budget is pretty limited these days, so what's cheap and works has to sub for Tortoises. I've got 150+ Tortoises, just that the price has gone up while the budget is down. Some of the manual controls will be replaced with Tortoises (or Bluepoint, too) when funds become available. They're ready to convert if I use the 3-way switch method, so that makes it a particularly good method if you plan to upgrade later.
mlehman Roger, I use mainly homemade manual throws constructed from household 3-way switches and the boxes that hold them. Cost is around $3 or less, depending on where you shop. The pic gives you a general idea. This one has a reverse crank arm. I like the normal route to be when the knob on the fascia is in, but sometimes you need the extra crank arm to reverse the throw direction to properly display when switch is in normal.
Nice work with the photo of the light switch. How to wire that for use instead of a SPST? I've seen someone use that on youtube and think that's cheaper than using SPST toggle switches.
I plan on using Tortoise machines for turnouts that are too challenging to reach and Caboose Industries above-ground switches on the yard. This way someone can solely focus on being the yard boss.
Three-way household switches ARE SPDT.
Lion, I'd think something like that would be right up your alley - it's cheap and effective! Though of course not terribly practical for having a central tower control.
For the OP, if you still want remote control without the cost of Tortoises, there's always servos. With a controller like Tam Valley's Octocoder, and servos you can get on ebay, it comes out to less than $8 per turnout to have a powered switch machine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I am using Humpyard devices easy enough to install ,lots of ways to mount and use them. Each comes with a 6 foot Stainless Steel wire in a Teflon tube.
http://humpyard.com/
Ron High
kasskabooseNice work with the photo of the light switch. How to wire that for use instead of a SPST?
Randy's correct, they're SPDT. You wire the green/frog wire to the black/common terminal of the 3-way switch. The feeds from the red and black rails go to the other two connections.
I get boxes of 10 3-way switches at the local big box for $10. If you have room for a standard box, they're like 29 cents? Throw in a bit for a wood knob (6 for $2) and wire or dowel and you can easily make them for under $3/each.
The receptacle box isn't strictly necessary, but is convenient for mounting them. I generally drill holes in the bottom/back and drive a couple of screws through to the benchwork to mount them. You can mount the switches "naked" if you can get a screw into the mounting tabs at each end.
I was buying model aircraft bell cranks and crank arms for the direction reverser, if that's needed, but now tend to use a short piece of rectangular brass tube mounted on a screw.
The LM&E has three Blue Point controllers in place in areas I can't reach.
All others are manually controlled Pecos.
They were easy to install, on one Peco, it worked without any adjustment, on the other two, it seemed that the holding spring was much stronger and to get them to work flawlessly I had to remove the springs from them. I like them well enough to consider more of them.
Johnboy out.....................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
For my code 83 Peco turnouts I used the 9G (90G?) servo motors. Take the bottom off, cut out the circuit board and wire directly to the motor. I used .032 piano wire intertwined in the pivot arm and the outdoor rated two sided tape to mount them. Leave the centering spring in the turnout otherwise the pivoting action may cause a "bounce" after being thrown. I used a 3V power supply with momentary pushbutton control. One button supplies +3V the other -3V. The servos can be found on ebay at 10 for $20. Easy to make and install and you cannot beat the price.
Mark