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Best advice about track design that I've seen.

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, December 10, 2015 1:56 PM

Please don't take it so much as a correction as it is just recognizing the nuances of model railroading make absolute statements troublesome. There is what absolutely has to be, like gauge, and then there's everything else that depends on a lot of factors.

I think your point about facing being less flexible in designing layouts for more confined spaces is a good one to point out. Many people have only a shelf or two to work with, but they can still have a great layout and shouldn't feel as if they're missing out because they don't have all the elements that would be ideal, like a continuous run option. Very few layouts are that lucky. I've done pretty well with the generous space I have available, but I sure wish it was a foot taller. There's no shame in making compromises, because almost all of us have to about something.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by selector on Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:18 PM

On railways, there is nothing new under the Sun.  However, for me, some things work better aesthetically.  I just can't enjoy a steamer running in reverse, whether pushing or having run around and running tender-first, a passenger consist on a point-to-point.  It happens in the real world, but it doesn't feel or look right to me.  I want my steamers leading.  So, either they must be turned or the entire consist must be turned.

This means, for me, in a modest space, and if I want broad curves for the sake of my longer heavyweights and large steamers, that my folded loop layout will afford me the long runs I like in that modest space.  It means standing in the middle of the space with the benchwork surrounding me. 

I have one other criterion, and it's a given, not a druther; I want to wear my tires and flanges evenly.  I don't want my costly-to-fix/replace rolling stock to wear the flanges paper-thin or to scrub the tire metal off with the trains rolling say counterclockwise all the time.  So, I have to build in a reverse loop that allows me to turn my trains without picking everything up.  This complicates things for me because I have to build a bridge that crosses the central operating pit at some point in such a way that my minimum curve radius criterion is met.  Means an auto-reverser, more turnouts, more track, hinges or lift-out...

There must come a point in a scale where the room just doesn't permit a reasonable run and being able to turn a train and run it in a loop.  At some total area/shape combination the only possible layout will be a switching or point-to-point option.

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:46 PM

selector
There must come a point in a scale where the room just doesn't permit a reasonable run and being able to turn a train and run it in a loop. At some total area/shape combination the only possible layout will be a switching or point-to-point option.

John Armstrong would probably say...Take a circle based on your min R then add a little to the outside of the curve for clearance. Fit that into a square room. Duckunder required. Done.Wink

Depends on your idea of a reasonable run, of course. Bigger than that is just a luxury, but sometimes a necessary luxury, as you note.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by HObbyguy on Saturday, December 12, 2015 7:50 AM

I've been watching this thread closely but haven't contributed since I don't have near the experience everyone posting does.  I am about halfway through my layout build now and too late to make major changes but there is always the possibility of improvements.

My layout is designed with continuous run in mind for the same reasons that selector mentions, and I also added a hidden reverse loop to get my steamers turned around.  The yard is designed to function more or less as an interchange and of course I have sidings and industries.  But keeping the radius at 24" minimum and grades at 2% with a crossover in the design meant a lot of trade-offs given the space I have to work with.

Leading to my "newbie" question...  what do you guys mean by "staging"?  Its a term thrown around a lot here but never really defined.  How do you use "staging" during operations and how does it add to the interest level?

Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger...  doing it my way.  Now working on phase 3.      - Walt

For photos and more:  http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/

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Posted by carl425 on Saturday, December 12, 2015 9:16 AM

HObbyguy
what do you guys mean by "staging"?

Think of the theater.  On each side of the stage you have the wings.  This is where actors/props "wait in the wings" before their appearance on stage.

In our case, the sceniced portion of the layout is the stage, the trains are the actors and the staging tracks are the wings.  They simulate unmodeled destinations off the layout, giving trains someplace to go to or come from.

In my case, I have 7 staging tracks on each end of the layout.  A train will come onto one end of the modeled section and exit on the other end - making any stops required to drop off or pick up cars.  Some trains will run straight through.

I don't have a yard so trains don't originate or terminate on my layout.  Those with division point type yards can bring trains from staging that terminate at the yard and are broken down and assemble new trains in the yard that finish their trip in staging.

The advantage of the arrangement suggested in the OP of this thread is that a continuous run through staging gives you the opportunity to run continuous when desired, but also keeps trains running in the same direction (loads always go east, empties always go west) so open top cars don't have to be re-staged between operating sessions (like mine).

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, December 12, 2015 11:58 AM

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
Here is the best quote that I have read about track design: "I wish I had done continuous run with staging." I can't think of anything that sums it up better.

This is often a good idea, but is one of those situations where one size does not fit all. As others have pointed out, room size or arrangement may mean that only stub-end staging is possible. 

Loop staging has some advantages, as well. Chief among these is that trains with similar make-ups (like passenger trains) may be re-used during an operating session by turning in the loop and returning later as a different train headed in the opposite direction without any manual re-staging required.

Continuous-run is a great goal for many modelers, but it is one of a number of trade-offs designers must consider.

So I’d suggest that one must consider the room configuration, types of traffic, and many other factors before anointing any one arrangement as “best.”

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Saturday, December 12, 2015 1:31 PM

selector

 I just can't enjoy a steamer running in reverse, whether pushing or having run around and running tender-first, a passenger consist on a point-to-point.  It happens in the real world, but it doesn't feel or look right to me.  I want my steamers leading.  So, either they must be turned or the entire consist must be turned.

Most of us use either a Turn table or a wye to turn equipment around for the trip down the hill.  I can even fit my observation car on my small TT to get it headed back in the right orientation. On my layout in OPs mode, most of the equpment going to the end of the line is small shortline steam that will fit on my 65' TT at the end of the line. 

Turning Heavy metal always presents a challenge in that most TTs to turn these Beasts must be big and wyes will require big radius curves. I have a reversing loop on one end of the point and secret escape track on the other end to avoid having to turn the big stuff.

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

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