Presently I am on a modest budget and have installed 4 sets of standard 4 foot long T8 32 watt bulbs in my 10x18' layout room. They are good, but I need to add two or three more fixtures to get full coverage.
Rather than buy more of the same fixtures, I would like to add-on some brighter fixtures and am considering what looks like two possible solutions: T5HO fluorescent fixtures or LED fixtures.
Some have obtained the newer T5 High Output 54 watt fluorscent fixtures and bulbs and get a good deal more light, which is my goal. Their cost has slowly come down but they are still costly AND at a higher watt they will cost more to operate.
Would the newer LED lights which are formated to 4 foot long flurescent style bulbs be a better alternative? The cost is higher than the inexpensive T8 4 foot fixtures but would they be brighter (something I want and need) and cost less to operate?
Thanks in advance for any feedback and/or suggestions as to good inexpensive sources for ordering fixtures.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I've got two 2-tube T5 fixtures in my 10x15 room and they provide all the light I need to work on the layout. I've also been buying LED's for other applications and will probably incorporate them as layout lighting when my requirements change from building to viewing.
One thing I have learned from my LED experience is that they seem to be universally over rated in terms of light output. They never put off as much light as the "incandescent equivalent" they claim to be able to replace. You'll most likely need 1.5 to 2 times what the specs claim - especially on the budget LED's.
You didn't mention dimming, but keep in mind that dimmable LED's are substantially more expensive.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Hi, Jim
I have both the T5 High Output fixtures and several retro-fit LED tubes that wire directly to the "tombstone" and require no ballasts.
One difference you may want to consider is heat. Those skinny T5 tubes really get HOT and you will need plenty of ventilation around them. They are glaringly bright and emit light 360° around the tube where the LEDs are directional and only emight light from one side of the tube. The diffuser helps.
One of my annoyances with any of the fluorsecent lamps was the hum of the ballasts, even the electronic ballast. The LED tube replacements are silent. There are LED tubes that will work without removing the ballast but I have not used any of these. The ones I bought,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O1CJC0C?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
came with four isolated "tombstones" that allow the hot and neutral to be wired to each pin of the tube. The other end is dead and just supports the lamp.
I had many old fixtures that I re-worked and I was glad to see that big old, magnetic ballast in the scrap heap.
I have seen reasonably priced fixtures at the Habitat For Humanity Restore, maybe you have one in your area?
I had a bad run of the T5 fixtures I bought at Home Depot. Out of seven fixtures, three of them had faulty ballasts. Two failed right away and I was able to convince H-D to return them but the third one failed some time later and they would not honor the return so I had to cough up $40 for a new ballast! (the same cost as the fixture!) these were Sylvania ballasts and I wonder if the heat had anything to do with their failure.
H-D wanted $12 each for the T5 tubes but I bought a box of 25 here for much less:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/153006/HALCO-035081.html
Good Luck, Ed
Jim,
Something to consider is whether you want to add fixtures or go with some form of continuous LED lighting.
Fixtures in the past tended to be point sources, i.e. incandescents throw light in virtually every direction, as well as being inefficient in terms of conversion of electricity to light.
Flourescents are more efficient and their linear form works better in spreading the light lengthwise, although they still emit in a 360 degree pattern.
As for realistic lighting, whether singly or in groups, neither much resembles the sun as it shines on the Earth. Sunshine arrives as parallel rays (for all practical purposes) which is what gives the sort of shadowing from scenery and models that makes it look most realistic indoors.
That's why I really like the various forms of LED strip lights. LEDs themselves tend to put out light in a relatively narrow direction vs older lighting. Arranged in a long string, this directionality is very much akin to how sunlight falls on scenery in being basically a long stretch of parallel rays.
The comment that the relative comparative equivalents list for all forms of LED lighting is questionable is a good one. What's neat about LED light strips is that you only need to stack them up until you achieve the desired results. But even one strip passing over a scene is usually a good start, then this can be added to with additional passes until the desired light level is achieved as the budget allows.
The LED strip lights can also be adjusted so that the lighting is best by simply tilting/rotating the string to the optimal orientation. They also install easily, requiring little more than being tacked in place and the cord connected. I've also had good results mounting the strip to a 1x2, which also serves as a valance and is usually pretty easy to hang if you want to limit the holes from mounting points and to lower them from high ceilings to increase their effectiveness.
Just another option to consider when adding on to existing lighting. The typical 12' or so strip consumes around 10 watts, a dramatic reduction in power use vs most other lighting.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I wont get into the light output part of your question, as I personally don't feel LED's can be fairly compared to other light sources. The light is very, very different and a decision between them should only be made with a personal choice only after experiencing both.
As to the cost, that I can attest to as we took a month last year and replaced all incandecent and all but a very few fourescent lights in the entire house, my shop, and the layout room. Replacing 36 light bulbs and 17 fourescent fixtures chopped $46 a month off of our electric bill. It wasn't cheap to do, but in 18 or so months, the savings will pay for the cost.
I'm hanging the fixtures up near a drop ceiling so there is around 5 inches space so heat could be disapated with space all round, but if the T5HO is going to be hot and use a lot of power, they will kick up the electric bill significantly too. I do want lights which are brighter than the ones I have, but I don't want to replace all 4 fixtures but add to them with a couple 2 or three brighter ones.
I've seen in photo's Mikes continuous strips and I don't care for the circus-marquis look to them when you look up - it's rather distracting seeing little rows of lights snaking around the ceiling - so thats out. Don't care for it. Just want 4 foot conventional style fixtures I can hang on little chains and take with me when I move.
So what seems like the best options are either the T5HO or some sort of LED in the same 4 foot formate. LED might be better if I can find some reasonably priced and brighter than the T8 32 watt.
I would remove the two 4 foot T8 fixtures from over the yard and move them to the other side of the room over that part of the layout and put the brighter newer lights over the yard - is my thinking. If I only had one or two T5HO, it might not kill the electric bill too much, but if I can get 4' fluorescent style LED lights that are actually brighter than the T8 32watt, that seems like it might get what I want and not be too hard on the electric bill.
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
riogrande5761I've seen in photo's Mikes continuous strips and I don't care for the circus-marquis look to them when you look up - it's rather distracting seeing little rows of lights snaking around the ceiling - so thats out. Don't care for it. Just want 4 foot conventional style fixtures I can hang on little chains and take with me when I move.
Keep in mind that when I take pics that show the lights, it's usually because I want to show the lights. In actual use, you tend to look at the layout. Also, my ceiling is pretty low, 6'7", so sometimes the lighting sneaks into pics despite my efforts.
The key to lighting is that it illuminates what's below and draws attention to your modeling. It's kinda like making sausage, you really don't want to know so long as it grills nicely and is tasty.
I will note that my lighting started off as an experiment and then grew like Topsy. I'd rationalize it if it bothered me, but the results on the layout is what tends to grab my attention. With less complex round the walls form-factor like your layout, a much neater install would remove most of the snakiness. But that snaky marquee effect is also what allows the parallel ray effect that best simulates natural sunlight.
But I do understand your reservations. LED lighting is different, but most of all it's adapatable, so if a more conventional fixture suits your needs, then go for it, as the energy savings are still the most fundamental part of this equation.
OnewolfT5HO lights are extremely bright and are rather harsh/glaring to look at. They are recommended as room lighting only when the ceiling is 12+ ft tall. JMHO, I also think it's generally a bad idea to mix different types of lighting for room lighting in a train layout room. I went with tandem 48" T8 light fixtures in my layout room for room lighting (with 6500K bulbs). I plan to light the layout with LED strip lights in areas that have benchwork structure above them. I haven't decided how I am going to light the layout areas with 'only' ceiling above them (other than the existing T8 ceiling room lights).
Right now I have four tandem 4' T8 fixtures and it's not bad, but I want light to be brighter. I haven't measured the ceiling but it's not 12 feet, thats for sure - more like 8 or maybe 7.5'. I'm not tossing out the four fixtures I have, so if your saying it's bad to mix different types, what option does that leave? Just get more T8's? Maybe - I suppose more of them will brighten the room and they are certainly cheap enough at HD.
riogrande5761if your saying it's bad to mix different types, what option does that leave?
Not sure what Onewolf will say, but I suspect he's talking about matching the color temp. In any case, that's what gets weird, when you try mixing things that way. I do still use the few halogen track lights (MR16) I have left as supplemental lighting for picture taking, but use them to spotlight what I'm imaging, so that doesn't lead to the weird look you'd get if you mixed them up for room lighting.
Color temp is not absolute, though, as a standard. One fellow's 5000k can look different than someone's elses, but at least they're pretty close, close enough IMO for what we do in most cases.