Zephyr-upgrading question

[Anonymous]

Digitrax experts,

I am looking to purchase the Zephyr starter set and have some questions regarding upgrading. The Zephyr can only run ten addresses as I understand it. That will be ok while my layout is being built. Eventually, I expect to add either the DB150-Empire Builder or DCS100-Chief command station/booster due to the 2.5 amp limitation of the DCS50-Zephyr command station/booster.

Adding a DB150 or DCS100 will solve the "power problem" (more amps) with the completed layout. I am not sure if I will need to access more than 10 addresses. (There will be 3 operators on average, me, and my two boys)

The address or loco term maybe what is confusing me. I want to use 4 digit addressing. I expect to run multiple multi-unit consists (universal or decoder-assisted consisting ) in the future (not basic consisting). As I understand it my options are:

Option 1) If I use decoder-assisted consisting (I know I need decoders capable of this), the decoders of the two additional units CV's are programed as a consist to the "top" unit's address, thus only using one address. Can you use 4 digit addresses in decoder-assisted consisting? If the answer to both is yes, then the zephyr will support my finished layout needs as the command station (ten addresses should be enough) along with the addition of an addtional booster to support the increased amps of using more locos. If the answer to either is no then I think I can only do option 2.

Option 2) If I use universal consisting, I designate a "top" unit. Then if I MU two additional units to a "top" unit, that consist uses three addresses correct? If I use Universal consisting, the zephyr will not support my finished layout needs as the command station since it can only control 10 addresses at a time.

If I am correct about the address issue (10) for the Zephyr, lets say I buy the DB150 which can control 22 addresses. Would I just configure the DB150 to be the command station and then slave the zephyr (as a booster) to it giving me a total 22 addresses? If this is the case, are there any programing issues that one needs to keep in mind before making the DB150 the command station and the DCS50 the booster? Also, I would like to use the zephyr as the yard throttle. If it is a booster and not a command station, would the throttle still be of use?

Digitrax info I have read says universal consisting is the prefered method of MU'ing. This makes option 2 seem like the more likely option. I am not sure.

I like the idea of getting the zypher first and adding as needed. I just want to be sure I do it in a logical order. Cost is an issue so jumping straight to the Empire or Chief is not my prefered option.

Does this make any sense........clear as mud I am sure.

Thanks in advance,

Mike
Tulsa, Oklahoma

[rrinker]

Are you SURE you will have more than 10 addresses in use? Triple-heading 3 trains is only 9 addresses. Double-heading 3 trains is 6, and if one of the is actually a yard switcher, that's only 5 total.
You CAN use the DB150 as a command station and configure the Zephyr as a booster - its throttle still works in that case. But you wil loose the ops-mode programmign readback capability of the Zephyr, the DB150 can only write CV's, not read the current values. Plus the DB150 does not have a seprate programming track, and if the Zephyr is configured as a booster only, you cannot use its programming output.
Replace the DB150 with a DCS100, and you have all the Zephyr capabilities plus up to 120 addresses. But that might be overkill.
I am in about the same situation as you. i have a Zephyr now, and at this stage of my layout progress, there will be a max of 3 people running trains, most of the time just 2. However, I do need more than 2.5 amps, some of the locos that will be running are older Athearn that draw .5 amp and more. So my plan is to get a Super EMpire Builder set (can always use the extra throttle, too, and the set is cheaper than buying individual components) and use the DB150 as a booster with the Zephyr as the command station. 10 addresses will be fine for me. As the layout expands and I can accommodate more operators running more trains, I will add a DCS100 or a Super Chief set (if I need more throttles, highly likely). From then on it's just more of whatevr booster I can get cheapest if I need more power.
Also note that it's rumored the Zephyr actually can handle TWELVE addresses. I don't have 12+ decodered engines right now, but I sort of faked it out and keyed in non-existent addresses and dispatched them, and it took 12 before I got the FF slots full error, not 10. So this may indeed be true. I have to wait until I get more locos equipped with decoders, or someone else to try this out that does have 12 locos to verify it.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Hi Randy

I''m kinda confused. I'm about to buy a DCC system, and want to stay with Digitrax. To save some money right now, I'd like to get the Zephyr system instead of one of the larger systems.

How many trains will the Zephyr run? Its just me and my two sons on a small layout for the time being. So, its 3 engines at one time, eventually all three of them with sound. Is the Zephyr up to the job, amps wise? Would it be close? Should I bite the bullet and get one of Digitrax's larger systems?

Another bad point for me is the Zephyr's console. We have a long, narrow switching layout, and there really isn't any room for the console/throttle. I am going to buy 2 UT4 throttles (are they being sold now?). I'd hate to have to buy a third utility thottle.

Not sure what to do.

Thanks
Ray

[rrinker]

I've had 3 engines running at the same time on my Zephyr (about all I could manage since I currently dont have any extra throttles and this was on a mere oval of track set up as a test track). In HO or N, you should have no problem running 3 at a time with the Zephyr's 2.5 amps.
The console doesn't really suit my layout either, so I will end up mounting it somewhere underneath and probably never touching it. You might consider mounting a pull-out drawer to the bottom of the layout so you can push it back out of the way when not in use. My other alternative is to keep it on my workbench which is under the layout, along with a short section of track I can use to test and program, but space is fairly tight under there right now. As I expand the layout in the future I will have more options to do this at other points around the walls.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Randy,

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure if I will exceed the 10 addresses or not. I have a fairly large room for the layout (19x36). I estimate having 250' of mainline with several towns and large industries. I know the Zephyr will suite my needs for the first couple years. As I said, there will ususally only be me and my two sons operating. I don't expect anymore than three anyother time either. After reading the Zephyr manual I don't believe I will be using the docoder-assisted consisting afterall. I think Universal consisting makes the most sense.

When the layout matures, I expect I will get the Super Empire Builder for the additional booster power as well as the DT400. The more I read the Zephyr manual, the more I like having the additional programing track output along with having the ability to read decoder CV inputs.

So I believe I will get the Zephyr along with two UT4's for the boys. In one sense, the Zephyr with UT4's will add some realism to operations by dispatching consists to the DT4's. After all, the road engineers don't makeup and breakdown consists at the yards (most times).

I usually ran dummies with one head end powered loco as consists on DC block layouts I have had in the past. Just the idea of having two or three powered units in a consist and being able to control them is one of the great things about DCC I really like.

So I think you have helped me confirm my gut feeling is correct in getting the zephyer.

Thanks for you input.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Thanks Randy for your post. I should have noted that I have an HO layout. Is 3 engines about the maximum in HO for the 2.5 amp system Zephyr? When I read an engine reviews in MR mag, I see the graphs with max running speed amps, stall speed amps, etc, and I'm not sure what to do. And am I right that adding sound, such as Soundtraxx low cost sound, hardly uses any current....like hundrediths of an amp?

I don't know why I think everyone assumes that a layout is HO, and not N, and I don't want to slight you N guys. I'm amazed at everything that is done in N, and I often wonder about the empire I could build in my small space if I used N, instead of HO.

Happy Turkey Day. Although, where I'm eating today, their're doing an Italian thing. It sure smells good, and I'm starving. And we don't eat until much later. Dang!

Ray

[rrinker]

Depnds ont he locos, really. The stall current shown in the reviews is the max the motor will ever draw, if you so load it down that the wheels can't turn. Most locos won't ever stall their wheels, they will slip first. But if you add up all the stall currents, you have the worst case. Under normal operating conditions, the draw will likely be a lot less.
As measured with my own meter, I found most of the blue box Athearns pull about 1.1-1.2 amps at 12v DC if the motor is stalled. But the same loc pulling a 15 car train draws about .4 amp. My last two Stewarts draw about .1 amp running and .6 amp stalled. So it all depends on what you are running. 2.5 amps is good for anywhere from 2-3 to 7-8 locos in HO. Maybe more - I could probably run 10 of these Stewarts with no problem. But no way would 10 Athearns run.
Know what you mean about the dinner, the whole house has been smelling of roasting turkey for a couple hours now. My office where my computer is is in the finished attic space, so the smells REALLY collect up here. Maybe I should go down to the basement and work ont he railroad, it won't' smell down there!

--Randy