Go to a local lumber yard where the contractors go. There's straight wood out there but it's more expensive.
Another thought is if you have a second hand home supply store. Old house lumber is bone dry and often way better than anything you can find for a good price today.
I have yet to find a single piece that was warped, twisted or more suitable for boomerangs than benchwork. And not a single knot or knothole.
Of course, there are pre-cut holes for wiring and plumbing - those come with the territory.
What am I talking about? Steel. Specifically, steel studs. All of my benchwork, from the concrete floor to the underside of the plywood subgrade, is made of them, including risers. Using classic Westcott construction steel goes together in minutes with little tiny screws, is dimensionally stable and consistent and is more than adequately strong for my simple purposes. And the price, at those much-maligned big box stores, isn't as much as decent pine.
Steel isn't difficult to use. Since I am, at best, an indifferent carpenter, I much prefer bending tin to cutting, gluing and forming screw pockets in wood. As an added bonus, my horizontal studs (girders and joists) are natural wire runs. Not having a spiderweb under the layout is just a bonus.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork)
You can pay premium price for quality lumber, some of which still warps I pick the best, straightest pieces from the big box stores, take it home and store it flat for a couple of weeks and only use the boards that stay straight over time. The ones that do develop bends are usually limited to a short run of the board. Cut those out and use the rest of the board for shorter pieces needed on benchwork. In the long run I still have saved money and have not had any of my benchwork warp out of shape.
CHUFF I agree. The days of cheap, high-quality construction lumber are OVER, as most comes from "pine plantations" or second- or thrird-growth forests. However, look on the bright side; much of the old "good" lumber of decades past came from forests that were virgin timber, and in many, if not most cases, their pristine natural beauty was replaced by washouts, soil erosion, and wholesale slaughter of fauna, which took decades to replace, if they could be replaced at all. However, the needs of the the modeler are laughably miniscule compared to, say the amount of lumber required to build even a small house, so why not use the best? Hardwood is expensive, but dimensionally accurate poplar will yield a good result that will be very satisfying to work with and stay put for decades. Trim-quality clear pine will, also. Both will be expensive, but think of how much you pay for just as single car or locomotive? One last suggestion for the diehard who insists on using building lumber: Get yourself a table saw with a fine blade, buy the lumber oversize, and rip it down to knot-free, straight sections yourself. Just make sure it's DRY; if not, you'll have to stack it and let it finish curing for another year or two.
I agree. The days of cheap, high-quality construction lumber are OVER, as most comes from "pine plantations" or second- or thrird-growth forests. However, look on the bright side; much of the old "good" lumber of decades past came from forests that were virgin timber, and in many, if not most cases, their pristine natural beauty was replaced by washouts, soil erosion, and wholesale slaughter of fauna, which took decades to replace, if they could be replaced at all.
However, the needs of the the modeler are laughably miniscule compared to, say the amount of lumber required to build even a small house, so why not use the best?
Hardwood is expensive, but dimensionally accurate poplar will yield a good result that will be very satisfying to work with and stay put for decades. Trim-quality clear pine will, also. Both will be expensive, but think of how much you pay for just as single car or locomotive?
One last suggestion for the diehard who insists on using building lumber: Get yourself a table saw with a fine blade, buy the lumber oversize, and rip it down to knot-free, straight sections yourself. Just make sure it's DRY; if not, you'll have to stack it and let it finish curing for another year or two.
ROAR!
LION not get lumber from store or yard. LION gets lumber of him from BARN. Stored in the barn is all kinds of nice flat lumber, well aged having been salvaged from buildings we have taken down more than 30 years ago. I took truck loads of the lumber to the carpentry shop, and pre cut the pieces that I would need, brought them upstairs and built train tables.
When LION visitms Menard's him looks at the lumbers. You can get some nice straight lumbers if you look at the mahogany, oak or maple. Pricy but straight.
Actually, Br. Placid stored lumber in the barns, Br. John stores his lumber in the attic above the power house. Nice stuff up there, but not in the quantities kneaded by a LION.
For the layout structure, LION uses foam for risers and roadbeds.
Is good enough for a LION!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Deleted...wrong thread
- Douglas
Yes the quality has gone down over the years.
I pick though the boards until I find enough straight ones.
When I need to, I buy 1x8's and rip to 1x4's since the 1x8's are usually better.
I'm also willing to walk out if I can't find straight boards and go to the other big box store.
Good luck
Paul
tomikawaTTModeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork
I also get my lumber from a local yard (although they do have several locations nowadays). Prices are comparable to the big box stores on many (but not all) items, but the lumber available is generally of much better quality. I used 2"x4" and 2"x6" dimensional lumber, left over after building my house, for the benchwork support (gee, I musta "accidentally" ordered too much ) but all benchwork was done using "Select" 1"x2" and 1"x4" pine - straight and true for both sizes and knot free for the smaller, with only tight, small knots in the 4" stuff. If I can't find the sizes or lengths that I want, they'll rip it from larger planks and cut it to lengths suitable for carrying in a small car, no charge. Even better, when I recently built the long-delayed second level of my layout and needed a lot of sheet material that wouldn't fit in my car, they re-activated my long-dormant account to save me the $50.00 delivery charge.
Wayne
doctorwayne I also get my lumber from a local yard (although they do have several locations nowadays). Prices are comparable to the big box stores on many (but not all) items, but the lumber available is generally of much better quality. I used 2"x4" and 2"x6" dimensional lumber, left over after building my house, for the benchwork support (gee, I musta "accidentally" ordered too much ) but all benchwork was done using "Select" 1"x2" and 1"x4" pine - straight and true for both sizes and knot free for the smaller, with only tight, small knots in the 4" stuff. If I can't find the sizes or lengths that I want, they'll rip it from larger planks and cut it to lengths suitable for carrying in a small car, no charge. Even better, when I recently built the long-delayed second level of my layout and needed a lot of sheet material that wouldn't fit in my car, they re-activated my long-dormant account to save me the $50.00 delivery charge. Wayne
The chain bigbox stores near my house also have "select" grade of pine boards. Forgot about that, but that's what I use for most any project that can use pine. The 1x boards tend to be straight and fairly knot free, as you mentioned.
Santa Fe all the way!Has anyone else noticed the steady decline in the Quality of wood at the big box stores? I went to Lowes today to resupply and had to look thru a mountain of twisted, bowed, beat up 1x3's and 1x2's to find some reasonably decent pieces. I even looked at their premium pine section and other than less knots, it was just a twisted, bowed etc as the other. Makes it a bit trickier to build good benchwork with is junk. What are your thoughts?
I ordered a bunch of 1x4s online from Lowes once. Big mistake! When I saw what was loaded on the cart, I pulled about 15 of them and asked to have them replaced; warped beyond belief, knotholes, chipped, cracked, splintered, you name it. Who BUYS this junk? Do yourself a favor, and go to a yard that's known for quality wood, or set aside an afternoon to go pick through their stock. You'll be glad you did.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 I ordered a bunch of 1x4s online from Lowes once. Big mistake! When I saw what was loaded on the cart, I pulled about 15 of them and asked to have them replaced; warped beyond belief, knotholes, chipped, cracked, splintered, you name it. Who BUYS this junk?
I ordered a bunch of 1x4s online from Lowes once. Big mistake! When I saw what was loaded on the cart, I pulled about 15 of them and asked to have them replaced; warped beyond belief, knotholes, chipped, cracked, splintered, you name it. Who BUYS this junk?
Contractors, mostly. Tore out a bedroom that the previous owner had added to my buddy's house. Behind the paneling (no drywall) was the darnedest collection of warped wood you ever saw. On anywhere from 8 inch to 20 inch center as well, but that's another story.
Sometimes, even a locally-owned independent lumber yard is no better than Home Depot or Lowe's. We have one here, but the customer is not allowed to pick and choose. You pay for what you want and they bring it out with a fork lift or by individual pieces -- customers are not allowed into the area where the lumber is stored.
This discussion is very informative. I also have found the lumber at Lowe's & HD to generally be crap. Finding this I have decided to by 3/4 " birch plywood and rip it into 3" or 4" strips. The cost per strip for 3" would work out to about $3.13 and $4.17 for 4" strips.
The cost on the HD website today shows the crappy 1x4 white pine furring strips to be $1.92 each and select pine as $9.18 per strip.
Considering the very poor quality of the pre cut lumber vs the cost and time/labor involved in cutting the birch sheets I will be using the birch plywood. I'd prefer the benchwork be straight and of better quality. Ripping it for me isn't a big deal but I understand that could be a big issue for some folks.
The last time I made an addition to the railroad I had to pick through the pile after work at 7:30AM looking for a few straight boards with less than 20 knots per foot, cracks, splits, gouges or twists and wasted almost 30 minutes to find 3 boards that were usable. After cutting it and assembling it I discovered the wood was so soft the screws barely held so I needed to disassemble it all and add glue.
My new layout will be in 24x32 building and will start soon. Lots of wood and sawdust. So.......I'll be off to the table saw for a while if you need me! LOL
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Milepost 266.2 Medina1128 I ordered a bunch of 1x4s online from Lowes once. Big mistake! When I saw what was loaded on the cart, I pulled about 15 of them and asked to have them replaced; warped beyond belief, knotholes, chipped, cracked, splintered, you name it. Who BUYS this junk? Contractors, mostly. Tore out a bedroom that the previous owner had added to my buddy's house. Behind the paneling (no drywall) was the darnedest collection of warped wood you ever saw. On anywhere from 8 inch to 20 inch center as well, but that's another story.
Based on random taps and presses ont he paneling in my basement, this is what I expect to find when I start ripping it out so I can rebuild with a vapor barrier, insulation, and proper 16" on center stud walls with drywall that I can attach the layout directly to. I don't trust what's there to hold anything.
Going with ripped plywood myself this time, instead of dimensional lumber. My previous layout came out fine, I got decent lumber at Lowe's, but it wasn;t cheap. What I don;t have is a table saw, and ripping 4x8 sheets of plywood isn;t a one man job anyway. I'll just have them cut it on the panel saw when I buy it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
And then I found this - instead of paying for all those cuts, I can build my own panel saw and cut all my wood myself in my garage. No connection tot he company, I just came across this while looking at panel saws
http://a2equipment.com/panel-saws/
Or I could do it laying down with a DIY track saw, which is even cheaper! Hmm, could cut splines for roadbed with it, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtlxOQrXhEo
rrinker And then I found this - instead of paying for all those cuts, I can build my own panel saw and cut all my wood myself in my garage. No connection tot he company, I just came across this while looking at panel saws http://a2equipment.com/panel-saws/
That is slick. Looks safer than a table saw too.
oldline1 This discussion is very informative. I also have found the lumber at Lowe's & HD to generally be crap. Finding this I have decided to by 3/4 " birch plywood and rip it into 3" or 4" strips. The cost per strip for 3" would work out to about $3.13 and $4.17 for 4" strips. The cost on the HD website today shows the crappy 1x4 white pine furring strips to be $1.92 each and select pine as $9.18 per strip. Considering the very poor quality of the pre cut lumber vs the cost and time/labor involved in cutting the birch sheets I will be using the birch plywood. I'd prefer the benchwork be straight and of better quality. Ripping it for me isn't a big deal but I understand that could be a big issue for some folks. The last time I made an addition to the railroad I had to pick through the pile after work at 7:30AM looking for a few straight boards with less than 20 knots per foot, cracks, splits, gouges or twists and wasted almost 30 minutes to find 3 boards that were usable. After cutting it and assembling it I discovered the wood was so soft the screws barely held so I needed to disassemble it all and add glue. My new layout will be in 24x32 building and will start soon. Lots of wood and sawdust. So.......I'll be off to the table saw for a while if you need me! LOL Roger Huber Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I am lucky in my area the local Lumber yard has mill cut 1 x 3s and are all square edge stuff which looks like the supplier that they get them from is just running quality 1 x 12 boards through a gang saw.
The Lumber yard sells them as Furring Strips and I usually buy them by the bundle (10 to a bundle) for $1.29 each.
I sort through the stuff and have found 8 ft 1x3s without a single knot. Those I save out for better projects I do.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I was cutting wood for supports for wall #3 and got about 50% wastage cutting around the knots, warp, etc. I thought I looked this stuff over? Definitely trying out the small, local Lumber Co. next time.