I have 2 geared engines and am thinking about building a corner shelf layout focused on logging operation. I am thinking of having the engine house and small saw mill at one end of the layout, then a double switch back that takes up the rest of the "L" shaped shelf space to gain elevation up the mountain to the log loading camp. A spar tree with a donkey skidding in logs via a "high line" operation. Track would be laid right on the dirt with some creek fording along the lower portion of the line. Something along the lines of the Elk Creek logging operation in WV. Here is the base plan that I am thinking of stretching it into the L shape to add more operation to it. Mike
Here is what will be the primary motive power. Repower and painting will happen shortly.
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Hi emdmike
I have a problem with small mill and a zig zag up the hill.
You obviously plan on spectacular scenery ie real world engineer's nightmare.
So the logs coming in to the mill would be very large quantities of high quality timber logs.
So they would have to come down the railways main line which more than likely
would not be just thrown on the ground but would have been engineered you mention a zig zag expencive to build and engineered.
With all that work to build it, it would not be going to a small mill it would be going to at least a medium sized mill along with the companies stores and loco works and conection point to a main line railroad to ship its product to the rest of the country. there is also probably a mill town there as well.
While the bush spurs and logging camp tracks may just be thrown on the ground and wood trash used to get it runable the main line to the mill would be a lot better built even running shays so they could get to the mill as quickly and trouble free as possable, time is money.
I would sugest having a good read and plenty of research about timber railways.
There is a really big risk of overdoing the rustic charm that would be disasterouse
Don't forget the big stack of green two foot long logs for loco fuel I have no idea why green wood was used as loco fuel but it was.
regards John
Good points Johh, but there were many small 1 and 2 engine operations that fed a small saw mill, used switch backs as a cheap and quick way to get up the side of the mountain. The Elk Creek Coal and Lumber Co ran right down the middle of a creek along many sections of its line, the Climax was prefered as its drive line was higher up away from the water. The whole mill complex would be mid size if I modeled all of it, but it will be more of a false front with just the log pond and the ramp/drag chain pulling logs up into the mill modeled. My layout room is quite small, 8 foot by 9 foot and I have my workshop in there(I rework/repair brass trains), so I have to leave room for that. I plan to put the layout along 2 walls opposite my work bench. I am also building a small "pizza box" layout featuring a trolley running thru a run down part of town. I just started aquiring the stuff for the logging layout. My engines will burn coal, not logs. Mike
OOP'S should have looked more closely at loco picture that would have told me it was not a wood burner no spark arestor.
I have to say that seems odd all that free fuel going to waste the wood trash.
Mind you the trash might not be big enough as loco fuel.
Mike,
I also operate an HO PFM 3-truck Climax (two of them, actually) and am fond of compact layout designs. I had trouble enlarging or viewing your plan and am not exactly clear on all of the titling. Understanding that I may well be confused about the plan, here's my observations:
You mention an engine house near the mill, but I don't see one on the plan. Apparently the mill is at "A", and the log loading area is near the camp cars at "D". If so, then the "backwoods" area with the stream fording is close to "D" and thus at the uphill portion of the layout. It may be difficult to model such a stream convincingly in such condensed area - where is the stream running to or from?
The plan shows a depot, which is not characteristic of a backwoods logging line, as there is no conventional passenger or express service. In a mini layout, is it needed?
It appears that the tail tracks (at "B" and "C") are relatively short, and would thus limit the length of trains. The primary operation is thus having the locomotive move about two log cars out of the mill, run around them at the siding, and then shuffle them to the log loading area. Reverse, repeat, reverse, repeat. What other operation would you like to include?
A mini or micro layout is a prime opportunity to really focus on high levels of detail, recreating the atmosphere of just one or two "scenes". You may be able to achieve more of an accurate image of logging by reducing the amount of trackage and then crafting the layout as a potential segment of a larger plan once space is available.
By mentioning the "Elk Creek logging operation", I surmise that you are speaking of the Elk River Coal & Lumber Company and its Buffalo Creek & Gauley RR. There is a great deal of information available on this line, as it survived much longer than many logging operations. The definative history is The Elk River Coal & Lumber Company, self-published by author R. Brooks Stover in 2010. The book includes a track plan for the mill site at Swandale. Mr. Stover is a Master Model Railroader and has also compiled a tremendous amount of information at www.buffalocreekandgauley.com
I suggest that you think about the priorities for the layout. Do you want to shuffle cars back and forth in a repeating pattern, or do you want to use the space to craft an image of backwoods logging where tracks weren't crammed together?
Good luck, and keep us informed. Bill
John Busby Hi emdmike OOP'S should have looked more closely at loco picture that would have told me it was not a wood burner no spark arestor. I have to say that seems odd all that free fuel going to waste the wood trash. Mind you the trash might not be big enough as loco fuel. regards John
If your logger is in a National Forest and 1910 is history, you WILL burn oil, by stone tablet from Washington. The Federales didn't want your wood and coal burners starting forest fires.
Looking at my logger's prototype, the spurs to the cutting sides were laid on low trestles thrown together from slash not worth sending to the mill. The main stem was built like the N&W - steel bridges, tunnels, deep ballast. The latter was paid for by the prefectural power authority, which used the slim gauge to carry supplies to a couple of up-river dams.
You could get that effect by building the middle part of your Z route to higher standards and have the rails appear to continue off the ends of the shelves. The dam builders built it, used it, then abandoned it, and the logging company bought it for a dollar at a county tax auction...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Great responses, I enjoyed reading them! Yes, the Elk Creek Coal and Lumber is my inspiration, and the Climax will get a few mods to more closly resemble thier #3. PFM did produce an exact model of #3 but it was a late run and quite expensive, one on ebay and one at brasstrains.com right now. But way beyond my budget. I got this one under 300 with the original box. And this version has spoked nickle silver wheelsets instead of the more common solid disc wheels, many being just brass. I plan to use my supply of woodland scenics 4% grades, which I have done before and my 2 truck Shay will handle about 5 loaded logging skels going down grade without sliding backwards if I stop on the grade. Obviously I can shove a few more emptys upgrade if I want to. The switch backs will have short tail tracks, so short and often trains from the woods reload camp to the mill will be the norm. I wish my PFM Shay was a 3 trucker, would better represent the shay from the Elk Creek. But the $100 2 truck with a bad solder joint in the crankshaft was to tempting to pass up at a local show last year. Took me all of 5 min to flux and reflow the solder joint to fix the crankshaft. And most of that was waiting for the iron to heat up! I use the Turtle Creek decal set from the MRR series, but change the "central" part to Lumber Co. using decals from the Microscale logging set. The Shay is the 2 spot, so the Climax will be #3. I have been watching for a nice small to mid size steam era saw mill, I either find huge ones, modern ones(walthers) or expensive craftsman kits. The most likely canidate is the old Suydam kit, its about the right size and I have built thier mostly metal kits before. Most of the stuff on my layouts is old school, late 50's thru late 70's product. Who says you need brand new high doller RTR stuff, not me! Mikie
That plan is just for inspiration, I will stretch it out into a L shaped plan when I build it. I cant find any L shaped logging track plans online that I like or are not much larger in size. Mikie
Usualy the mills burned thier own waste wood to power thier steam engines that drove the saws. Most logging engines burned coal or were oil fired. Operations like Cass, Elk Creek Coal and Lumber ect all burned coal. I will probably set both of mine up for oil burning since the Climax is already that way, and I just need a tank hatch cover for my Shay. I got my old Climax to run, but the motor's speed surges and gets very hot, magnet is shot. I have a NWSL 1630 can motor on order. One day I do want to try replacing the magnet with the little button style from Micromark and see how it runs with a proper strength magnet and not a weak one. With all the gearing, a total of 6 worm gears(2 in the main gear box and 2 in each truck) makes skewed armatures and flywheels pointless. Just a smooth and strong motor is all that is needed. She runs well when the motor decides to smooth out some, but usualy just surges due to the weak magnetic field it has right now. Mike