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New N-Scale Door Layout

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New N-Scale Door Layout
Posted by ScrewySqrl on Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:25 AM

I've been using a great 30" x 54" N-scale layout for several years.  I have the opportunity to updste to a new larger railroad.

 

desires for the new railroad:  

36" x 80" door layout w/ extruded foam scenery and paper mache mountains.

11" minimum mainline radius (9-3/4 allowed in sidings)

LONG mainline run: multilevel, double folded dogbone is the plan.

Switching should be able to be run without disturbing the main line, and be interesting/challenging to use.  Not a timesaver, which is frustrating, but should require fiddly moves to spot everything.

No particular prototype is being modelled.  Should be a fantasy line where I can run 'heritage' steam one day, a long freight the next, and a shinkasen bullet train from the year 2100 the next day after that.

 

Below is a rough draft of the plan, though I'm not really satisfied with it.  Its a bit 'spaghettu bowl, no passing sidings, and I'm sure I can do better in 4 feet by 6+ inches for switching.  the listed 2% grade may need to be 2.5% to actually get 2 inches clearance.

1st draft of layout

Tags: door , layout , n-Scale

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by Steven Otte on Monday, September 29, 2014 9:05 AM

Seems to me that a crossover at the base of the green grade and another just past the bridges at the top of the grade would give you the passing track you want. And if you want more switching, replace the fake tunnel with an industry appropriate to the mountain setting, like a mine or sawmill.

--
Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editor
sotte@kalmbach.com

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Posted by AltonFan on Monday, September 29, 2014 11:26 AM

If you put any crossovers between the mainlines, you will create a reverse loop.  Make sure you wire it properly.

Dan

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Posted by cowman on Monday, September 29, 2014 11:38 AM

Welcome to the forums.

If you  haven't purchased your door yet, check a Restore or other used "stuff" store.  They often have them at very reasonable prices, and even if they are damaged your foam will  cover most small holes and dings.  Also, consider making your mountains from foam.  You can build it hollow if you want to save materials, weight almost not a factor.  I have  gone to construction sites and asked for the scrap, they are usally glad to have  me take it.

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Monday, September 29, 2014 9:03 PM

thanks for the responses!

 

I don't think I'd want to put in crossovers on the long straights for a passing siding, if only to avoid creating reverse loops --id ike to keep the wirig simple for DC control.  perhaps having a passing siding on the mountain loop? or following my grade up, just of the straights?  If so, I should probably shift the yard/storage tracks to the back end, or stretch the curves with an extra 5" straight to give more room for the switching area.   I'd like at least 5 industries to switch, but for the switching to be essentially self contained.

I'm also thinking of trying to resdesign in Atlas code 55 instead of code 80.

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:27 PM

Hey, I know it'll be hours before this gets seen, but I have a second draft with better switching:

 

2d draft

 

i eliminated the useless yard lead, improved the industrial sidings (though I may stretch out the runaround a bit more to make an A/D track 

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:16 AM

davidmbedard
Looking at your plans, I would say to really reconsider them. You want a steam excursion one day and 11" radii will not cut it. 11" will be pushing the lower limits for sure....not only for running, but for overhangs Nd other considerations.

If you want long runs, can you do an along the walls layout? What is your room space? Cramming as much rail into a limited space will only frustrate you and is the farthest thing possible from a realistic layout! Not to mention that it'll hold your running attention for about 5 minutes.

Consider buying some planning books. Consider going to train shows to see what you like. Consider joining a local group. Consider, consider, consider. Nothing worse than planning a layout, building it and then starting over....very expensive.

Just my thoughts.

David B
 

 

didn't you read my particular wants?

 

I want a long mainline run that is not a simple oval: I have a huge mainline run of over 2 scale miles!  Its what I want

I want challenging, interest-retaining switching: I have it, but it undoubtably could be improved.

 

I have room for a door, not an around the room layout.  not to mention I know my limitations on what I can effectively make into detailed scenery -- I don't WANT anything larger than a door-sized layout.  You are are basically suggesting that because my wants and limits aren't what you want, that mine isn't a real railroad and I should start over.  Not very constructive.  I know from my old layout that the steam I have (a 4-6-4, 2-8-2 and a 4-6-0) will run successfully around 9-3/4 curves, 11" should be fine.  My basic design fits my needs, I just know it can be improved.

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by NeO6874 on Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:04 AM

ScrewySqrl

 

 
davidmbedard
Looking at your plans, I would say to really reconsider them. You want a steam excursion one day and 11" radii will not cut it. 11" will be pushing the lower limits for sure....not only for running, but for overhangs Nd other considerations.

If you want long runs, can you do an along the walls layout? What is your room space? Cramming as much rail into a limited space will only frustrate you and is the farthest thing possible from a realistic layout! Not to mention that it'll hold your running attention for about 5 minutes.

Consider buying some planning books. Consider going to train shows to see what you like. Consider joining a local group. Consider, consider, consider. Nothing worse than planning a layout, building it and then starting over....very expensive.

Just my thoughts.

David B
 

 

 

 

didn't you read my particular wants?

 

I want a long mainline run that is not a simple oval: I have a huge mainline run of over 2 scale miles!  Its what I want [...]  I know from my old layout that the steam I have (a 4-6-4, 2-8-2 and a 4-6-0) will run successfully around 9-3/4 curves, 11" should be fine.

I think the point David is making is that, in order to accomodate your wants (long mainline, etc.) onto your givens (36x80" table), you're making some potentially serious concessions in other areas

Because of that, if you can change your "givens" around (say 2x 18" deep x 80" long tables along a wall, or in an 'L' shape), you can better accomodate your current list of wants, and possible future wants as well (such as full-length passenger cars -- assuming a 1:2 ratio between N and HO ... passenger cars have a hard limit of 12" R curves, even with modification*)

 

 

*Note -- I'm remembering my Walther's heavyweights as 26" min (as shipped), or 24" min with modifications. They might be 24/22.

 

 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Friday, October 3, 2014 9:12 PM

regardless, I only have the small bit of wall real estate to put the short end against a wall that will be shared with other things (mostly bookshelves), so I'll be sticking with the door.

 

 

here is another draft design, that stretches out the mainline a bit and removes the storage yard and puts an inglenook sidings yard in the switching area.

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by NeO6874 on Tuesday, October 7, 2014 5:32 AM

Pic doesn't look to be linked right Sad.

 

 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Tuesday, October 7, 2014 7:29 PM
 indeed, the first post had an incorrect link. now ti wait a day to ee it :(

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by LensCapOn on Friday, November 7, 2014 5:29 PM
This is a late post on what may be a dead thread but……
 
Two thoughts:
  If you use flex track 13”-15” curves could be used which would greatly improve the appearance and operation over 11”.
A twice around would have almost the same mainline run while leaving more space for yards and switching.
 

 

If you’ve already started on the new layout, please pay no attention to this advice.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:34 AM

LensCapOn - I am not sure, whether the OP is willing to accept any critique or advice on his layout design. From his answers, I gather he just wants to have a confirmation of how great it is. Well, it isn´t and DavidB was perfectly right in suggesting to reconsider it.

I am afraid the OP will sink quite a lot of $$$ and time into this layout, only to find out that he wanted too much in too little a space and that he won´t be able to incorporate even a trace of realistic looking scenery. Operation will remain at letting a train circle the loop, as the yard he designed is pretty much useless with its many unnecessary switchbacks and short leads. If the OP would be open for suggestions, I would recommend to look into some proven designs, like MR´s project layout "The Salt Lake Route" or an adaption of an HO scale layout I made some time ago:

I would also recommend to invest a little time and do some reading before indulging into a costly experiment which will definitively not lead to where he wants to go. There are some excellent books available from our host (and others), just to name a few:

Martin McGuirk´s "N Scale Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby"

John Armstrong´s "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"

But who are we - with our background of 50+ years in the hobby - to dare to give this advice Angry

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Sunday, November 9, 2014 6:39 AM

Actually, I pretty much abandoned this site due to my inability to respond in a timely manner, and my posts simply vanishing.  

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Sunday, November 9, 2014 7:29 AM

after seeing that this post actually showed up instantly, Let me say I've greatly changed from those posts in october.

 

I'm working with two  basic plans: a long double folded dogbone based on this:

 

that curretly looks ike this:

 

or a much less expensive track, whose industries were insired by the track shape:

 

that has two variants I'm looking at:

Either with a river:

or without:

 

Actual costruction starts in about a month

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 9, 2014 8:44 AM

The last two ideas remind somehow on MR´s 2010 HO project layout "The Beer Line", which was a modular concept that could be assembled in a couple of different ways.

I found this layout quite fascinating and have adapted it for a N scale layout of my own (which, alas, never got built):

The layout is of similar size of what you can accomodate, but looks a little bit more "elegant"

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Monday, November 10, 2014 8:36 PM

anyone else?

 

I see the Beer Line similarity

 

Is it better with the river or without?

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by angelob6660 on Monday, November 10, 2014 10:34 PM

You could do it without the river.

Modeling the G.N.O. Railway, The Diamond Route.

Amtrak America, 1971-Present.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 11, 2014 12:47 AM

The river adds a touch of scenic interest, so I would keep it.

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:52 PM

this is what I will probably be building:

 

red: mainline

orange: A/D track

Yellow: yard

dark blue: engine storage

Pink: caboose storage

light blue: industry tracks.

Purple: interchange and eventual storage yard.

 

back & right sides will be against the wall

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by BerkshireSteam on Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:26 PM

I remember you posting that one Madog. You still kept the river the same though. Personally I never liked how the river just ended into a wall when in this configuration. The 'L' and 'F' layout configurations handled this better. I suppose one could model a large [brick or stone] culvert with the city built on top of it, I have seen that before but not with a building also there. I gravitate towards plausible more so than prototypical now.

I had stepped away from the hobby for a while, but seeing MR's new annual layout has peaked my interest again. I want to get the January issue and read the article first before I make a final decision though. I know share a house.. or rather some friends now share their house with wife and myself and I finally have some room build a small layout. We have a HCD that I maybe can use if it's the right size, and after cleaning out a back room there was a set of 18 inch folding closet hollow cores that maybe could be used as removable sections.

Either way we have a local 'rehab' store that is supplied by Habbitat For Humanity, so I know I can get lumber and such  materials for fair prices.

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Posted by abbieleibowitz on Monday, December 1, 2014 1:59 AM

Since you're buy lading on a door in N Scale, you should at least consider the new MR series that just started about building just such a railroad.

Lefty

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Posted by abbieleibowitz on Monday, December 1, 2014 2:01 AM

Darn spell check! Of course that should have been "building on a door" not "buy lading." What does "buy lading" even mean?

Lefty

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Monday, December 8, 2014 5:26 AM

I have looked into the project door layout. It's nice track plan, but a little too close to 'ordinary oval' to really appeal to me.  I'll be watching/reading for any insights though.

Here's my primary plan right at the moment:

red: mainline. 

Yellow: yard

Pink: caboose track

Purple: runaround and passenger station

Blue: Industry sidings

Orange: KATO Unitrack viaduct on piers as a curved bridge. 

 

I plan to use this HO scale barge as the car float:

I'll just barely hold the track on it -- which is rather prototypical.

 

 

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by mactier_hogger on Monday, December 8, 2014 6:22 AM

ScrewySqrl

I have looked into the project door layout. It's nice track plan, but a little too close to 'ordinary oval' to really appeal to me.  I'll be watching/reading for any insights though.

 

 

 

 

 

It's hardly on ordinary oval with it's staging at the back AND a branchline leading  out of town!

Dean

30 years 1:1 Canadian Pacific.....now switching in HOSmile

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Monday, December 8, 2014 11:26 AM

mactier_hogger

 

 
ScrewySqrl

I have looked into the project door layout. It's nice track plan, but a little too close to 'ordinary oval' to really appeal to me.  I'll be watching/reading for any insights though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's hardly on ordinary oval with it's staging at the back AND a branchline leading  out of town!

 

Its still 4 left turns and keep the hammer down for the mainline Big Smile

 

I like more meandering mainlines

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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Posted by BerkshireSteam on Thursday, December 11, 2014 12:45 AM

you track plan is an oval squished a little in the middle. Just saying.

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Posted by ScrewySqrl on Thursday, December 11, 2014 6:59 PM

BerkshireSteam

you track plan is an oval squished a little in the middle. Just saying.

 

 

and that makes a lot of difference

When I hear the iron horse make the hills echo with his snort like thunder, shaking the earth with his feet, and breathing fire and smoke from his nostrils, it seems as if the earth had got a race now worthy to inhabit it. 

-- Henry David Thoreau

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