DCC dummy

[Anonymous]

Hey gang--
I have been out of the model railroading scene for 10 years or so while I played in some other hobbies but now am looking to get back. I'm clueless on this DCC stuff even though I've tried to read up on it. I have questions.

First, to run a multiple consist loco unit. Such as 5 SD-45's would I need DCC units for all? I'm assuming so.

Does the DCC unit allow for constant lighting and directional in the loco's or not?

I think that's it for now. Hopefully some of you guys can help out a not-so-newbie! Thanks for your info and time!

Regards,
5150

[Anonymous]

Welcome back to the hobby! DCC is definitely worth adopting from the start, mainly because it's less hassle than to have to convert all your locos later on (which I'm facing should I decide to go DCC). You're right in assuming you'll need decoders in each loco - some systems will allow you to run a single DC loco alongside the DCC, but I can't recommend this - there's a worrying buzzing noise and the general feeling seems to be that it might damage the motor.

Regarding lighting, decoders have function outputs for things such as this - a good example would be a lighting kit sold for a British diesel loco which is designed for use with a 4-function decoder, giving individual control of each marker light (allowing you to display prototypical light codes). A good hobby store should be able to help you with choosing decoders to suit your locos. If you're starting again from scratch, I would suggest you take a look at Bachmann's new DCC-equipped diesels - decent engineering, nice details, DCC decoder fitted, and ludicrously cheap. Worth a look if they offer a loco and paint scheme you want.

Bachmann also make a DCC-compatible system named "E-Z Command", but there's been a bit of debate over this - it can only handle a limited number of locos (9 DCC, 1 analogue), and has limited function controls. General opinion seems to be that it's worth buying if you're thinking about DCC (like the locos, it's cheap and solid), but if you're planning a large layout you'd be better off investing in a higher-specification system from the start. Hope this is of help!

[nfmisso]

Read: http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm

[Anonymous]

Cool, thank you guys. That helps tons! Unfortunately my local hobby store is completely clueless for the most part on such things like DCC. Instead of looking into anything the store owner tells me, "you don't want that!" and tries to get me something else. So anything cool will have to come from my own research like this.

From what I've read also I might have to look and see which system might work well with my new loco's as well as the 25 Athearn blue box models I've had for years. It seems you can convert these but it isn't as simple of process. I just can't see tossing 25 engines. I'd rather re-motor them than completely start over.

Anyway, thanks again for your help and time. It's appreciated!
5150

[Pennsy58]

I've converted over many old athearn 's from my collection. It's not hard at all. No re-motoring required. I did spend the time to clean them up well and they run great under DCC. I even changed the lighting over to LED's which improved things I think. Might I suggest you take a look at Kalmbach's book, DCC make easy. It's basic and helped me alot to figure out this DCC thing. It covers layout wiring, locomotive conversions, and such.
I have been using the MRC Prodigy system , and it has suited my needs as a one person operation. I recently updated to the Prodigy Advance and it is great. No engine restrictions, better programming capabilities, not that I mess with all the CV stuff.
I too recommend the Bachmann DCC equipped loco's. They are impressive given the price.
I am similar to you, in that I returned after many years of looking at my hobby in boxes. Unless you go wild, DCC is simple and easy to learn.

Another great site to learn is www.wiringfordcc.com, alot of good articles and a forum where problems are posted and answered.

[Anonymous]

That is definitely one thing I'm finding out is that technology doesn't wait for you! [:D] DCC was just starting to be something of a possible thing when I started boxing things up and now a few(quite a few) years later it's insane! I'm getting ready to buy a house and am going to devote an entire room to my RR in hopes of some quiet time with pops. Should be cool. And since I'm starting from scratch I want to go DCC.

Good to hear on the Athearn's working with the DCC. I'd hate to have to not go DCC route because it wouldn't work with my current fleet.

As for Bachmann? I plan to stay away. I know they have made leaps and bounds making a better product but I have been burned way to many times by them so I'll have to look elsewhere for DCC. I'll check out the MRC and have also looked at some of the others off the Model Railroader Mag site.

I'm pretty sure I understand the principal and the basic workings, but the smaller details I am clueless on.

Is there anything I should look for in a controller? I would like one of the hand held-walk around models. Any good or bads to look for here?

Thanks again guys! This place is a wealth of knowledge!
5150

[Anonymous]

In Pennsy58's excellent response above, the link includes the comma. As long as the comma is in there, the link won't work. Try this instead:

www.wiringfordcc.com

[Pennsy58]

Sorry about that...

[Anonymous]

No worries Pennsy.....I got it. :)

Ok, here is another question I thought of today at work when obviously I should have been thinking about work.

Multiple consist DCC. Say for instance I am running five SD45T-2's all in a line. All DCC. How in the world does that work. Do you have the option to control more than one loco at a time? Or would they all have to be linked together somehow?

Once again my cluelessness even surprises me! :) More to this stuff than I thought but am learning a ton, so that's a good thing!

5150

[Pennsy58]

Two methods with consisting, basic consisting and advanced consist.

With basic consist, you assign the same engine number to all the engines in the string, then they all respond to one number on the controller. This is what I consider the old way or the only way if your dcc system does not have advanced consisting.

With advanced consist, it is a function available on the dcc controller. For instance, with mine, I select advance consist, then you add all the different engine numbers to the consist list. The first engine number you enter then becomes the selected number that will control all of the engines on the list, or the entire chain of engines. This setting, or consist is not permanent.

When you are done with the lashup, you simply turn of the consist list for that train. The advance consist method is easier and you dont have to go back and re-program the individual engines when you are done.
Other dcc systems might have you do it a little differently, but the concept is the same.

[Anonymous]

There's also the 'universal consisting' like Digitrax and others do, where the consist is made up in the command station by specifying a "top"/lead loco, and adding other by address to the consist. Good for quick consists like using helper engines.

[Howardr]

Hi All,

Really glad some posted this DCC topic. I started collecting HO long before DCC was on the radar screen so I have a whole lot of locomotives, both diesel and steam which aren't DCC.

I would like to make my layout all DCC. I will take your advise and buy the DCC book spoken about above but could some one recommend a good DCC system...not entry level. Also is there any way to run non DCC locomotives on th same layout as the DCC eqipped types.

Does anyone know of any group (person or company) which would do the DCC conversion for a fee?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Hi all, sorry to jump in but I've been having the same questions myself. I hove only just started in the hobby, have picked up a couple of locos and some cars, etc., and have finally started construction of an 18X60" 'beginner's' module that will one day become part of a larger empire. I haven't yet gotten any kind of power pack or DCC system simply because a) there isn't a hobby shop within a 2-hour drive of here, and b) I don't have a clue as to which of the entry-level DCC systems are better, and which decoders will work for them. I have been looking mainly at the Digitrax Zephyr, MRC Prodigy Advance and now Bachmann's EZ DCC. A little help?

[ndbprr]

I took a different spin on your message title that I need to think about and that is installing a decoder in a dummy unit. As long as the Amperage limit wasn't exceeded any number of engines could be daisy chained to the dummy with miniplugs for motor power. That way a single decoder could run all engines by making new lash ups. Now I know that isn't as flexible or desirable as having decoders in every engine but it sure would be cheaper for someone with serious budget constraints.

[FCnota]

Hey everbody...I was in the same boat, left all the train stuff in boxes, but now my son is 6 and is really into it. I have engines from when I was a kid and was able to convert most of them to DCC. Since DCC was new to me as well, I looked around, compared and went with a Digitrax system. I have 2 throttles, one advanced and one very basic (UT1). I can honestly say I've had nothing but great luck with the Digitrax system. I purchased mine on-line and got fantastic support from the seller and Digitrax when I had questions. Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Howardr

I would like to make my layout all DCC. I will take your advise and buy the DCC book spoken about above but could some one recommend a good DCC system...not entry level. Also is there any way to run non DCC locomotives on th same layout as the DCC equipped types.

Does anyone know of any group (person or company) which would do the DCC conversion for a fee?

Thanks.

Many if not most of the current DCC command stations let you run one (1) DC engine on the layout at address '00'. But the engine will "sing" while it's idling, since DCC systems use AC to the rails. The singing nose goes away as the engine accelerates.

Most local hobby shops that carry DCC equipment also provide decoder installation. Tony's Train Exchange also provides the service at a reasonable price (http://www.tonystrains.com/). But it's not that hard to do; if you look around, there's usually a drop-in decoder of some sort or another that installs pretty easily in older locos. If you're comfortable with a soldering iron, it doesn't take long to learn how to do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Cool, looks like I'm not the only one with questions on all this stuff! :) And I still have more although I'm looking for more opinions here.

Choice of which DCC brand. I know this is as crazy as which is better, Chevy or Ford. I have been doing research on this DCC thing for almost a month solid now. Every night after work pouring thru hundreds of websites, looking, learning. Here's what I've found. Please stop me if I'm all wet.

For the most part most high end systems are compatible with other decoders. So if I get a NCE system I can still run one of the Digitrax decoders for my old Athearn blue boxers.

Wiring is pretty much the same on all systems within limits. I think it basically comes down to how many options you want, correct?

Here's where I'm going with this. I'm pretty impressed with NCE's system. I started by picking a controller, or cab as I guess they are called. I wanted a one handed throttle control, backlit LCD screen and as many options as could be possible to be packed into a system. Even though I am a newbie and just starting out I'm going for an initial top of the line system. I can't see me not liking DCC and wanting to go back so why not for go the headache of an update later. If there are options I don't use I won't use them. I will have options for the options.

Now what do you pro's have to say on NCE? Heard any good? Bad? Seems like there is always good and bad about all. That's just how it is. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

And here's another question for you guys. The hand controllers or cab's. Can I run one from one plug and my dad run another from a remote plug across the layout at the same time only running different engines obviously? I love dad but my new brass Daylight is going to be hard to pass off! :)

Thanks again guys. You really are a huge help in all of this!
5150

[Pennsy58]

Look closely at the Bachmann DCC system, it is limited to 9 engines I think.

As fot the controllers, yes most systems will allow you to have several handhelds that can plug in remotely from diferent locations around the layout.

Never used the NCE system, but I've heard quite a few good things about it. Especially if you are interested in wireless controllers.

[JoeUmp]

5150 - there are two other good primers on the DCC market. Try the BIG BOOK OF DCC from Digitrax and one from Rutger Friberg (I forget the exact title.) Both are good references including advanced concepts like consisting. Even though the Digitrax book uses their systems in the examples it still applies to other systems in general. Due to the large number of systems available neither includes any true step by step directions on how to do anything, just the general basics.

Joe

[Anonymous]

one of the DCC books has a comparison in the back of the book. I think it is DCC Made Easy, but not sure. I know with Digitrax you can run infered and radio handhelds at the same time, but you have to have receivers for both. Youralso right on the Chevy vs. Ford thing, Kinda depends on your taste. I was in the same boat here few months ago, and decided to go with Digitrax simply because I get discount at local Hobby shop and chances are that is what we are going to put in club layout. You picked excellant question to post. Just remember, cost doesn't mean it's good or bad...pay attention to options and expandability.

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 5150


.....and as many options as could be possible to be packed into a system. Even though I am a newbie and just starting out I'm going for an initial top of the line system. I can't see me not liking DCC and wanting to go back so why not for go the headache of an update later. If there are options I don't use I won't use them. I will have options for the options.

If you are really serious about wanting a system with the most options you better check out ZIMO. Options like signal controlled speed influence, location dependent function control and the ability to update the command station, throttle and decoders by the end user via Internet, free of charge, are just a few options you won't be able to get anywhere else.

Art

Zimo Agency of North America
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[Anonymous]

I started with a Digitrax Super Empire Builder and recently have switched over to an NCE system. I would go with the NCE as a starting point in DCC. You'll find you can build from there with their system. As for the question of can 2 people operator on different sides of the room at the same time, the answer is yes. Think of the DCC system as a signal generator sending information out over your rails. From your hand held controller, you send out the information to each engine. Each engine is identified by a unique number, or address. The information goes over the rails into the decoder and the engine responds. The NCE system supports more than 1 cab(hand held) so more than one person can operate a train. If you install 1, 2, or more plug in panels, you can go anywhere, plug in and take control of your engine(s). Most, if not all systems, allow you to send the information into an engine, unplug, and move to a new location with the engine following the commands you sent it before you unplugged. Once you plug back in, you resume control of the engine.

There is much, much more to this than I've tried to explain, I would agree with the others and pick up one of the reference books to get an idea of train control with DCC. You'll be amazed at the possibilities.

[Anonymous]

Cool, thanks again guys. This place is such a huge help and I think that's the one thing I've really missed about this hobby is the willingness of people to help. In the r/c car and boat world you just don't seem to find that as much. I can pretty much go to any model railroad show and can be sure of striking up a good conversation with somebody.

Model Railroaders are just good people!

I talked to the guys at NCE again and their system does in fact handle both types of consisting. Basic and advanced. Larry said it's stupid simple to setup the complex version and that's part of the reason people like their stuff. Simple.

Thank also for the pointers to the books. I'll check that out. I'm not only learning for me, but for my dad as well. He's not the most technilogically advanced guy out there but his video game computer geek son is! So I'm taking it on to learn everything there is to know about this stuff. So I'll grab some of those publications and see what I can learn.

Thanks again guys. This is pretty dang cool.
5150

[murrietajazz1]

Thank you so much Pennsy58 for directing me to that website on DCC. It has a wealth of information and I printed almost 100 pages of super good stuff. I have just about finished a 4X8' N scale layout in Southern California based on the Atlantic Longhaul but am planning a big layout for when I retire to Idaho in two years (less if I win the lottery) and I would like to go DCC. WOW, what great information! Thanks again all you guys whose stuff I read all the time. What a great group for such a great hobby![:D]

[Anonymous]

5150,
I don't think you would be at all disappointed with the NCE system. Like Digitrax and others, NCE offers a very nice system. I really like the design of their cabs, but did not want to spend as much as what their system cost. I ended up with the MRC Prodigy Advance which offers many of the same features, but for far less money. The drawbacks with MRC are that there is no cordless hand held controller option, the available current is less than on some competitors systems, there is no backlight on the controller, and MRC support has been sketchy at times. For me, none of these issues was significant, so I went this route and am completely satisfied with my system. The pluses with the MRC PA system are the handheld throttle (or cab), four digit addressing, number of available functions, ability to use multiple throttles, multiple consisting options and very reasonable price. These are my observations of these systems, your experiences may vary.

[Anonymous]

5150 -

Digitrax makes a special harness and a decoder/harness combo for the old Athearn blue-box locos. I was going to purchase one (one is even claimed to be "no-solder required"), but after reading some infor on the MR website on how to convert one of these locos, decided to save the money and try it using a standard decoder, no harness. Worked like a champ and is very reliable.

On consisting, at least with my Digitrax Zephyr, if I make a consist, all of the locos in the consist are controlled by sending commands to the lead loco in the consist, at least as far as speed and direction are concerned. I believe that you can control the function outputs separately on the other locos in the consist, though.

[rrinker]

The Digitrax Athearn harness really are no-solder....

that is, if you can continue to live with the Blue Box 'cab light'. DIY isn't dificult at all - just remove the brass springs from the motor before sodlering so you don't melt the motor endcaps, and be careful of the brush springs when you pop them off - they can go shooting all over and are every bit as hard to track down as Kadee knuckle springs. On the bottom clip, there is a small tab that rubs the chassis - clip that off, and also put a layer of insulating tape in the motor cavity to be sure the motor is isolated from the frame. For the chassis side of the track pickup, easiest thing to do is drill and tap for a 2-56 brass screw, and then solder to that screw. You can attach tot he fron light bracket, but that is only pop-riveted to the chassis and was quite loose on any Athearn I ever looked at - loose = poor contact. Then you can hook up proper front and rear lights to the decoder and stop melting the crew with a small sun in the cab.

--Randy