Styrene Backdrop Help

[donhalshanks]

I'm planning to mount 0.03" styrene sheets on my unfinished drywall around the room (w/curved corners) to use for painting on a backdrop. What kind of adhesive do I use in fixing it to the drywall, do I put it on in X patterns or do I entirely coat it with adhesive? Also, what is best for filling the seams, and is it ok not to finish dry wall seams and nail dimples in the drywall? Help greatly appreciated!

Hal

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting idea using styrene for a backdrop. I guess my initial reaction was "won't that be much more expensive than using hardboard (masonite)?" The other reaction I have is that any adhesive that will hold up such a large piece of styrene my be so thick that you won't be able to get a smooth backdrop. Along that line I would think with .03 styrene it would be best to fini***he seams and nail dimples. Of course I would think that filling the seams would be somewhat easy to do with either body filler (squadron green putty should do an excellent job) or just using plastic glue to fill the gap and then sanding down. I'm very interested to see if anyone has used styrene for a backdrop and what their results were.

[Anonymous]

Oops I realized that I used to word "seam" to talk about two different things. For the seams in the drywall I would think they should be finished along with the nail dimples to assure a smooth surface. For the seams in the styrene, I think some sort of plastic body putty or just plastic blue applied, allowed to dry and sanded down would do the trick.

[donhalshanks]

So far, I have a price of $6.59 for a 40"x72" sheet of 0.03" thk. If I buy 11 sheets it comes to $64.24 including shipping and 10% volume discount.

[Anonymous]

Wow. That sounds like an awesome price! Where do you purchase the stuff? I might need to check into something like that for some of my larger structure projects - sure beats the price of the 8x10 sheets!!

[CBQ_Guy]

I recall something in MR mag a few years back on working with styrene backdrop. You might want to check the magazine data base (called "Index of Magazines" at the top of this page) to see if you can find any reference. I'm almost positive it was written by one of the (then?) MR staff members concerning his own home layout.

[ndbprr]

Seems like overkill to me. You are going to fini***he drywall that has a flat surface and readily acepts paint and cover it with styrene that is glossy and doen't take paint as well. Plus the technology to eliminate the seams in drywall is foolproof and I would have no idea how to do that with the styrene. My advice would be to use the money for other things but to each their own.

[Anonymous]

I would also suggest using another material for the back drop. Hard board or the drywall itself would be better back drop.

Just my 2 cents.

[donhalshanks]

Reason for considering styrene is that there is a problem doing the heavy sanding/fsmoothing of drywall finishing for some medical reasons in the house. So I was looking for a solution to eliminate that .

DKELLY- the pricing I got for styrene is at web site for USP United Plastics Corp www.usplastics.com.
On the home page click on "Sheet,Rod,Shapes" and then click on the styrene picture.

Still wondering about an adhesive to use.

[donhalshanks]

Paul- thanks for the mag article lead, but searching on anything with styrene and backdrop seems to turn up empty. I too remember an article back there some place. Hal

[Anonymous]

It would seem that glueing the styrene directly to the dry wall might not be the best solution, especially since finishing the dry wall is not an option. Also, should you ever move attaching the styrene to the wall might not be the greatest idea. Perhaps some sort of styrene or ABS frame attached to the benchwork that the styrene sheet can be attached to?

[ndbprr]

Well if finishing drywall is a problem I might suggest going back to 1940's technology that always worked. Buy a torn or end of stock piece of linoleum with a flat (Meaning no patterrn) surface. It accepts paint readily, should come in at least a 12' length in one or more directions and will minimize seams. As I recall in my aging memory bank edges were joined to a piece of wood with contact cement making the seam almost invisible.

[Anonymous]

ndbprr

I remember seeing pictures of layouts using linoleum as a back drop. Stuff looked pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Hal,

Thanks for the website for the plastic supplier. Did some quick math. United Plastic sells a 40 by 72 inch sheet of .02 styrene for 4.66. Shipping of one sheet to West Texas would be 5.03 - total 9.63. Evergreen styrene sheets are 6 by 12 and you get three in a pack for $2.49. It would take about 13 packs of the Evergreen sheets to get the same area of sheet - or $32.00 plus shipping or sales tax depending on where you buy it! Not only cheaper, but when making larger structures, roads, control panel fronts etc., you could drastically reduce the number of seams by buying the larger sheet. (I notice they also sell ABS sheets and some rod/tubes etc that I haven't checked out yet).

Well, I might not have helped solve your problem of using styrene sheet for a backdrop, but certainly have supplie me with a great place to get styrene sheet and save quite a bit of money!!

That's what I love about this site. You can read a topic that on its face has absolutely no relevance to you . . . .but in the end you might come across something that is big time relevant!!!!!!

[jrbarney]

Hal,
As others did, I tried, without success to find the MR article. Still curious, I started doing Google searches and finally found something useful using "model railroad styrene backdrop" as the search term. Here's the link:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mikemcnh/flatcar/artmer0504.html
In it he references another article, and I'm going to follow that link to see where it leads. I sincerely hope this helps with the health concerns for your family.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

I think the styrene backdrop is an excellent solution, especially after re-reading the article. Note that the material used in that article is twice the thickness of what you are considering so supporting it may be more of an issue. I can't picture how rigid a large sheet of .03 styrene might be between independent uprights but installing it against the wall should require no more than thin vertical beads of construction adhesive and a few screws in pre-drilled holes along the lower edge . While drying, lean some lengths of 2x4's or other lumber against it to keep pressure against it while drying. Rags or towels at the ends will prevent marring.

I don't see any benefit in using linoleum since you have super-smooth styrene available at a good price. Linoleum would only give you the same challenges you face now and the scrap can't be used to scratchbuild a new box car. (Though there probably is a 1952 article about Linoleum rolling stock somewhere.)

Also, don't worry about the wall conditions in the event you move in the future. I've said this in another thread. Gypsum board it the easiest and cheapest thing to repair in your home. Unless you are renting your house or have built it to resell it over the next few months, use your house for your own comfort and enjoyment now. Don't minimize your use to save a few hours or dollars in patching gyp board years down the road.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Wayne,

I think your comment on .030 styrene might be a little thin is an excellent one, one I didn't think about previously. I think I read that Linoluem box car article! Wasn't it the one in the same issue where they guy build the most highly detailed 4-8-8-4 in the world using a broom handle and a lathe? (it is amazing how far products in this hobby have advanced - it also makes me totally respect the modeling abilities of some of the pioneers in this hobby!).

I agree that you should enjoy your home, but with the amount of wall that Hal is looking to cover, I think making some sort of frame attached to the benchwork is the way to go. I also never thought about moving (hey, I was in the Navy and how hard can it be to stay at Norfolk, the largest concentration of Navy bases in the world? - but 2 years after buying my house I got transferred to CA), but it can happen. Also, I think that having the backdrop attached to the benchwork would allow easier modifications to the layout in the future. Just my .02 worth :)

[Anonymous]

While I still prefer the backdrop fastened to the walls, my current in-progress layout will have it attached to layout itself. Since weight and portability is an issue for much of this layout, I'm going to look at styrene for both the backdrop and the front profile board.

Just occured to me that in using this material, much of the artwork could be done on a horizontal surface prior to installation, which might be easier for some.

These sheets are avaiable in varius thickness, including 0.02 and shipping is reasonable. I priced out 10 sheets of the 0.03 thickness and shipping was around 15 bucks.

I sure would like to hear about someone's experience using the thinner sheets of styrene and comments about their rigidity before I spring for a supply of my own, though!

dkelly: My brother-in-law was stationed in Norfolk and later went to work for the Newport News shipyard so got to stay in the same house for some time.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

I am blown away by the price of those sheets. Although I don't know if I'll use them for a backdrop, I'm definately going to buy some of various sizes for my structure modeling. Cheaper and sure beats endless splicing!!

He's a lucky guy . . . .but I'm going to assume he didn't have a layout to move lol. I knew the minute I started building it, I'd get order outta there lol.

[donhalshanks]

Plastics company here in Columbus I visited to look at samples convinced me 0.06" styrene is better choice than 0.03" if put on drywall. However, they referred me to Franklin International for adhesive expertise (800-877-4583) , since many construction adhesives will over time destroy the styrene or wreck the styrene. Franklin's product to use for styrene is "TYPEBOND Interior/exterior constuction Adhesive" and there is a solvent free version to use indoors. They gave me the store source to use in Columbus.

One of many flooring places I visited if using vinyl approach , got me with their installer and came up with a really good solution. He recommended using Mannington Hush Pad, a laminated pad used under carpet. Same properties as vinyl but much lighter to handle and cheap (62 cents sq ft). I have a piece I'm testing for paint, but should be same as for back of vinyl.

Good tip... this same installer gave me a method to use if putting vinyl on wall myself. Lightly screw on ends of a long 1 x2 (or 2 x4 ) horizontal to wall with vinyl folded over it. Apply adhesive to upper half and fold up and maybe tack the top. Then glue bottom to wall. When dry, pull out end nails and wood and easily fill small finishing nail holes with spackle..

Right now I'm leaning to styrene sheets on wall because of the excellent surface and minimal seam prep. Cost either way is about equal. You've all convenienced me I can probably make linoleum or styrene work.

Thanks to all who've responded! I appreciated the styrene back drop article you found me, appreciate the advise on thickness, linoleum vs styrene, and premanent affixing to wall vs. portablility.

Still like to hear if any others listiing have related esperiences. Its an awesome forum. Hal

[Anonymous]

Hal,

You know what's really cool? You posted a question . . . .folks gave some answers, asked more questions, debated, compared and contrasted .. . . and then you put some additional information up related to what someone had posted as an alternative to your original issue. Everyone wins when things work like this thread!!!!

That's what I love about this hobby. The self proclaimed "experts" aside, there is no one way to do anything. The key is to learn about all the different options, opinions etc. and then give it a shot!

Looking forward to seeing the pics of your backdrop when you get it up!!

Dave