Any advice, am I doing it correctly? I have to beef it up with some more foam then newspaper wads and plaster cloth. Any help would be appreciated.
Lookin' good so far. I did something similar when building my layout. I took scraps of 1" foam board and used it as a skeleton for my hill. I then filled it with Great Stuff foam.
I would suggest making a web of cardboard since it is easier to change it. Basically you just take 1" wide strips of cardboard and glue down some initial strips going one direction. Then you would weave the other strips into it forming a web. You would then cover it with plaster cloth. However, newspaper works as well, you just need quite a bit.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Lehigh Valley 2089 Lookin' good so far. I did something similar when building my layout. I took scraps of 1" foam board and used it as a skeleton for my hill. I then filled it with Great Stuff foam. I would suggest making a web of cardboard since it is easier to change it. Basically you just take 1" wide strips of cardboard and glue down some initial strips going one direction. Then you would weave the other strips into it forming a web. You would then cover it with plaster cloth. However, newspaper works as well, you just need quite a bit.
Thanks LV, since that photo today I have added a lot more foam supports, reshaped the mountain and sides. This exactly how my son and I built that W/S learning kit. I have mounds of newspapers and bought a huge box of plaster cloth they use on real casts.
I have seen a video of the method you mentioned.
What I'm doing is making a list as I go along as to what would have been a better way to do things so when I do my next layout i'll be even better. I really am learning quite a bit. Like I was told when I first came here, just do it, make mistakes and learn from them.
Paul
Mountain-wise, looks good.
Is it removable? You'll want access to that hidden track eventually.
And it looks like quite a reach to work on, so being removable so you can work on it more easily would be a good thing.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Mountain-wise, looks good. Is it removable? You'll want access to that hidden track eventually. And it looks like quite a reach to work on, so being removable so you can work on it more easily would be a good thing.
Thanks.
It's not removable but I can easily reach all the way in from both ends. The worst that can happen is a derailment right?
Paul, when you place those W/S cast portals, either show solid rock above the capping or cut the slope to drop just behind the capping. From the base shape it appears that the flat foam will show well above the portal. If you need additional distance to contour the hill downward to the portal top, move them out away from the "mountain"
Solid rock above portal (do leave space for the castings to still be behind the cast capping)
Portal similar to your placement (hillside contour slopes down behind capping)
Not sure what is planned up to the base of the "mountain", allow the hill to slope down and out onto the curve. This can be done w/ foam or cardboard strips.
For future reference, it always a learning curve, constructing mountains of terraced extruded foam or cardboard lattice works easier and allows better flexibility of contour.
Keeping the portal slightly away from the backdrop allows to place the wing retaining wall and still have a touch of scenery (so casting isn't just planted flat on wall)
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
bogp40 Paul, when you place those W/S cast portals, either show solid rock above the capping or cut the slope to drop just behind the capping. From the base shape it appears that the flat foam will show well above the portal. If you need additional distance to contour the hill downward to the portal top, move them out away from the "mountain" Solid rock above portal (do leave space for the castings to still be behind the cast capping) Portal similar to your placement (hillside contour slopes down behind capping) Not sure what is planned up to the base of the "mountain", allow the hill to slope down and out onto the curve. This can be done w/ foam or cardboard strips. For future reference, it always a learning curve, constructing mountains of terraced extruded foam or cardboard lattice works easier and allows better flexibility of contour. Keeping the portal slightly away from the backdrop allows to place the wing retaining wall and still have a touch of scenery (so casting isn't just planted flat on wall)
Bob, thanks for your advice and photos. I'm a little unclear by what you mean though. In my photo the portals that are in place now are just foam. I plan on securing them to that foam with abutments too.
As for the backdrop and it being so close, well I really have no choice because the tracks are so close to the edge of the table.
Someday I'll have more room, I hope.
Paul_in_GA SNIP It's not removable but I can easily reach all the way in from both ends. The worst that can happen is a derailment right?
SNIP
If you can reach in both ends to clean the track, then will be OK. However, once you mount the portals, it may restrict your reach into the tunnel. I'd check that before gluing down the portals. My tunnels are single track -- and narrowgauge to boot -- so I made my portals so that they are removable to allow me to get my hand inside.
mlehman Paul_in_GA SNIP It's not removable but I can easily reach all the way in from both ends. The worst that can happen is a derailment right? If you can reach in both ends to clean the track, then will be OK. However, once you mount the portals, it may restrict your reach into the tunnel. I'd check that before gluing down the portals. My tunnels are single track -- and narrowgauge to boot -- so I made my portals so that they are removable to allow me to get my hand inside.
In fact, seeing how the moutain sits on the edge of the layout, you can cut access holes on the table edge side of the moutain to get more access to the track in the event of a derailment.
Paul_in_GA It's not removable but I can easily reach all the way in from both ends. The worst that can happen is a derailment right?
Sorry, but the answer is "Wrong." Remember, if anything can go wrong, it will. You may have a kink in the track that causes frequent derailments that eventually will drive you nuts. The track may come loose for some reason. Or....
I have subways. I run both NYC-style trains and trolleys in the tunnels beneath my layout. One day, a trolley stopped dead and shorted. I removed one of the liftoffs I'd carefully built and removed the trolley. That is, I removed most of the trolley, all but one of the wheels. It was nowhere to be found. I searched the easy spots, and then I used the onboard camera to look where it was hard to see directly. Nothing. Finally, I removed the final liftoff, the one I never take off because it's got a lot of wires going to it, and there was the wheel, a good 6 feet from where the trolley had come to rest.
Mr. Murphy had paid a visit to my layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Paul_in_GA bogp40 Paul, when you place those W/S cast portals, either show solid rock above the capping or cut the slope to drop just behind the capping. From the base shape it appears that the flat foam will show well above the portal. If you need additional distance to contour the hill downward to the portal top, move them out away from the "mountain" Solid rock above portal (do leave space for the castings to still be behind the cast capping) Portal similar to your placement (hillside contour slopes down behind capping) Not sure what is planned up to the base of the "mountain", allow the hill to slope down and out onto the curve. This can be done w/ foam or cardboard strips. For future reference, it always a learning curve, constructing mountains of terraced extruded foam or cardboard lattice works easier and allows better flexibility of contour. Keeping the portal slightly away from the backdrop allows to place the wing retaining wall and still have a touch of scenery (so casting isn't just planted flat on wall) Bob, thanks for your advice and photos. I'm a little unclear by what you mean though. In my photo the portals that are in place now are just foam. I plan on securing them to that foam with abutments too. As for the backdrop and it being so close, well I really have no choice because the tracks are so close to the edge of the table. Someday I'll have more room, I hope.
Paul, if you place those WS portals directly on that vertical foam ends, the foam extends well above the portal capping stones. This leaves no room to place "solid" rock castings. I would reccomend adding some foam to "furr out" the portal to scenic the slope or rock cut down to/ behind the capping. If the foam was a more solid extruded (pink/ blue) you could carve into the foam to show the rock. I don't believe this will work w/ the thinner foam uprights shown.
Also, do check the side clearance of your longest rolling stock and pilot overhangs of engines on that portal on the curve. You may need to widen the portal. I had to do this to the one in the first pic (track spacing on 40" rad curve and 2 1/2" track spacing). In Selector's layout thread, he shows this portal and explains how to widen.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/201663.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=14
I'm REALLY thin and I can get my entire arm in all the way through the other end so it's cool.
bogp40 Paul_in_GA bogp40 Paul, when you place those W/S cast portals, either show solid rock above the capping or cut the slope to drop just behind the capping. From the base shape it appears that the flat foam will show well above the portal. If you need additional distance to contour the hill downward to the portal top, move them out away from the "mountain" Solid rock above portal (do leave space for the castings to still be behind the cast capping) Portal similar to your placement (hillside contour slopes down behind capping) Not sure what is planned up to the base of the "mountain", allow the hill to slope down and out onto the curve. This can be done w/ foam or cardboard strips. For future reference, it always a learning curve, constructing mountains of terraced extruded foam or cardboard lattice works easier and allows better flexibility of contour. Keeping the portal slightly away from the backdrop allows to place the wing retaining wall and still have a touch of scenery (so casting isn't just planted flat on wall) Bob, thanks for your advice and photos. I'm a little unclear by what you mean though. In my photo the portals that are in place now are just foam. I plan on securing them to that foam with abutments too. As for the backdrop and it being so close, well I really have no choice because the tracks are so close to the edge of the table. Someday I'll have more room, I hope. Paul, if you place those WS portals directly on that vertical foam ends, the foam extends well above the portal capping stones. This leaves no room to place "solid" rock castings. I would reccomend adding some foam to "furr out" the portal to scenic the slope or rock cut down to/ behind the capping. If the foam was a more solid extruded (pink/ blue) you could carve into the foam to show the rock. I don't believe this will work w/ the thinner foam uprights shown. Also, do check the side clearance of your longest rolling stock and pilot overhangs of engines on that portal on the curve. You may need to widen the portal. I had to do this to the one in the first pic (track spacing on 40" rad curve and 2 1/2" track spacing). In Selector's layout thread, he shows this portal and explains how to widen. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/201663.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=14
Bob, I may be dense but I'm still not following you. I used a foam cutter to make exact duplicates of the portals.
The hydrocal portals will just rest against them. I plan on using newspaper wads to build up the mountain so that it falls down in front of the tunnel.
I can add plenty of rocks to the plaster cloth. And the sides will have plaster cloth on them where the abutments will go.
MisterBeasley Paul_in_GA It's not removable but I can easily reach all the way in from both ends. The worst that can happen is a derailment right? Sorry, but the answer is "Wrong." Remember, if anything can go wrong, it will. You may have a kink in the track that causes frequent derailments that eventually will drive you nuts. The track may come loose for some reason. Or.... I have subways. I run both NYC-style trains and trolleys in the tunnels beneath my layout. One day, a trolley stopped dead and shorted. I removed one of the liftoffs I'd carefully built and removed the trolley. That is, I removed most of the trolley, all but one of the wheels. It was nowhere to be found. I searched the easy spots, and then I used the onboard camera to look where it was hard to see directly. Nothing. Finally, I removed the final liftoff, the one I never take off because it's got a lot of wires going to it, and there was the wheel, a good 6 feet from where the trolley had come to rest. Mr. Murphy had paid a visit to my layout.
Well, if anything goes wrong I'll have to deal with it. It's a little late now to change it as the tunnel is made from W/S tunnel formers covered in plaster cloth. You'd need a chainsaw to cut through that thing.
It's a risk I'll have to take. Besides, this is only my first layout. Basically an exercice in learning.
The right hand vertical foam looks to be the portal height and will work to bring scenery down to the portal cap. The left side however has that vertical foam much higher. Place the portal against the foam and you will see that sheer vertical section protruding above the portal cap. The cap is only about 5/8" wide. This won't allow enough space to place scenery/ rock castings or added cut foam rocks w/o sinking the portal into the mountain. I would suggest building out the portal at least 1-2" to allow for this. Unless the prototype portal was placed/ built directly against a "solid' cut of stone, any loose rocks will fall on the tracks instead of behind the capping. You could easily cut a "horseshoe" of 1' foam and furr out the portal casting. This will also help when dropping the contours down into the corner @ the "wing/ retaining" wall. Hope this helps.
Also before installing those portals, you can modify the foam to add a tunnel liners. This only needs to be a short facade could be a piece of foam carved to rock and painted dark to match. You can see these done in some of my pics. One is even a painted carved pine block.
bogp40 The right hand vertical foam looks to be the portal height and will work to bring scenery down to the portal cap. The left side however has that vertical foam much higher. Place the portal against the foam and you will see that sheer vertical section protruding above the portal cap. The cap is only about 5/8" wide. This won't allow enough space to place scenery/ rock castings or added cut foam rocks w/o sinking the portal into the mountain. I would suggest building out the portal at least 1-2" to allow for this. Unless the prototype portal was placed/ built directly against a "solid' cut of stone, any loose rocks will fall on the tracks instead of behind the capping. You could easily cut a "horseshoe" of 1' foam and furr out the portal casting. This will also help when dropping the contours down into the corner @ the "wing/ retaining" wall. Hope this helps. Also before installing those portals, you can modify the foam to add a tunnel liners. This only needs to be a short facade could be a piece of foam carved to rock and painted dark to match. You can see these done in some of my pics. One is even a painted carved pine block.
Hi Bob, after a nap today, (I stayed up late last night) I slept on it and it hit me! Bingo! You're right, it looks stupid! I can easily remove the "brace" on top of that portal support and it will be more like the other one. After that it's easy-peasy. Newspapers and plastercloth and voila, mountain.
I completely understand now and I really appreciate the advice and photos. I would have put plaster cloth on it and noticed too late. LOL!
Now your cookin' running on all 8 cylinders. Been there too many times to count myself. When I will screw up- it will always be a dandy. Cut that piece 3 times and it was still too short!
Do check out all your clearances before permanantly attaching those portals.
bogp40 Now your cookin' running on all 8 cylinders. Been there too many times to count myself. When I will screw up- it will always be a dandy. Cut that piece 3 times and it was still too short! Do check out all your clearances before permanantly attaching those portals.
Oh yeah, regarding those portals. Well I used a hot wire foam cutter to cut them out using the hydrocal casted one as a template. Then I put it against the wall and ran two side-by-side trains with the longest rolling stock and they clear both sides. Not a problem.