What is the proper size ballast for N scale. Also is is there any articles out there that show the proper step by step procedure so i am not cleaning excess of my track. Thank you.
Depends what type of ballast you use.
If you want to use Woodland Scenics, Fine granules seem to work best for N scale and Medium granules for HO scale.
Use the search engine on this forum typing in "ballast". There are a whole bunch of threads, some quite recent, on the topic.
Regarding the proper amount of ballast, remember, less is more.
Rich
Alton Junction
Scenic Express #50 grade ballast works well for N scale. They have a variety of colors. I'd suggest avoiding Woodland Scenics and using a brand like Scenic Express made from real rock; it will be much easier to work with.
Rob Spangler
Lately, there has been a lot of comment about Woodland Scenics ballast and a lot suggestions that something other than Woodland Scenics ballast be used.
I disagree.
Woodland Scenics ballast is still widely used and with good reason. It is reliable, it is effective, it is realistic.
I don't doubt that Scenic Express ballast is a good product, although I have never used it.
Give Woodland Scenics ballast a try and decide for yourself.
I'll second Rich's comments.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
richhotrainWoodland Scenics ballast is still widely used and with good reason. It is reliable, it is effective, it is realistic.
I'll take this on as I'm one who recommends to avoid the WS product. I thinks it's so often used primarily because it's widely available. Many a hobby shop carries only WS brand, and many people who purchase it are unaware of the existence and/or properties of other products. As I've noted in other threads, there isn't a siginificant cost advantage to WS (on the Scenic Express site, their product is the same price).
As a former user of WS ballast, and someone who helps local modelers with scenery and ballast, I've noted that the most common complaints I hear about ballasting relate to the material floating when glued, and particles otherwise landing on the rails or ties even when brushing ballast into place before gluing (a result of static). Both of these are due to the lightweight walnut shells in the WS ballast. Other brands using real rock simply don't do this to any significant extent. I've been doing a lot of ballast work lately, using Scenic Express and natural sand, and everything stays exactly where I want it.
The above isn't to say you can't get good results with WS, or that users can be perfectly satisfied with it. However, I hear so many modelers, especially inexperienced ones, say that ballasting is the most difficult task on their layouts, and when I inquire I find most of them are using WS and complaining of it floating around. In the interest of helping newcomers to the process, I try to steer them to products that consistently result in less frustration.
That's it?
It floats?
Spray rubbing alcohol on it after spreading it and before gluing it and it won't float. It's that simple.
richhotrainThat's it? It floats? Spray rubbing alcohol on it after spreading it and before gluing it and it won't float. It's that simple.
Not necessarily. Even using plenty of wetting agent the WS product still performs differently from real rock. When thoroughly and properly soaked with "wet water" with alcohol or another wetting agent, WS is still more readily displaced due to its relatively light weight. Spray and glue a test section of WS and rock ballast side by side and compare how they behave. I used to use WS for mainline track and various other sand and rock products for secondary tracks, mostly because I couldn't find rock of the correct color for what I was modeling. I found that far more care was required in spreading and gluing WS to achieve good results.
Rob, I am starting to find your argument in favor of Scenic Express ballast compelling.
I have never tried it, and my layout is complete, but if I ever start my Dream Layout, I will give it a try, at least as an experiment.
Anyone else care to weigh in on Scenic Express versus Woodland Scenics?
Thanks for keeping an open mind, Rich. And note that I see nothing that makes Scenic Express "better" than other brands of real rock ballast, like Highball, Arizona Rock, Smith and Sons, or others. All should work just as well.
Since the OP was asking about N scale, one reason I mentioned using real rock was because the small particle size in N leave less pore space in the finished ballast for water and glue. Using a product that's less likely to be displaced by liquid is more important in N than larger scales.
I hope others respond to the thread with experiences specific to N scale.
I've never had a problem with Woodland Scenics ballast floating. I use the fine grade and "wet" water as a wetting agent. In my opinion, the pre-wetting is the most important step in ballasting. I suspect that many who experience floating ballast use either too little wetting agent or apply it improperly: ie too quicklyI use a sprayer which gives a fine mist, making it more-or-less impossible to apply too much too quickly. This means, of course, that it takes longer to apply a sufficient amount, but the wetting agent should eventually penetrate completely through the depth of the ballast and seep out from the lowest level. If it collects within the mass of the ballast, it's not sufficiently "wet", and the ballast will float.Once the ballast has been thoroughly wetted, the glue mixture will be drawn into and down through it, and I always apply enough that it also seeps from the lowest levels of the ballast shoulders. This ensures that all of the ballast will be firmly bonded in place once the glue has dried, although drying may take several days.While rock ballast won't be as prone to floating, a similar wetting and gluing procedure will work equally well to secure the particles in place without creating a bonded crust atop unglued ballast - a disaster waiting to happen the first time you use your shop vac to remove dust from the layout.
Wayne
I used WS on 90 % of my layout, the last 10% I used real rock. While the result were great in both cases, I wish I had used real rock to begin with. It required much less fiddling around with, and I would have finished the task in half the time.
Just my humble opinion.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
richhotrain Anyone else care to weigh in on Scenic Express versus Woodland Scenics?
I agree with Rob that WS is harder to use because it does move around a lot more that real rock. I currently use WS, real rock and dirt. I have used only WS in the past and have been able to get good results but I do think that Rob is right about pointing out other options to newbies....
In general I think ballasting is one of those steps in building a layout where you have to develop a skill. It can take some time to learn how to do it well. I have vacuumed up less than satisfactory efforts (while still in the dry stage) on more than one occasion..
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have used both real rock and WS products over the last 40 years. Obiously both work. WS ballst is made of crushed shells (walnut I believe) and are therefore much lighter than stone, they also pick up a static charge when brushing into place and therefore tend to sit on top of the ties and in the web of the rail which means a lot more brushing to get things into place. If you use wet water using detergent you'll also have more of an issue with grains floating as they are lighter than the water. Use Alcohol as the wetting agent instead as alcohol will neutralize most of the static sharge.
I do prefer stone ballast (i used Highball the last time) mostly because of its natural color, but also because it stays where you put it and it doesn't matter what kind of wetting agent you use and because there's no static sharge, you don't need as much, which means everything flows easier and dries faster. And lastly, rock just looks like rock, (more obvious in HO scale).
Cost-wise it's pretty much a wash. WS's advantage is they have exclusivity contracts with hobby shops and point of sale displays. You often can't even find other products even if they do have them in stock, or you get the " we can order it for you" answer.
As Rob said, Scenic Express isn't the only supplier out there, you can look up the following brands on the web: Highball, Arizona Rock, Smith and Sons amoungst others.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 As Rob said, Scenic Express isn't the only supplier out there, you can look up the following brands on the web: Highball, Arizona Rock, Smith and Sons amoungst others.
So far, everyone who favors natural rock as an alternative to Woodland Scenics sings its praises.
But, there must be some downsides to the use of natural rock. What are the downsides?
richhotrain So far, everyone who favors natural rock as an alternative to Woodland Scenics sings its praises. But, there must be some downsides to the use of natural rock. What are the downsides?
richhotrain But, there must be some downsides to the use of natural rock. What are the downsides?
Fred about covered it. The only potential downside that would be of any concern to me is conductive/magnetic particles. I've never had a problem with all the natural scenic materials I've used over the years, but I know some people have reported finding magnetic particles in some natural dirt. A good brand of rock ballast shouldn't have any such particles. This is the first I've heard of detection circuits being affected. In practical terms, the downside to using real rock is virtually non-existent for most of us.
The only time I ever have a problem with floating ballast is if I try to put a gallon of ballast adhesive onto an area the size of a Dixie cup.
I have used both Scenic Express AND Woodland Scenics ballast without any difficulty.
For gluing ballast I use 70% isopropl alcohol with 1 drop of Dawn and matte medium.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad