Anyone try the new Bachmann DCC yet?

[hminky]

I believe the point of this discussion was what it can do.[banghead] It is aimed at entry level, which is great. Most modeler's don't have a large layout. All it has to do is run several locos and blow their bells an whistles. Does anyone have an idea what it can do? I have a $2000 dollar box of Onboard analog command control[xx(][xx(] sitting gathering dust and wi***here had been DCC 20 years ago.[:D][:D]. I have Digitrax now.
Just a thought
Harold
On30-1/4" scale narrow gauge for everyone
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com

[Anonymous]

enduringexp: BRAVO! bccammack's opinion isn't worthless, it's his opinion which he stated as such and didn't flame anyone else in the process.

rororo: I don't know if you remember the flap when Cadilacs were supplied with Chevy engines. And believe it or not many gm products use interchangeable parts, to include chasis. While some of your statements are valid, I have to respectfully disagree with others. There are litterally dozens of instances when a factory manufactures a name brand and a generic brand using the exact same materials, equipment and procedures. I used to do the purchasing for a summer camp and would always get a good deal when chips were delivered from the manufacturer in the wrong bags, same stuff, different price.

I don't think anyone who has posted here expects the Bachmann system to have the same features as Digitrax, NCE or any others. These folks know the limitations of the system (like you said, you get what you pay for) and want to know if it does what is advertsied. I dare say you are condemning a system sight unseen, without anything to back it up instead of the price.

Often times, new technology is introduced in somewhat higher capacity things. As the technology grows, simpler stuff is introduced. I dare say my 49.00 VCR works just fine. I don't expect it to do the things of the $400 models, but I have had no problem with it. It does what I want it to do. You are right, there is probably only $30.00 of electronics in it, but so what? It works.

BTW: My mechanic friend is the one that suggested that I get parts for the Mazda pickup to put on my old Ford Ranger - they were the same - and cheaper.

[bcammack]

I have been an automobile mechanic in some fashion or another for most of my life. I have eaten, breathed and slept automobiles for most of my life. I have been a race car driver, a crew chief, a fabricator, etc. Trust me, there's little or no difference in the quality of the materials until you get to the stuff that passengers touch.

I am not trying to turn your arguments around. The problem is, apparently, that your argument isn't terribly clear to me. What is it? That Bachmann didn't build enough into the EZ-Command to suit you at that price? That there's no place in the market for that feature set at that price? What?

dkelly - the Mazda Tribute has a warranty that's a year longer than the Ford Escape. They're the same vehicle! Go figure... [:)]

[Anonymous]

bcammack

If your automobile needs right now are only that you need a vehicle to drive 5 miles to work, then don't ask to buy my 8 year old Explorer, it wouldn't be a wise investment, go out and buy a brand new Hummer because it has the ability to go offroading in the Rockies should you decide to in the future - and it can tow a howitzer!

[Anonymous]

You guys are right . I'm wrong. Sorry

[NZRMac]

rororo
You mentioned the digitrax zephyr system is it any good. I'm just starting out with a new layout, and want sound features etc, so it sounds like a good place to start.
Tonys train exchange has a good price even converted to NZ dollars it's still cheaper than a Lenz starter system here.

[Anonymous]

I have a point about manufacturing costs and profits. I used to work at new car dealers. While doing a 2 year stint at a Lincoln-Mercury dealer in a Detroit suburb, Ford Motor Company wanted to let us know just how profitable a car was. They informed us that after all manufacturing costs, incentives, discounts, etc, that they made a $10,000.00 profit on a Lincoln Town car. At the time, Town Cars were selling for $18,000.00, and that price also includes the profit the dealership makes and transportation costs. I would guess the Town Car to be about $5500.00 to manufacture. But hey, you get what you pay for, right??? No, maybe Digitrax, NCE, etc, are really putting it to you???
I think it is human nature to defend your choice, but I don't think the fact that someone pays more for something means everything else is "cheap". I can admit when I pay too much for something after a less expensive version comes out, but not everyone is like that. They have to justify the expense somehow.

[Anonymous]

Enduring: Excellent point. That's why I refuse to look at a single computer price tag after I buy myself a new one lol.

Maybe Digitrax, NCE etc are putting it to us. Maybe the extra features actually do cost that much more to produce than a bare bones system. I think the bottom line is that every person needs to be able to say: These are the features I want. This system has these features. This is the price. Is it worth it to me? Based on the price should I give up some options if the price is too high, or should I say what the heck and get a little fancy because it isn't that much more? What works for me might not work for you. I think it is fantastic that there are so many options out there in the DCC world and it all is compatible!!!!!

[Anonymous]

As a model railroader and someone who worked for 20+ years in electronics engineering, I would like to add my 2 cents. On one side with new technology there is a need to recoupe investments and also a period where we can make some money as a company with this new technology. People may start out in this or any other business because they love trains, electronics etc. But the bottom line of any business is to turn a profit. Now DCC may have been around enough that Bachman is taking the line that we can produce a basic product cheap overseas, and buy a large segment of the market through agressive pricing. Or it can be just a cheap product. Time will tell. There are examples of both items.
I returned (2) sub $50 DVD players that just were very unreliable. Then I bought a $79 one that has been great. I'm a pro photographer now by trade. There are $2000 3-4 MP cameras that will blow away a image from $500 6MP camera.
You can cut down on the quality and the design of a product to cut cost. Early on they found they could produce CD's for the same or cheaper than tapes or albums, but were able to get 2-3 times the price, because it was New Technology. Then 10 years later we all got a check for $8 because they artificialy held the prices up. The power supply may not be as clean. The noise level on the transmitter or receivers may be noisy. It's not just black and white. I for one hope it works wonderfully . For a layout my size it would be a great bargain. BTW Where does one find a $53 DCC unit ?

Thanks, Dave

[Anonymous]

Dave,
Wholesale trains (wholesaletrains.com) lists the Bachmann DCC as a pre-order for $53, but I e-mailed them yesterday and they informed me that they have them in stock. They also have the sets with one decoder equipped loco (you cannot remove the decoder, and they look like Bachmann standard line locos) for $79. I am still trying to find out what else the thing is capable of. people have mentioned it is low in power (1 amp?) but it is made by Lenz, so maybe Lenz boosters will work. I am ordering one as my entry level DCC. I don't know much about DCC, so this will start the education. I don't plan on running more than 2 or 3 locos at a time for now, so it may be just what I need. I think it's just like everything else. Start out small, and trade in or trade up later, if the need arises.

[Anonymous]

Does it have consisting?You see, My new layout depicts the city of Roanoke and Blue Ridge grade on the N&W. About 85% of my layout requires helpers. If there is no consisting, it's out of the picture. That and the operator is stuck to one spot on the layout. I have over 50 feet of mainline I need to watch over,plus this is a one person system. In my opinion the E-Z Command is operationally inflexible. Thats why I've decided to go with MRC's Prodigy. One good point though, n scalers on a 4x8 would love the system.

[Anonymous]

one word bachmann ....must i say more come on its junk .....

[Anonymous]

Oh, so greagw, you have first hand experience with the new Bachmann system and can give a well thought out, intelligent review on it's shortcomings? Or are you just a sheeple, having been told it's junk and just following suit? Although I like to consider myself a patriot and would give my life to protect the freedoms we have here, a response like that belongs back in your preschool class where you are obviously the slowest student in class. If you don't have anything ADULT to say, how about remaining a spectator?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greagw

one word bachmann ....must i say more come on its junk .....

Yet another reasoned, insightful, helpful, fact-filled post.

Thanks for that.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

I dare say there are a lot of garden and On30 model rails out there that wouldn't be in the hobby were it not for Bachmann. Yes Bachmann is not LGB (for the outside guys) or Brass (for the O scale narrow gauge guys) but you can't argue the fact that there are now many folks enjoying those scale/gauges that wouldn't be if it were not for Bachmann's price point and, from what I can tell, good value for the money. Look at how many Readers Choice awards this company has received recently. I'm sure many of these outdoor/On30 guys will "upgrade" to the higher quality/price stuff, but would they have even been in the position to do so if it weren't for Bachmann? It would be intersting to know what LGB or the brass manufactureres think of Bachmann. I bet the smart ones see Bachmann as bringing in their future customers.

Perhaps Bachmann can do the same for DCC.

[Anonymous]

Well everyone, Bachmann is introducing a walk around throttle and an 8 amp power supply for 2005. I think this will be the hottest new DCC product other than Prodigy advance in the coming year. I'm chompin at the bit to get one, but I ned to learn more on the capabilities. So far you guys have been arguing over cars and money[#offtopic]
Lets get some real feedback 'kay.[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#dots]

[SP4449]

GOT ONE! Got a unit with a loco for $75 at a train show in Omaha.

It was developed in partnership with Lenz Electronik. As purchased, the set includes a 1 amp wall transformer power supply, a 8 1/2 x 11, seven page user manual, 3 hookup cables, the control unit, and the locomotive.

The user manual says that more than one loco can be run at the same time with one of the two running "in background" (read - unattended) at the last throttle setting and direction. Selecting which one is under control appears to be a toggle action between the loco address buttons and the moving the speed control. The manual used just two locos as an example but it may be possible to control 3. (Watching the unattended locos could be a challenge.) All programming occurs on the main track although a programming track setup is explained for first time use of a newly installed decoder. Power to the programming track is limited so as to prevent damaging the decoder.

Units can be consisted. This is accomplished by assigning the units in the consist to the same address (controller button).

Loco address is canned into the control unit and each loco responds to the button it was assigned in "programming mode" with (buttons 1 through 9). Button 10 is for analog (straight DC) locos. Other Bachmann E-Z decoder equipped locos are easily programmed to the seperate buttons.

Locos with "user installed decoders" can be reprogrammed to respond by setting each one on the track and assigning it to a button on the control unit.

The "funtion mode", allows the funtions built into the decoders to be accessed with the loco buttons acting as the F1 through F8 and F10 controlling the headlights on the loco. No mention of what F9 does. If a Bachmann DC speed controller (item number 44212) is used with the DCC controller (using the included cable), button 10 becomes a tenth DCC channel with the DC controller taking over the analog duties. The E-Z Controller speed control has momentum built in.

If more than one Command unit is used on the layout, each must be attached to its own power district but "they must be double-isolated so that no train can bridge the joints between sections".

The locomotive that came with the unit is a nice little Bachmann GP40 in Santa Fe blue and yellow freight colors equipped with EZ Mate II couplers. It has an onboard DCC decoder and can be used with the E-Z Command unit or any other DCC control system. It has a 28 step throttle assigned to controller button 3 but can be assigned to any of the buttons. F10 controls the constant lighting and is factory set so F1 controls the dimming.

Have a test track to try it out. BTW - Walthers shows it for $140 in the 2005 catalog.

Later. [:D]

[Anonymous]

Finally some first hand knowledge. SP4449, it sounds as though you approve of the system. Would you recommend it as a good starter set, or as a limited use, toy type system? Are the features advanced enough for somewhat realistic operation?

[Anonymous]

SP4449,

Thanks for reporting your findings. Is there a way to have two throttles operating at one time?

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

SP4449,

Thanks for reporting your findings. Is there a way to have two throttles operating at one time?

I played with it a bit at Hobby Visions. You can use two throttles, although the second one was actually a regular powerpack that was being used to control the DC loco. I didn't think to ask if two DCC throttles could be used at the same time, although I suspect they can.

You can control more than two locos at a time, the impression the manual gives of only "two locos" is based on the provided power supply and HO locos. N scalers could likely control four at a time. :)

[SP4449]

Hi Folks.

I feel the unit is definitely a good starter. As it is sold, it is not a controller for multi-operator layouts. Although you can have more than one loco running, only one is under control at once, the other is running "unattended" and to have more than one controller connected to the layout, each has to be in its own power district. It is meant for small pikes where the builder is just getting the empire underway. The controller must be attached to the track at all times since it supplies the track power which means you are tethered and can't walk around with the train controlling it from seperate plug-in panels. That, I would say, is its greatest limitation, at this time.

I think someone posted that the Bachmann website detailed offerings for 2005 to expand the capabilities of the unit: larger power supply for one. I am sure the same thought went into the desire for continued customer loyality as went into the features in the original basic offering: that it can be expanded later as the user desires, or not. If the CEO can only manage a 4 x 8 pike with two or three locos, this E-Z Command will be a great way to go.

The locomotive is not top of the line, detail wise. But it does have a can motor in it, LED headlights and can be used with other DCC systems. If the user wants more than the three road names offered (see full page listing in the 2005 Walthers catalog on page 861: a low nose Santa Fe and Chessie GP40, and a hi nose Norfolk Southern GP50), the decoders offered by the common manufacturers can be installed in locos of choice for use on the pike.

I think we can [:)] today and thank Bachmann [bow] for boiling some pretty high brow technology down for the common man and for opening the door to future technology that is sure to follow. I [^]