I purchased a used layout that I finally put on legs. I am starting to rewire the track, and decided to experiment with operating a loco on specific sections. Well I quickly found that the track is extremely dirty and oxidized. So I did a bunch of research and found four possible methods to pursue.
1. Joe Fugates 600 grit and mineral spirits method. (I am going to do this for the initial cleaning).
However I was wonder if I could use 100% synthetic ATF instead of mineral spirits? Or Use mineral spirits then follow with ATF.? I have used ATF to lube the rods on my locos. I read somewhere that some MRR's were using it to protect and improve conductivity on rails. Any thoughts on this?
then follow up with one of these three..
2. Gleaming
3. Mothers metal polish method
4. No Ox
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No Ox seems really interesting however I have read of gunk build up on the rails, which concerns me a bit. Not sure if this is a result of users error but I am not keen on using something that may create a buildup of film.
Gleaming and Metal polish sound safe.
Any suggestions.
Thanks,
Mark
If you go the ATF route, clean the track FIRST. Also, if your layout is in a dusty environment, the oil will attract the dust. I've used ATF to keep mine clean, and I haven't applied it in at least 4 months. Last night, I fired up a locomotive and it ran without any hesitation.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Marlon,
Thanks for the Reply. Dust is always an issue. Its in the house. But its not like its a sterile environment. Do you think I could dust it off with a terry cloth every once in a while to help mitigate any build up? Wiping off the dust may also remove the ATF.
The track is so oxidized that I can not run the loco at all. It will power up, move about an inch, then cut out. I cleaned and gleamed about six feet. Tested again, the loco worked perfectly... until I hit uncleaned track. It then completely turned off again. I am surprised to see how much its affects performance. Back to cleaning.
What type of rail are you cleaning? If it is nickle silver, it should clean up and do well for you. Brass may need a little more work, some folks still use it, others swear at it. If it is steel track, you may be taking more time getting it going than it is worth and I understand it does not stay rust free very long.
Have fun,
Richard
Mark,
I like that you're using synthetic ATF. There was a lengthy good article on track cleaning a few months ago in MRR mag. They concluded that ATF was the best for maintenance. I have heard that alcohol is very good for cleaning and should keep you from having to use the sandpaper.
BTW, I have used Goo Gone for cleaning with good results.
Since the layout it used I am not certain if its steel or nickle silver. I think its nickle silver. It looks like walthers flex track. For sure its not brass. Is their a way to figure out if its steel VS. nickle silver?
Richard,
Do you recall what issue of MRR breached the issue of ATF? I dont recall seeing it.
Mark I like your thoughts as they are also my views... except for the ATF. I cleaned my track 2 years ago with the MS and followed that with an application of No Ox. My layout shared the garage with a daily driver car all that time until a couple of weeks ago. My train time varied from several hours a day to weeks on end without spinning a wheel. During that time I never cleaned my track other than the initial cleaning. I did vacuum a couple of time for dust control and I am considering an Atlas Vacuum car to keep the dust out.
Because of the make up of rail there will always be a little black on the rail and that's just the nature of the beast. There is a difference, a big difference, between a little black on the rail and the proverbial gunk.
Here is a very good read for those considering No Ox by Gary60s http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?111157-Layout-Track-Cleaning-Methods/page5
Remember, Linn Wescott first printed the praises of No Ox for track use in the mid 1960's. Akthough rail has changed over time the use of it hasn't, it's just gotten a little more popular these days
Although I will stay with the MS and No Ox, if I had to change to something else it would be be either Flitz, Mothers mag polish or gleam FWIW
Fell free top contact me if you would like more.
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
Ratled,
I have read a number of your posts in regards to cleaning rails, and I have read the thread that you provided. As well as a couple of other that I found via google search. I also found the article on MRR about ATF. It claims that ATF is a refined form of MS. I was not aware of that. The article stated that an application of ATF was required once a week to maintain conductivity. And that in general it did result in better operation. After reading the article it may be something I would try, but I think I am going to look at using mineral spirits for the basic cleaning. Then follow with one of the other methods.
What concerns me about No ox, is the issue of goop that some claim, and also that it can destroy traction tires. Some of my locos have traction tires. I understand that the traction tires are susceptible to damage only within 48 hours of application. Is that correct? If so no big deal.
I have already gleamed about six feet of track. I didnt take that long. I also want to do six feet with mothers polish. To compare.
The issue that I have is that the layout has a large area of track that is hidden by tunnels. Its going to be hard getting into those areas to clean. Currently, I have easy access to the track because the bench is not against the wall. Once I move the bench in place, its going to be hard to get to the track to clean. I want to look at a possible long term solution.
I just want to make sure I understand. You stated that you didnt clean the track except for the initial cleaning and applciation of no ox, and in two years you have not re-applied the product or cleaned again? Is this correct?
Thanks again,
Hey Mark -
I also found the article on MRR about ATF. It claims that ATF is a refined form of MS. I was not aware of that. I'm not familiar with the article so I can not comment on it. ATF is actually mineral oil not spirits. The distilling process changes it in many ways including allowing the spirits to dry where ATF is prone not to. ATF has a lot of additional chemicals and additives to it so it can do it's intended purpose that changes it further. Also, unless you use 100% synthetic you are adding to guncking process as ATF will turn to sludge at some point.
The article stated that an application of ATF was required once a week to maintain conductivity. And that in general it did result in better operation. Using it once a week defeats the purpose of the No Ox or gleam methods. It probably did help in some ways as there is an oily residue left behind that is conductive.
What concerns me about No ox, is the issue of goop that some claim, and also that it can destroy traction tires. Some of my locos have traction tires. I understand that the traction tires are susceptible to damage only within 48 hours of application. Is that correct? I don't have traction tires so I don't know about this being an issue. I haven't heard of this before but then I wouldn't have paid too much attention either if I had. On the other hand, if it was such a big deal, something would have stuck with me on it.
I have already gleamed about six feet of track. I didnt take that long. I also want to do six feet with mothers polish. To compare. Gleam, Flitz and Mothers all report having the similar positive outcomes as No Ox as I understand it. Each, including No Ox, has it's own pros & cons. Gleaming takes a little longer than No Ox. If it took you more than a minute to do the 6' of gleam then you took longer than No Ox would have. Not a deal breaker on most layouts but for those with larger layouts this is something to consider.
The issue that I have is that the layout has a large area of track that is hidden by tunnels. This is the main reason I looked for a solution when I found the original article. As a side note, I wound up daylighting as much of the hidden track as possible. In my case that was a very good move.
Its going to be hard getting into those areas to clean. Currently, I have easy access to the track because the bench is not against the wall. Once I move the bench in place, its going to be hard to get to the track to clean. I want to look at a possible long term solution. See below
I just want to make sure I understand. You stated that you didnt clean the track except for the initial cleaning and application of no ox, and in two years you have not re-applied the product or cleaned again? Is this correct? Other than an occasional vacuum for dust and the occasional spiderweb in the corner this is exactly correct. Walk out, pick up a throttle and run trains. Not wipe it down weekly, no MOW cars with little tankers and pads, no pushing through the spots I'll get next time just pick up a throttle and go. No additional applications of No Ox or use of MS. 2 years running. The only reason I say just 2 years is it was 2 years ago I applied it. I can't say I even ever heard of someone having to do it again since they did it... really
I do run metal wheels on my rolling stock and clean my loco wheels now and again with a paper towel and MS but that is it. Once or twice a year on the locos and it's only a light cleaning as it's just a little dirty.... no build up of any kind. Nothing that affects performace, sound or lights in anyway.
I had thought about getting one of those little Atlas vacuum cars to make things easier for the occasional run as garage life with a car in it can make things tough in the dust department. I asked a guy I know of about how his is working after having it for some time. He said he really does it use it that much but it worked fine when he did use it. He said the reason he doesn't use it is he bought a little pillow of No Ox off that auction site and there is no reason to run the car anymore.
I have heard of several complaints of the No Ox process but those to me where unfounded - if a dab will do you I'll slap it on, or the guy at Piggly Wiggly said it was just like No Ox. I have heard of only one genuine complaint on No Ox and it was from one the guys I most respect in MRR'ing. He said it caused his track to be too slick and his locos lost traction on his grades. I would suspect that this would have been issue for Flitz, Mothers or gleam also.
I hope this helps.
Forget the sand paper.
If the rails are nickel silver, just use denatured alcohol on a clean white cotton cloth to rub down the rails, followed by a good rub with a Bright Boy eraser.
Rich
Alton Junction
Green Tested again, the loco worked perfectly... until I hit uncleaned track. It then completely turned off again. I am surprised to see how much its affects performance. Back to cleaning.
Tested again, the loco worked perfectly... until I hit uncleaned track. It then completely turned off again. I am surprised to see how much its affects performance. Back to cleaning.
Dirty track will stop a loco dead every time. You may be surprised, but you shouldn't be.
Green Since the layout it used I am not certain if its steel or nickle silver. I think its nickle silver. It looks like walthers flex track. For sure its not brass. Is their a way to figure out if its steel VS. nickle silver? Richard, Do you recall what issue of MRR breached the issue of ATF? I dont recall seeing it.
The article is in May 2011. BTW, I don't think synthetic ATF is based on MS. After reading this article you will see that the ability of ATF to hold particulates in suspension and conduct electricity is key.
You can tell it's steel if it's greyish in color, even after polishing a little whereas nickel silver is brighter. If you're unsure after polishing, then perhaps get a section of known nickel silver and compare side by side. It will be obvious.
Leave a cleaned piece of the track outside for a few days. If it doesn't rust, you'll know which it is.
Its nickle silver for sure.
What concerns me about No ox, is the issue of goop that some claim, and also that it can destroy traction tires. Some of my locos have traction tires.
After reading your comment I did a little looking around. I did find this part of the mentioned thread.
No-ox will cause your traction tires to expand and roll off the wheels. I new this and my one steamer with traction tires was left off the layout until I was confident the excess No-ox was gone. I had no issues with it. The freemoN club I am a member of uses it to great success, except when someone fails to remove the excess causing problems for the traction tire equipped locos. The other contact wheels on these locos would have to be treated individually. I simply turn mine upside down on some foam add power and use a scrap T-shirt to apply a minute amount of no-ox. Allow it to sit for a day and go back and wipe off with a clean T-shirt scrap.The purpose of running the locos before wiping the rails is to treat those wheels, and this will also spread the no-ox a little to. This would mean if you have an untreated section with time, before wiping the excess off, the no-ox would end up effecting the area to. I ran mine from where they sat including some that were part of complete trains and some individually made up into consists and allowed to run. Remember if you can see any globs of no-ox you are using to much. There should not be any excess collecting down the sides of the rails. One jar or tube should last you and 50 of your buddies a lifetime, even if you have monster layouts.
I'm guessing the N scalers still use a lot of the traction tires.