After doing some web research, including searches of this forum, and making somephone calls, I am trying to decide between one of two methods to drop from the mainline to groundlevel sidings. I am using HO scale WS foam for the mainline roadbed.
Option 1 is to use 16" wooden shims from Home Depot. They are 1 1/4" wide and drop from 1/4" to, effectively, 0" for a slope of 1.56%. A 12" length starts at the 3/16" height of the roadbed. Cost is under 5$ for more than enough than I need.
Option 2 is to use WS 2% incline starters, just the starters and not the risers. They are 1 1/2" wide and 24" long, but I would only need about the first 9+" of each starter. They come 8 to a package and I would need 2 packages at a cost of about 12$.
I think the incline starters would be easier to work with, and the cost differential may argue in favor of them. But the wooden shims are a gentler grade. Anyone have an opinon on which option sounds better?
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Hmm-- I like the idea of using the shims. Thanks for the idea too, that would have never occurred to me, and it's such a cheap and easy thing too. I've thought about the WS inclines, and while I'm sure they're nice and all, I've always been a little put off by the 2% incline. It would be nice if they had some 1% or 1.5%. The shims that you're talking about sound like they'd fit the bill pretty well.
The WS risers on the other hand, would likely be easier to work with if you're already using some aspect of foam construction. But it probably wouldn't be too hard either way.
John
What I did on my previous layout was use the N scale roadbed under sidings, and the HO under the main. To drop gently, I shimmed up the N scale with layers of shirt cardboard to make a gentle ramp with no abrupt vertical curve.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
We have not used the WS risers, but have used all the prior mentioned methods. We like the idea of the N scale roadbed for sidings and have found card stock to work OK. But the shims when trimmed properly can be more robust. We even use a belt sander and reprofile the shims to 3/16" vs 1/4" from effectively zero, which is a lot lower rise. But right under the turnouts we have started using 3/16" balsa wood and the belt sander and files to reprofile. That way when we ballast it looks prototypical. Getting the Nscale roadbed to match the HOscale roadbed through a turnout is sometimes a bit of work to look correct. BTW, we start the grade descent at least a few C size truck lengths(also takes care of rigid frame steamers) past the frog to avoid derails.
Richard
I have seen one professional modeler use nothing but ballast for the incline span down to the siding level. After adding the matte medium, the track is as stable as the rest of the trackage. I have not used this method myself, but it looked very good when finished. This way, you also get to set the gradient you want.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
There is such a siding in town at the Ethanol Plant. When the plant was built they had a railroad contractor come in to make their sidings. Yes they are lower than the mane lion and the ballast is all different. But consider the tie in to the main line. The switch and about 50' beyond it are BNSF tracks built to BMSF specs, only beyond that point does the track drift down to its new level. A car length beyond the switch is where the transition needs to happen and not before. There is a derail at that point.
Red Trail locomotives have just enough room to switch tracks between the last Red Trail Switch and the BNSF derail. They cannot move cars at this end of the property, nor can they run the locomotive around a standing consist by using the BNSF tracks. To solve this they have a locomotive at each end of their property. The have three tracks and a total of about four miles, though I have heard that they added a coal spur since the original construction. I have not gone onto the property to make an inspection.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Train Modeler . BTW, we start the grade descent at least a few C size truck lengths(also takes care of rigid frame steamers) past the frog to avoid derails.
. BTW, we start the grade descent at least a few C size truck lengths(also takes care of rigid frame steamers) past the frog to avoid derails.
What is C size?
I use the shims on my layout. Haven't had any problems yet. Haven't started ballasting yet, so may run into something, but not anticipating it.
bearman Train Modeler: . BTW, we start the grade descent at least a few C size truck lengths(also takes care of rigid frame steamers) past the frog to avoid derails. What is C size?
Train Modeler: . BTW, we start the grade descent at least a few C size truck lengths(also takes care of rigid frame steamers) past the frog to avoid derails.
C size or C trucks are 3 axle trucks found on larger diesel locos and some heavy duty railcars, it(the overall length of 3 to 4 trucks) can be less but close to a car length--really depends on the size of your cars. The idea is to get some distance between the frog and before the beginning of your descent to avoid derailing. You definitely have to avoid going down with one part of the truck descending and one part still in the frog--it won't be a good thing. The best way, is to start your descent after a length equal to your longest piece of equipment--but sometimes in the real world we don't get to build layouts as big as we would like. I've started a grade change with as little as one C size truck length and been mostly OK with a few derails every now and then.
I am going to be running 4 axle locomotives and 40 ft cars. I think I am going to be ok except for one location which I will reevaluate.
Here is how I do it. I don't know if you are on foam or not. I have used the same method once on plywood using a mallet and chisel. ( The engine survived to run again) It was easy to do and worked out well.
A different spot.
First of all I don't sand or grind the cork down. I lower it into the foam by cutting a trench in the foam to put the cork in.
I first lay the cork down and draw an outline with a sharpie. Next I score with an x-acto knife to the approximate depth I need to go down. From 0 to 5mm (the height of the cork). I then go at it with a small rasp. It takes a very little amount of work with the rasp. A light hand is all that is needed.
The invisible man does some fine tuning.
Stick the cork down with Latex Caulk after test fitting and check for level. The caulk acts as a leveler for any imperfections that may have been made in the foam or wood.
As I had no Moosehead Beer at the time, bricks fill in to weigh down the freshly caulked cork for two hours.
Slop some paint on, and the track is in for a rough test fitting.
The cork is level with the foam where the track turns off so no worries there.
I did one of these using an 18" cedar shake to do the same job, it's okay but I found this a better way to do it. Grinding down foam is way easier than grinding down cork.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I am using pinkfoam for the sub roadbed. Thanks for the step by step, Batman. Moosehead is an excellent choice but I prefer Amstel.
I've done what you are referring to and it was very simple whether using WS foam or cork.
Any of the above are good suggestions.
First of all the span from the main line to the siding / spur level is relatively short. When I laid the track (flex 100) it was stiff enough by itself to support the trains. When I ballasted I just stuffed ballast under the track and glued it down.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
I've used the framing shims without incident. However, the one case where they would not work is one where you have to do a lot of curving. I've planed cork roadbed in that case, but WS incline starters would be less messy and easier.
I used to be clueless, but i've turned that around 360 degrees.
Here are two pictures showing two different transisitions from the HO foam road be to the layout top.
I've had no operating problems and ballasting was simple.
Try it and you will like it.
BOB
California Roadbed Co. makes milled Homasote shims, both straight and curvable with a 1.5% incline. Check www.calroadbed.com.
Dante
Wow, Batman! This is certainly a SOLID looking structure!
Unusual window treatment, too.
leighant Wow, Batman! This is certainly a SOLID looking structure! Unusual window treatment, too.
It also doubles as Pike Prison. It is currently not occupied as I have not found time to paint the stripes on all those little soon to be prisoners.
rrinker What I did on my previous layout was use the N scale roadbed under sidings, and the HO under the main. To drop gently, I shimmed up the N scale with layers of shirt cardboard to make a gentle ramp with no abrupt vertical curve. --Randy
I am doing essentially the same thing as Randy does - - using N scale WS track bed sheets for the yards and sidings.
The wood shims are too short to be used effectively. The drop would be too severe.
Rich
Alton Junction
I've used various methods for siding/spur inclines. The wood door shims work well provided you remain mindful of vertical curves on either end. I've also used the Homabed shims, but my samples were of inconsistent shapes so I ended up having to modify them considerably. Unless they have improved I wouldn't buy them again.
What I've done lately is to use HO cork for main tracks and N scale cork for secondary tracks. I create the transition between the two with a belt sander. The same procedure will work with Homabed. I hate the WS foam roadbed myself, but if you want to use it for the majority of the layout, you could still use something more rigid like cork or Homabed in the vertical transition areas and sand it to provide smooth ramps where needed.
Rob Spangler
I use cork roadbed, so for me, it was easy to sand it down to base level with a belt sander. I measured the longest piece of equipment, and made a beginning transition mark. That's where I started sanding.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
From raised roadbed to foam, i simply bevel some modeling fiber then add track, and secure with t-250 staples, ballast while wet, then remove staples when dry.
model in O. the Western NY and Ontario Railroad
Also and added note on the use of "wood" shims/ cedar shingles. Those precut white cedars are the dimension of white cedar shingles (16" long and 5/16" thick.
Red cedar R&R shingles are 18" long and quite closer to 3/8" thick. The advantage of the longer and thicker shingle is that transitions of the "upeasing" and "overeasing can be made by sanding the shingle to the desired curve. The extra width of the "full" shingle itself will allow for cutting the width to fit any slight curvature as well. The effective grade using a transition shingle will actually end up more to about .5 grade. The slight curving upwards and the sanding of the overeasing will effectivly shorten the "flat" rise to about 12-14". As mentioned use care as to the distance after the turnout before attemting the drop and also let flatten out before the first turnout of the yard. If yard space and length are a factor this "dropping" down to yard tracks may shorten the effective length of the yard. The 1/4" lowered transition can use as much as 24-30' before the first yard turnout. Much shorter and abrupt elevation changes can play havoc w/ finiky ridged chassis steam or long 6 axle equipment.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org