First, sorry for the many photos in this history of my layout and expansion. Yet, I know that often the most useful info in a thread is in the photos. Perhaps I can help someone thinking like me.
FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO I BOUGHT A PRESIDENT'S CHOICE IHC 2-10-2 STEAMER FROM THE SUPER MARKET (CANADIAN CONTENT POPS UP IN THIS THREAD FROM TIME TO TIME). I BUILT A SMALL LAYOUT DESIGNED TO SLIDE UNDER MY DAUGHTER'S BED, WITH THE WIRING SEALED UP IN CHANNELS.
WIRES TAPED BEFORE BOTTOM BOARD SCREWED ON THIS FIRST LAYOUT
THEN I MOVED TO A LARGER TOWNHOUSE AND EXPANDED THE LAYOUT TO MODULAR 5X15....STILL ON THE GROUND
ELEVEN MONTHS AGO I MOVED INTO A HOUSE. I COULD EITHER PUT THE LAYOUT IN THE FAMILY ROOM AND USE UP THE ENTIRE SPACE, OR USE THE CRAWL SPACE FOR AN EXPANDED LAYOUT
FIRST JOB WAS TO DETERMINE IF DUST AND HUMIDITY WOULD BE A PROBLEM. FOR A MONTH I MONITORED BOTH. NEITHER WAS A PROBLEM. IN FACT, IT IS THE MOST DUST FREE SPACE IN THE HOUSE. BUT I SPENT ONE MONTH SWEEPING AND WASHING DOWN THE ENTIRE CRAWL SPACE TO GET RID OF DIRT/DUST LEFT BY CONTRACTORS
THE FLOOR IS PAINTED CONCRETE, WITH UNDERLAY OF PLASTIC. I USED 8 OR 9 CANS OF EXPANDING FOAM JUST TO MAKE SURE THE PLASTIC WAS SEALED AROUND ALL THE PERIMETER. SUMMER HUMIDITY ROSE, SO I PUT IN A DEHUMIDIFIER...A NEAT LITTLE UNIT FROM SEARS THAT HAS AN AUTOMATIC PUMP WHICH I ROUTED TO EMPTY INTO A SINK IN THE GARAGE.
NEXT TASKS...MOVE THE HOT WATER TANK TO THE GARAGE FROM OFF THE AREA OF THE TRAP DOOR TO THE CRAWL SPACE. EXPAND TRAP DOOR BY THREE TIMES ALLOWING MATERIALS 3' X 8' TO FIT DOWN.
CALL IN ELECTRICIAL TO ADD A LIGHT CIRCUIT OFF THE PANEL (LOTS OF CAPACITY LEFT, LUCKILY) AND VERIFY THAT I CAN ADD ANOTHER 1000 W TO THE HEATING CIRCUIT ALREADY DOWN THERE
THIS GFI ACTS AS A CONVENIENT KILL SWITCH TO SHUT ALL POWER DOWN TO THE CRAWL SPACE
BUILT TO CODE, THE CRAWL SPACE DID NOT HAVE ANY VENTILATION BECAUSE PERIMETER COVERED WITH HIGH R VALUE INSULATION BATTS AND POLY. HOWEVER, I WANTED FRESH AIR CAPABILITY SO I INSERTED TWO MOTORIZED VENTS/DAMPERS WHICH I COULD CONTROL FROM LAYOUT THROTTLE AREA. VERY HANDY, BUT DARNED EXPENSIVE!
ADDED TWO SIMPLE CASE FANS MOVING 100CFM IN AND OUT. SEEMS TO WORK VERY WELL. NOISY, BUT NEED ONLY RUN THEM 10 MIN. OR SO TO FEEL FRESH AIR FILLING THE CRAWL SPACE. THEN SHUT DOWN WHILE RUNNING TRAINS, OR JUST LEAVE THE DAMPERS OPEN OR CLOSED........AND FOUND THREE CHEAP (UNDER $30) CEILING FANS TO HELP MOVE AIR AROUND THE LARGE, LOW SPACE AND OUT FROM UNDER BENCHWORK ETC.
COLLECT AND SEASON BUILDING MATERIALS...THIS IS NOW JULY...THREE MONTHS IN. USED OVER 4 DOZEN 2 X 4s, EIGHT OR SO SHEETS OF 1/2" AND 1/4" PLYWOOD, FIFTEEN 2 X 8 SHEETS OF EXTRUDED 2" HIGH DENSITY FOAM BOARD. 2 X 4s ARE OVERKILL FOR BENCHWORK, BUT TIED IN NICELY WITH STUD WALLS IN CRAWL SPACE FOR INSTALLATION, AND WERE MUCH THE STRAIGHTER PIECES OF WOOD IN THE STORE.
OK, THE CRAWL SPACE HAS DRAWBACKS, LIKE EXPOSED PLUMBING. BUT BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS. IT WAS HERE OR NOWHERE. SO I CUT OUT THESE AND MOVED SOME PIPES AROUND OUT OF MY WAY...EASIER THAN I THOUGHT AND GAVE THEM A BETTER SLOPE THAN THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR.. .
EXPANSION IS TO LOOK LIKE THIS. AT THE TOP IS THE EXISTING 5X15 OVAL LAYOUT SITTING IN THE GARAGE AT THIS. POINT IN 6 PIECES. DOWN THE CENTER OF THIS IS THE EXISTING STUD WALL IN THE CRAWL SPACE. ANYTHING TO THE RIGHT OF THE CENTER LINE IS A TUNNEL RUN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LOW STUD WALL
PUT IN SOME ADDITIONAL STUDS FOR BACKDROP AND BENCHWORK SUPPORT. YOU CAN SEE I USED THE OLD CARPET FROM UPSTAIRS TO COVER THE ENTIRE CRAWLSPACE FLOOR. COSY.
FIRST BENCHWORK WAS FOR THE SOUTH YARD WALL.
THEN PUT UP THE MASONITE FOR THE BACKDROP . VISIBLE ALSO IS THE LIGHT FIXTURE PREFERRED. THESE SWING AWAY WHEN I HIT THEM WITH MY HEAD. USE OF ECO/FREAKO LOW WATTAGE BULBS MEANT ADDING 16 LIGHT FIXTURES IS OK
BACKDROP IS FROM BACKDROP WAREHOUSE. VERY NICE QUALITY HEAVY-DUTY PLASTICISED PAPER AND NICE 12' ROLLS. SETS OF TWO ROLLS ARE DISCOUNTED, BUT I LEFT ONE ROLL SHORT ON PURPOSE RATHER THAN SPEND A LOT FOR THE ODD LAST ROLL. I'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT WALL LATER. MUST HAVE HELP WITH THIS...... BROTHER-IN-LAW IN MY CASE.
BEST TECHNIQUE IS LOTS OF RUBBER CEMENT. ALLOWS SOME REMOVAL IF NECESSARY. HAD TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY DOWN INTO THE USA TO FIND HALF A DOZEN CANS OF THIS. NOT SOLD ANYWHERE IN CANADA I KNOW OF IN LARGE TINS
BACKDROP WAREHOUSE WEBSITE HAS LOTS OF TIPS FOR USING/INSTALLING THEIR PRODUCT.
BENCHWORK TO SUPPORT EXISTING 5X15 LAYOUT IS NEXT.
WANTED TO USE SOME SORT OF LEG LEVELERS BECAUSE THE CRAWLSPACE FLOOR DIPS HERE AND THERE. ADAPTED A FURNITURE CASTER INTO A THREADED METAL RECEIVER UNDER THE 2X4 LEGS.
5X15 LAYOUT FIT WITH LAST MODULE NICELY ON OTHER SIDE OF CENTER WALL ....CAN BE A TUNNEL RUN. HAD TO MOVE ONE STUD. OTHERS FIT NICELY IN SLOTS CUT IN MODULE SURFACE.
LOTS OF SHIMMING WAS REQUIRED TO GET ALL OLD PANELS MATED AFTER PULLING THEM APART, MOVING, KICKING VIRTUALLY ALL TRACK ENDS OFF THE EDGES BY ACCIDENT
NOW RE-LAY TRACK OVER OLD LAYOUT BOUNDARIES AND CAULK DOWN
CONTINUE WITH OTHER BENCHWORK...HERE THE TWO TABLES FOR TUNNEL RUN ON FAR SIDE OF CENTER WALL
BECAUSE OF NARROW CRAWL SPACE HATCH I COULD USE ONLY 2-3 FOOT WIDE SECTIONS OF PLYWOOD ON DECK. HENCE LOTS OF SUPPORTS UNDERNEATH FOR SCREWING DOWN MARGINS. I COULD PARK A CAR ON THE BENCHWORK, I THINK. BUT HAD TO BE.
ADD FOAM EVERYWHERE....WANTED TO MINIMIZE ANY PROBLEMS OF HUMIDITY MOVEMENT UNDER THE TRACK. HUMIDITY SEEMS NO PROBLEM THOUGH. PROBABLY COULD HAVE BUILT ON STRAGHT PLYWOOD. SHEEN IS FROM LEVELIING LAYER OF TRANSPARENT CAULK TO EVEN UP MARGINS OF FOAMBOARD.
OLD LAYOUT IS JOINED TO EXPANSION VIA 60 DEGREE CROSSING UNDER OLD TRUSS BRIDGE. TRACK IN AND TRACK OUT HAVE SWITCHES WIRED IN PAIRS AND CONTROLLED FROM BOTH THE CONTROL AREA NEAR THE OLD LAYOUT AND THE NEW CONTROL AREA.
TRACK INTO OLD LAYOUT HAD TO BE VIA DUCKUNDER SO I COULD REACH ALL AREAS OF OLD LAYOUT.
USED L BAR SET IN SLOTTED BRACKET FOR ADJUSTMENT IF NEEDED.
ADDED 1" FOAM
TEST TRACK
THEN WANTED SOMETHING MORE, SO ADDED WEATHERED ATLAS WARREN TRUSS BRIDGE WITH ATLAS THROUGH PLATE GIRDER APPROACHES. WILL HAVE TO PAINT OVER FOAM LATER.
SEEMS TO WORK
DUCK UNDER ALSO AT SOUTH END. THIS ONE IS S-CURVE AND ADDED SOME SHORTENED TRESTLE BENTS TO GIVE NEW LOOK...MAYBE CROSSING DRY CREEK BED?
CONTINUE LAYOUT OF ROADBED THEN MAINLINE TRACK AND NORTH AND SOUTH YARDS
LAYING OUT NORTH YARD. UNSEEN AREA TO LEFT WILL BE FOR DCC TURNTABLE ON ORDER... DELAYED UNTIL SPRING BECAUSE WALTHERS HAS ISSUE WITH WIRING FROM MAKER. OH WELL, LOTS TO DO IN THE MEANTIME
LAYING OUT TEST TO SEE IF TRACK CURVES NICELY BETWEEN 16-INCH CENTERED STUDS.
IT WORKS. ALL CURVES IN NEW SECTION ARE 30" OR LARGER RADIUS....MAKING REALISTIC LOOKING TUNNEL OPENINGS IN THIS PANORAMA IS GOING TO TAKE SOME CREATIVE THINKING THOUGH.
IT WAS CONVENIENT TO HANG BENCHWORK TO EXISTING STUDS OR FROM BRACKETS...BUT BRACKETS WERE EXPENSIVE....$16 EACH. I COULD HAVE DONE MORE CARPENTRY BUT WANTED TO COMPLETE THIS BEFORE XMAS. THIS SHOT TAKEN IN SEPTEMBER
NOW ON TO WIRING 33 ATLAS SNAP SWITCH MOTORS FOR 33 #6 CUSTOM LINE SWITCHES AND THREE TORTOISES FOR 3 LARGE CURVED SHINOHARA TURNOUTS. WOULD HAVE LIKED TO USE ALL SHINOHARA AND TORTOISES BUT WOULD HAVE PUSHED THE COST UP BY $2000.
I USED A VARIETY OF CONNECTION TYPES...3M SUITCASE, BAR, ETC. BUT MY PREFERRENCE ARE THE WHITLE PLASTIC 12-PLACE MINI TERMINAL STRIPS SHOWN. I CUT THEM DOWN AS NEEDED
LEARNED FROM OLD TIMERS ON THIS FORUM THAT THE CIRCUITRON SNAPPER IS A GOOD WAY TO PROTECT SNAP SWITCHES OPERATION.
WIRED IN MY SOUND SYSTEM BUILT TWO YEARS AGO. USES 6 DECODER IN STATIONARY FASHION PLAYED THROUGH TWO AMPS AND EQUALIZER TO SPEAKERS AND SUBWOOFERS.
HERE IS EARLIER PICTURE OF SOUND BOX WIRING. I LEARNED LOTS ON THIS PROJECT
SUBWOOFERS AND SPEAKERS ARE PLAYED FOR LOCOS WITHOUT SOUND DECODERS. I HAVE 118 OR SO LOCOS. ABOUT A THIRD HAVE SOUND DECODERS.
COMPLETED NEW CONTROL AREA IT IS NOW BOXING DAY. I LIKE THE RADIO-INFRA RED HANDS FREE THROTTLE FROM DIGITRAX
CONTROL AREA OF OLD LAYOUT. FOUR SWITCHES ARE CONTROLLED FROM BOTH AREAS
PAINTED OVER THE FOAMBOARD WITH TEXTURED SANDSTONE PAINT I USED ON OLD LAYOUT. GIVES A FAIRLY GOOD-LOOKING SANDSTONE BASE TO MATCH SEMI ARID LOCATION I WAS SHOOTING FOR.....BUT NO FINISHING NEEDED ON COMPLETED SURFACE OF LAYOUT IN "TUNNEL ROOM"
OK TIME TO LAYOUT SOME STRUCTURES AND DO SOME TEST RUNNING. AT THIS POINT I PUT OUT SOME STRUCTURES IN TEMPORARY LOCATIONS JUST TO UNPACK THEM AND GET THEM OUT FROM UNDER FOOT WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN FOR 9 MONTHS
I HAD MOST ENJOYMENT ON STRUCTURES WHEN BUILDING AND DECORATING THE DOWNTOWN AND FIGURING OUT AWNINGS AND INTERIORS ETC. I DON'T LIKE ALL THE CIRCULAR TRACK I PUT IN PLACE ON MY VERY FIRST LAYOUT ATTEMPT, AND CONSIDERED RIPPING A GOOD BIT OF THIS OUT BEFORE INSTALLING IT IN THE NEW HOUSE. I STILL MAY WHEN IT COMES TIME TO FINISH OFF MOTOR ROADWAYS AND ADD VEHICLES.
HAPPY TO SAY, PRETTY WELL SMOOTH SAILING. ONLY A FOUR OR FIVE SPOTS WHERE SOLDER POINTS NEED FILING, AND A COUPLE OF SPOTS ON BOARD MARGINS WHERE I RAISED THE TRACK BY UNDERCUTTING IT, AND RAISING IT BY TUCKING MORE CAULK UNDER
LOTS OF STORAGE SPACE UNDER BENCHWORK AND AROUND THE CORNER. THOUGH MOST LOCOS STILL KEPT IN MY OFFICE INSIDE THE HOUSE. HOPE TO HAVE AT LEAST HALF AT A TIME ON THE LAYOUT OR IN THE LAYOUT ROOM NOW.
ECLECTIC LOCOS COLLECTION AND BENDING THE REALITY OF THE LOCATION. ALTHOUGH I LOVE THE BNSF THROUGH ARIZONA LOCATION I HAVE CREATED WITH THE BACKDROP (WICKENBURG, ARIZONA) I WILL FUDGE IT AND PRETEND IT IS ALSO SOUTHERN, BRITISH COLUMBIA IF I WANT (IGNORING THE SAGUARO) AND RUN CN, CP, BCOL ETC. HERE IS ACTUAL WARREN TRUSS BRIDE OUTSIDE OF WICKENBURG, AZ. DOWNLOADED IT TO SEE HOW MUCH RUST OCCURS ON BRIDGES IN THE AREA
I ALSO PAY HOMAGE TO MY ROOTS. ONE CORNER IS ON THE MARGIN OF GRAIN GROWING COUNTRY AND THESE ELEVATORS REPRESENT THE THREE COMPANIES MY FATHER WORKED FOR AS A GRAIN BUYER AND WHERE I LEARNED TO LOVE TRAINS.....THERE WERE STILL STEAMERS DROPPING OFF BOX CARS FOR HIM TO LOAD WHEN I WAS YOUNG. (TEMPORARY PAPER LOGOS FOR NOW UNTIL I CAN GET DOWN TO THE CITY TO BUY SOME DRY TRANSFER LETTER SETS
Now on to more scenery and ballasting. Nothing is carved in stone yet. I may change thing up a bit in the final choice of scenery. I want to carve out a few gullies under some sections and add more through plate girder bridges.
Hope the photos help anyone with similar questions about maybe using a crawl space for a layout.
Be aware of safety concerns, though. There is only one exit. I keep fire extinguishers handy, smoke alarms, and I see a safety oxygen mask cheap at the hardware.
But all in all, I'm pleased with 9 months work.
Way to go Cisco. Another bit of great fun has been added to the Sea To Sky playground.
Your crawl space looks a lot like mine. I've just spent what seems like a life time down there moving lots of plumbing around for the wife's new and improved renovated bathroom. I still don't know what was wrong with the old one. While I was down there I kept pondering the idea of a layout down there as it is 3500 SQ.FT. It is also a very clean dust free environment. I can see me rolling around on my chair now.
I am guessing you don't have a Beer fridge down there, that's why you're using pop to weigh down your track.
Keep us posted with pics. I like watching the progress people are making, it is always faster than my own.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Great to see you making progress. However, as a residential home contractor I must say I am concerned anytime a homeowner makes something "better then the contractor." Horizontal waste lines are not to exceed a specified amount of pitch, this prevents prevents the water from flowing faster then toilet paper and other "packages" in the line. Eventually portions of toilet paper will start to build up and plug the line.
I have a friend that was dragged into court by a homeowner that contracted him to build the home. A year after closing the floor collapsed when he was filling the whirlpool tub. After investigation it was determined the homeowner finished the basement himself, never pulled a permit and apperantly had removed some lumber in the basement ceiling to make room for duct work. Who would have thought that something in the basement ceiling was holding up the floor above?
Nothing wrong with doing things yourself. Just take some time to find out if what you are doing is up to local building code or "better"
Good luck
Jon
Computer hickupped a few times loading, but it was well worth the wait. Looks like you have done a very nice job and have a nice layout to show for it;
Are (were) the soda cans emptied at the golden spike or "finished" party?
One thing I didn't see was how high the area was. You mentioned you bumped the lights, but my son ducks under things I have to reach up for.
Thanks for sharing.
Richard
I really enjoyed those pictures while I was at the fire house today. That is very well done! Looking forward to more updates!
JonMN Great to see you making progress. However, as a residential home contractor I must say I am concHorizontal waste lines are not to exceed a specified amount of pitch, this prevents prevents the water from flowing faster then toilet paper and other "packages" in the line. Eventually portions of toilet paper will start to build up and plug the line. Jon
Great to see you making progress. However, as a residential home contractor I must say I am concHorizontal waste lines are not to exceed a specified amount of pitch, this prevents prevents the water from flowing faster then toilet paper and other "packages" in the line. Eventually portions of toilet paper will start to build up and plug the line.
First, thanks for the comments fellows.
Jon, that is interesting. I never would have thought of that. Who knew!
I should qualify that some of the things I corrected were not really by the homebuilder, but by the first owner who was an "iffy" DIYer. He had put in a drain pipe running back into the basement from a sink in a carriage house we have at the back. And the pipe he laid along the floor actually had no slope, being higher at the end entering the foundation and the end entering the sanitary stack. That's the one I made better.
Ran lots of trains today. Finally I have a layout that takes my Pennsy heavy weight passenger coaches all around at max (but prototype) speed. That was the ultimate test for long cars today.
Looks great.
Is that space conditioned for summer and winter?
Springfield PA
Hamltnblue Looks great. Is that space conditioned for summer and winter?
This month is the end of the cycle of first seasons for me in this home. Right now, and all winter the crawl space has been the same temperature and humidity as the main living space. Winters are wet but not severe here on the Wet Coast so I only have to turn on the heaters a little every once in a while. You can see all the insulation used on the perimeter of the foundation walls here. The dehumidifier never goes on in the winter at all. And it does not become too dry. Good news, because I was concerned about layout decking expansion and contraction after using MDF (mistake) on the first layout.
Summer is when the humiity rises in the crawl space and the dehumidifier kicks in every day to maintain the space in the same condition as the main living area.
So far I am well pleased with the climate control methods.
Hello Cisco,
There is no doubt that you are a very dedicated model railroader and have the abilities and talents to go along with you determination. Your layout looks great in every respect.
My only question is the your definition of a craw space. In my part of the country a craw space is just that. You have to navigate it on your hands and knees if you're lucky, has a dirt floor and of course no improvements.
What you are describing is more like a basement
Which is it ?
Happy Railroading
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
superbe What you are describing is more like a basement Which is it ? Happy Railroading Bob
I think this pic sums it up really well:
Judging by the height of the chair, I would estimate the height to around 5´8" or 5´10", maybe less.
That must surely be regarded as a crawl space, at least for me as I´m 6´ 8"......
I think I would feel rather cramped there.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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The only other thing I'd suggest is a second method of exit in case of fire if it doesn't already have one. With all that plastic and electrical it always better to be on the safe side.
superbe Hello Cisco, My only question is the your definition of a craw space. What you are describing is more like a basement Which is it ? Happy Railroading Bob
My only question is the your definition of a craw space.
My space was basically in very good condition for this. Sealed floor with thick poly laid before the cement was poured...so I just had to be sure the margins were sealed again with expanding foam. There were two lights and one heater in there, but as I say, I had another light circuit installed by an electrician.
My big concerns were dust and humidity. Turns out this space was more ideal then the rest of the house in that regard. However, water pipes are visible and everywhere. But it was here or nowhere for the layout.
But as to height, it is definitely a crawl space. When I sit, my head is just under those engineered floor joists. The average height is just 50 inches. So I move about on all fours or scoot along on my chair or mechanics crawler. Maybe I'm used to it, but it seems great. My eye-level is very good and I don't have to stand all the time to be at that eye level.
So anyone with similar spaces, and ideas, I would encourage you. That is why I bothered to put up this long post....encouragement. That's what I get a lot from this forum.
Amazing! Congratulations! Not my cup of tea, but again: amazing and congratulations!
Dante
JonMN Great to see you making progress. However, as a residential home contractor I must say I am concerned anytime a homeowner makes something "better then the contractor." Horizontal waste lines are not to exceed a specified amount of pitch, this prevents prevents the water from flowing faster then toilet paper and other "packages" in the line. Eventually portions of toilet paper will start to build up and plug the line. I have a friend that was dragged into court by a homeowner that contracted him to build the home. A year after closing the floor collapsed when he was filling the whirlpool tub. After investigation it was determined the homeowner finished the basement himself, never pulled a permit and apperantly had removed some lumber in the basement ceiling to make room for duct work. Who would have thought that something in the basement ceiling was holding up the floor above? Nothing wrong with doing things yourself. Just take some time to find out if what you are doing is up to local building code or "better" Good luck Jon
An excellent story on the building of your layout. Congratulations.
As JonMN said re. the piping changes. Not only will to steep a slope allow the water to drain faster than it can carry the waste away but it can siphon the water out of the traps from your sinks, showers and tubs. At that point, there will be no water to block the sewer gasses from coming back into the house. This not only smells bad, but the fumes can possibly be explosive in the right concentrations.
Not mentioned, was the air vent that is at the back end of the house drains. This air vent should travel upward through the house and exits out through the roof. This will allow any of the aforementioned sewer gasses to safely escape. There should be no sags or dips where water can collect to block the flow of air.
As far as checking out your local Building Code BEFORE you do any work. Most Codes are based on the MINIMUM requirements. As Mike Holmes, (A well respected Contractor here in Canada. Check for TV shows, "Holmes on Homes" and his latest show, "Holmes Inspection") says, the minimum code requirements, at least around here are nowhere near strict enough but the politicians wont do anything about making them stricter.
Blue Flamer.
Quick question to you and other builders who use the foam in layout construction. If most of the layout is flat, why was a layer of foam applied over plywood? I understand if the foam will be carved or cut away for below level scenery, but your design looks to be mostly flat plywood tabletop style.
BTW - this layout looks really large - should be fun to build!
Greg
I would like to give Cisco this award for the longest single entry in this forums history.
Thats some determination, considering my very scary crawlspace, I'll never complain about my garage location again, look forward to seeing more.
Have fun with your trains
[Edit] Greg, I forgot to mention in the post below that I used the extruded foam solely to overcome any expansion/contraction problems with laying track on wood. I was unsure of the climate control of my new area (not a problem as it turns out) and wanted an inert surface. I had made a mistake in using MDF on the first two layouts. It really contracted (though luckily it did not destroy any track at all). However, if I did this again, I would probably lay the track right on the plywood (on a cork road bed). You may also have heard that foamboard is noisy. It is. The new section is noticeably more noisy than my old track on the MDF.
Thanks for the latest comments, fellows.
Yeah, sorry about the length of that post. I would have made it a link to a website showing my layout, if I knew enought to create such a thing.
Gee, I really got some of you concerned when I said I moved waste lines and improved them. As I mentioned in an earlier post following the main one, I did not do anything drastic, and actually raised a pipe that was lying along the floor in a U-shape (higher at both ends) so that it had a slope from its entry across to the sanitary stack. So, the replumbing is ok, thanks.
As to collapsing floors, I suppose there are some dimwits around who do stuff like that. To be sure, the previous owner seemed to be a bit like that. However, in my crawl space I added studs for extra support where the original contractor had cut away the bottoms to fit around plate bolts, and left my temporary pony wall in where I had expanded the trap door by three times its size, even though a contractor who looked at it said I could take it out. Generally, the space is improved, rather than being made a problem.
I am very familiar with Mike Holmes. In Canada he was voted the most trustworthy man in the nation (ahead of all politicians and scientists). Amazing what fixing up other contractors messes can do for your image.
And Vsmith, you have included a photo of my favourite model train hobbiest, Gomez. I just had my 25 year-old son over running trains with me. However, we decided not to run the NW and UP Y2s that we had out for a spin into each other head-on. We may be creepy, but we are not kooky!
That's a great story on coming up with more space to model trains. I think I would feel claustrophobic after a while, but I tend towards that anyway. You certainly have put a lot of thought and effort into this endeavor. Good for you and thanks for sharing.
I have three comments:
First, congratulations to Cisco Kid for a great layout and for taking the time to post so much detail. Thanks
Second, the fact that home builders are allowed to get away with building crawl spaces when it would have cost very little more (relative to the cost of the whole house, and assuming the water table will cooporate) to build a proper basement REALLY bugs me!
Third, I work in the home improvements industry and IMHO building codes should be respected. As I like to tell my customers - building codes are not high standards, they are minimum standards below which things start to fall down. Cisco Kid seems to understand the plumbing he dealt with but my advise is - if you aren't sure, don't do it on your own. I'm sure many of you could relate horror stories longer than the Kid's post! Even I have to admit to fudging a few things in my own house.
Take care all. Thanks for letting me spout!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
That is great.
Do you have a picture of the sandstone paint you said you used? I am looking around for something similar.