Hi all,
Have finally settled on a plan for the extra room/office that has met with approval from the CFO, Zoning Department, Building Commission, etc (aka SWMBO, aka my wife ). Bought and cut all of the materials over the weekend, though didn't have time to start building or grab some pics... so here's a late WPF entry.
Have only had time to put together one of the tables (this one is 36" square). Forgot to take into account the extra 1 - 1.25" thickness of the table frame and plywood surface, so it'll end up being about 55" high or so when all is said and done (still need foam on top... wasn't in the budget after getting all the wood). On the upside, this height puts the table top *far* out of reach of the cat (well, for now anyway... the closed door is the "permanent" solution)
the frame and legs are comprised of 1x3s screwed together to form a L-bracket. I've also added some scrap 1x3 to the bottoms of the feet to accept T-nuts and carriage bolts for levelling purposes (have to find a slightly more well-stocked store though -- the lowes lackey looked at me like I was insane for asking about a package that contained more than one per... )
Here's a "front" view from across the room, sort of from an operator's POV. This table will house the turntable and roundhouse.
This is the same view, from about where I'd be standing if i was operating (maybe a touch farther away. The table itself will come up to around the upper part of my chest once the foam is on top(comfy enough to work at)
And finally, a "just walked in the room" view. From here, the TT will be right in front of you with the RH slightly to the right. heading down toward the far will will be the rest of the engine facility (coal, water, etc) before taking a right turn through the yard which leads on toward the town (and finally staging cassettes).
Only annoying factor of this is that it partially covers the light switch (lowest part of the benchwork is approx 3" above the top of the cover plate -- this was OK'd by SWMBO before I started). I might rig up some form of mechanical remote switch that will allow someone to flip the light on/off from the side of the layout (in an apt, so moving the switch is a non-option)
edit -- fixing the pics
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
If the breaker box is in you apartment - get an X10 wall switch and swap it out. Save the existing one to put back when you moveout. You then also need a palm pad and rf transceiver. As a bonus get an 3 pin appliance module to two and plug your layout stuff into it. You will now be able to controlt he light and also turn the layout on and off withotu crawlign ont eh floor and plugging stuff in - from anywhere. This is what I did in my layout room, although not for the room lights, that switch is not blocked by my plan. I have a power strip at my workbench, that is plugged into the 3 pin appliance module (the 3 pin oens have ground - 3 prong conenctors, so the terminal strips plug right in). Under the layout I have another power stip that all my DCC stuff plugs into, it is also on an appliance module, on a different code. One button power up my workbench, the other powers up my layout, without stooping or anything.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
With such long legs, you may discover that there's a tendency to wobble. If so, diagonal braces will help.
To avoid kicking the legs on larger sections, bringing them in a bit from the extreme corners will help. As Linn Westcott said: "Build bridges, not tables."
A good benchwork reference:Basic Model Railroad Benchwork: The Complete Photo Guide
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Yep.
Unless you plan to bolt the bottom of those legs to the floor, I would certainly provide some kind of bracing to them.
The top looks like a good working height.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Dan, on the foam, I have not tried this with Lowe's, but a Home Depot if you find a damaged section of foam you can get 75% off. You may have to talk to the department manger, sometimes I do, and other time the people walking the floor will do it for you.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Looks great so far. I constructed my layout in the same fashion. 4 sections with an operating pit in the middle. It is turning out nicely. My table, with foam on top is is 53" I believe, if I remember correctly. perfect viewing height. Also, I am 6'3" tall, so it is a great change of pace from doing dishes at below waste level.
Now, the bracing. When you complete all of the sections and get them pieced together, you will gain some sheer strength. But, you will need some more. What I did was brace it up with 1x4's, excatly what I used for the bench work. The good news is, that my wife loved the idea! I sold it as shelving. Since my layout is so high up, I have room to store so much under it. The top of the shelf is for train related things, and below, I can put a shop vac, file cabinet, large stock pots, our canning things. Really...a life saver when dealing wioth not only space limitations, but your wife.
An 8ft piece of 1x4 is less then $2.00. the shelfs I built, priceless.
cudaken ...at Home Depot if you find a damaged section of foam you can get 75% off...
...at Home Depot if you find a damaged section of foam you can get 75% off...
So that's why the guy in the Southern Pacific t-shirt kept "accidentally" crashing his cart into the foam racks at HD the other day!
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
To those of you who've suggested the braces -- yes, there will be some added. At the moment, the braces have yet to be cut. Cutting the 52" legs left me with 44" pieces that still need cut down to make more of the 36" and 18" parts to make the table frames (all remaining tables will be 36" long x 18" deep), so I'll cut the bracing from what's left of that. worst case scenario will be to build a shelf at approximately floor level to keep everything square .edit -- NorthCoastRR I totally missed your comment about the shelves before writing this
Legs need to be at the corners to allow maximum storage area below the layout (condition of SWMBO). Otherwise I would have built everything with the "open" ends of the L towards the exterior, which would have set the legs back 3-4". However for the two sections I'll be making today/tomorrow, there will be "standard" legs in each corner at the extreme ends, and then a single leg at the other end, kind of like this:
L---------L|-----------LL-----------|L---------L
Randy, I like the idea of that other switch -- will consider that as I'm going along. the plan for electrical distribution is a power bar attached to the backside of one of the L brackets along the front of the layout, or possibly on one of the legs, so no need to crawl under the layout to reach a plug. There are also additional plugs in the room not near the layout (near the desks) so there's easy access to extra plugs for soldering, etc.
I built my benchwork in 2x4' sections, although I doubt I will ever take it apart in that small of pieces - I moved one 2x8 section with no problem, easily fit through doors and around corners. They're 2x4 because I was buying the precut wood at Lowes since I don;t have a vehicle that can handle 8' boards and initially I was cutting everything by hand - same miter box you have actually. Finally I got tired of sawign by hand and bought a small (10") power miter saw at Sears, pretty cheap, and while my place is two floors, meaning the downstairs neighbor has a whole other floor between my train room and them, it's barely audible even right below where I have it running. I wouldn;t cut wood at 2 int eh morning, but it's not so obscenely loud to annoy people during normal daytime hours.
Anyway, the first piece I built has legs at all 4 corners. After that, I've only put legs on the 'open' end as I expanded out in both directions. The next section I build will have 2 legs, then I will line it up witht he free end of the previous section, which also has legs, clamp it in place, and drill holes for bolts to connect the pieces together.
Before you brace, get some shims. When I did my around the garage layout after getting all the shelving up I broke out the level, shimed a few spots, added the bracing and checked the level again and then still had to shim a few spots here and there. It is no fun having the rolling stock go racing down hill on its own.
know what you mean Eric , I'm going to check Home Depot tomorrow to get T-nuts for the legs. I'm going to use carriage bolts as feet (whole lot cheaper than "levelling bolts" ).
Randy -- I considered going that route with the legs around the whole thing, but I wanted the 18" deep section to be free standing, and didn't like the prospect of spanning 6' with no legs in the centre. This is a precautionary measure in case SWMBO decides that the 3x3 section is too big for the room. Also just realized that the image I drew above is wrong... should look like this instead:
L---------L|---------L
where the 'L' represents where a leg will be, and the pipe '|' is the seam between the two table surfaces.
The benchwork along other two walls will be built though with shelf brackets rather than legs so as to clear my desk & (future) workbench. However, this is being built in stages so I'm likely not going to start the next wall until after the holidays...
aaaaand more pictures of today's progress to start, here are the two other table surfaces ready to have legs installed. The legs are right next to them, but I learned the hard way that just because two boxes of screws are on the 8x1 (qty 100) hangar at the store, they don't necessarily have 100 screws in them (the second box turned out to be 75 ).
Next we have an overall shot, with a mock-up of where a train would be after adding the 2" foam to teh surface. Not sure if I'll go with 2" or 1.5" -- seems 1.5 would be enough to allow me the luxury of only needing a square access hole for the bottom of the walthers TT rather than trying to cut a 12.75" circular hole in the plywood itself. completely depends on what is available, and how much they're asking...
also -- "see hon, storage space!"
a late WPF entry... haven't taken a pic of my K-11 recently. this is a bowser kit that I've finally gotten a picture of after painting it. still needs decals but i think it looks pretty good for a first attempt at painting a metal kit...
and finally, had an extra scrap of plywood, so I drilled 3/8" holes on 2" centres to make a forming board for when I get around to the wiring stage. will be able to make up the cables on this board, and then just install the completed/laced cabling under the layout. Will do the main soldering on here, rather that under the layout. just need to pick up some 3/8" dowels to make pegs out of...
Still undecided about whether feeders will be soldered directly to the bus, or if they'll terminate under the layout on terminal strips, and will just have 2-3 pair of breakouts soldered to the main cable.
I'm building this semi-modular, so rather than making a solid bus running under the layout (and routing wire/cable through holes drilled in the layout frame, the wiring will be contained on a per-module basis, with interconnects made via short (3-4" jumpers attached to the terminal strips on each module). Whie the main bus will generally travel down the centre of the modules, the jumps between modules will be done at the back (along the wall) so as to avoid potential mishaps when moving whatever is stored under the layout.
If you are nearly certain it will have to be taken apart, at each section joint cut the main bust and add some Anderson Power Pole connectors. We use these on the modualr layout for quick and easy setup and teardown. They come as singles that you can gang together as many as you need - some modules have 2x4 connectors, others have 2x6, some are 2x8, depending on how many wires need to go between modules. I didn't do this on my layout, I don;t anticipate takign it down any time soon, and if I do I can cut the wires and later connect them together.
Insteadof T nuts and bots, I found these 4 packs of felt bottom leg levelers at Home Depot. Lowes probably has somethign similar. They come 4 in a pack, there's a threaded plastic bushing you drill a 5/8" hole int he bottom of the leg, insert the bushing, the screw in the other part, which has a threaded steel bit with an end cap that is felt bottomed. Where I used to life the layout was in a room with hardwood floor and I didn;t want to scratch it, since I already had them I kept on using them even though the new train room has carpet. It spreads the weight out a bit and hopefully will leave less of an impression in the carpet than a carriage bolt head.
rrinker Where I used to life the layout was in a room with hardwood floor and I didn;t want to scratch it, since I already had them I kept on using them even though the new train room has carpet. It spreads the weight out a bit and hopefully will leave less of an impression in the carpet than a carriage bolt head. --Randy
Where I used to life the layout was in a room with hardwood floor and I didn;t want to scratch it, since I already had them I kept on using them even though the new train room has carpet. It spreads the weight out a bit and hopefully will leave less of an impression in the carpet than a carriage bolt head.
Suggest you try those leg "cups" with "teeth" on the bottom that raise the cup to the surface of carpet (or close to it) and spread the load farther.
Dante
... not so concerned about leaving a mark in the carpet . I have enough scrap bits of wood that I can set the bolt head in/on if I feel the weight is too concentrated.
NeO --
First of all, let me say that you have the most awesome layout room I have ever seen. How much do you want for that Manchester United flag?
Also, 8" triangles of 3/8" plywood between the legs and the surface will provide a lot of stiffening, will take up very little room, and shouldn't interfere with the modularity of your layout. You don't even need them on every corner, just brace opposite corners in opposite directions. As long as you're not planning to climb on your benchwork, that should be more than sufficient.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
haha, thanks CT. I think it was £15 (I bought it when I was in London last year)... but I'll cut you a deal and it'll only cost you $32.50 , plus $17.50 S&H. Half expected Jon to pipe up about it, seeing as he supports Sunderland FC.
I'm going to have to move the flag, since it's too low to clear the table tops...
I've got a lot of extra 1x3s that are about 4' long -- orignal plan called for 3-4 more 36" brackets (so 6-8 more pieces of lumber). Turns out that the 1x3 L brackets are more than strong enough to deal with 36" spans (I'm not climbing on this after all). I might add a "T" brace in the centre of the square table, though I've piled a lot of stuff up on it and there's no deflection of the plywood, so I'm probably good there. have also been on top of the 3x3 plywood to screw it to the table frame with little/no deflection.
Current plan is to build a shelf at the bottom of the 3x3 table out of these spares, and some MDF shelves (a la Randy's design for his DCC shelf). One of the 36x18 tables will also get a shelf, and the last one may get angle braces (it's in the corner, and will eventually have another table running along the back wall of the room.
Hi all!
yep -- it's time for another update! Last night I added the shelving to the 36x36table, and completed one of the two 18x36 tables, also complete with a shelf. When I picked up the shelving, I also grabbed a sheet of the "for projects" masonite (it's 2x4 feet). I probably paid more for that than if I had just bought a 4x8 sheet, but I don't have any way to transport sheets that big .
Up first is a picture of the shelves:
The shelves are actually a touch smaller than the underside of the tables (they only had 36x34, and 36x12 shelves) figure that's fine though -- the shelves are 3/4" thick and screwed to the braces around the perimeter to keep them in place. I *may* add a short "leg" in the middle for support if they need it, but for now they seem like they'll hold up to the job.
While the tables were pretty sturdy on their own, I added the extra insurance of some carriage bolts to keep everything tightly together:
Next, here's a shot looking down the length of the table:
And a "straight on" view:
This shot also shows where I marked for the NCE interface panel. It's about halfway down on that table, which allows me to walk to the far (door) end of the 36x36 table without much trouble (mostly the trouble is the cable still having a few folds in it from being packaged. ) if I find I need a longer cable, I've got a few hundred feet of network cable and the proper ends with which to make one (helps that NCE put a drawing in their manual)
Hi Dan,
Looks like you are making good progress and the bench work is solid.
Many of us use the space underneath for storage. In my case I have 2 drawer metal filing cabinets that I can move around as necessary.
IMO you may have a problem with shelving particualary this early in the game. There is a lot of work that goes on underneath the bench and the shelving is going to give you a fit when you start wiring. Even after your wiring is done there comes times when you need to work on it.
Maybe I have missed something or you have a way around it.
Happy Railroading,
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Looks liek it's right down on the floor - which means other than stuff being placed on it being in the way, it's not really going to interfere with working underneath. At least not on narrow benchwork like that.
wiring wont be too much of a mess -- I'm going to form cables off layout (on the plywood forming board, a picture of it is in the thread here somewhere). Here's the wiring method I'll be following.
Note that it's still in the "working through all my thoughts" stage, and will be revised a few times before I start doing anything. Also have to wait for the cable lacing to arrive, and buy the wire...
There's actually a lot of room under the layout, even with the shelves there -- the stuff on the shelves is only there because I needed room to get far enough away to take pictures.
If it comes down to it, four screws per shelf and they're out of the way.
* Yeah, I could get away with further runs between feeders, but I would rather *not* have to ADD feeders later. Better to have too many than not enough.
**Yes, lacing. I _LOATHE_ zip ties, and need something that won't break down over time (such as tape -- yeah, it holds very well now, but after time, the glues usually start to come apart leaving nothing to keep the wiring neat.
rrinker Looks liek it's right down on the floor - which means other than stuff being placed on it being in the way, it's not really going to interfere with working underneath. At least not on narrow benchwork like that. --Randy
yep, right on the floor. I was actually sitting on the 12"x36" shelf when I took the picture of the carriage bolts.
Yep! You guesses it! Time for more updates!
Went and picked up the foam for the table top yesterday, and got it attached (used cheap latex caulk).
Also stopped by the LHS to have them send in an order to walthers for the c70 track & c55 rail (mainline and yards/spurs, respectively), spikes, ties, etc that I'll need to start putting this layout to use. The c55 will probably cause trouble for the older steamers I have ... but that's why NWSL is in business . While I was there, I picked up (among other small bits -- lights, etc) a box o cork roadbed, and nabbed the last-on-the-shelf Walthers Modern Coaling tower. All I need now is a machine shop, ash pit, and sanding tower to have the facility complete. Then ballast, dirt, etc...
Here's a c100 (yay for finding old trainset rail) Atlas snap switch set up on a piece of the roadbed with ... well, the first car I pulled out of a box... to test view overall height.
The viewing angle's _just_ a bit lower in person, so I think it'll work out perfectly
and a mostly overall shot:
and finally, a few of the terminal blocks I'm building for the layout.
didn't think I was going to make them as large as I did at first, so I didn't end up buying enough hardware .
Yes, they're labelled for four (4) DC bus circuits, and two (2) DCC bus circuits, as well as the NCE control bus. For now, I just have the Power Cab, so the secondary DCC bus will be inactive. However, if I find that I need to split the mainline off, I can run the yard/engine facility from the secondary bus by simply adding a secondary tap (thru a circuit breaker) to the "DCC2 bus". I'll likely add more NCE UTP Panels as I make the layout bigger (and possibly a SB3), so having this already wired in will make expansion easier,
So I got the lacing tape today, and put together a short "proof of concept" cable, and built the main bus cable for the 36x36" table. Learned a few things as I was putting these together (and revised my wiring scheme).
Lessons learned:
Instead of the original plan of soldering taps to the main bus to feed the secondary terminal strips, the feeds will come off of one of the main terminal blocks.
and a few more pictures for those who're interested:
concept :
and a close-up:
and a closeup of the main cable I built tonight, ready to be installed (which will have to wait til tomorrow, because a certain unnamed genius grabbed the wrong box of cable holders)
800 views and 22 (23 now) replies...
either I'm doing something right, or you're all too busy laughing to type
also, that first picture looked a *lot* better last night -- another lesson learned --> don't take pictures when you're tired .
well, the week was busy... but I finally started making more progress on the layout
didn't get much on the layout proper done:
But I'm in the process of building the TT (walther's 90' kit) and getting that in. Once I get that wired in, things should start to pick up again.
here's a sort of overall shot of the first table:
you can see the main bus in the background, and some of the other panels. more to the foreground is the wiring for the TT. I'm using 2-pin molex connectors to tie the TT into the auto reverser (it doesn't have the split ring/rail like the built ups do). This will allow for easy disconnection/removal if I ever get myself the built up (or for when I add the motorizing kit).
and here's a more close-up shot of one of the terminal blocks & main bus cable: