Just getting into lionel for the grandsons. Bought a used set of 027 so we'll be dealing with the limits of the minimum radius etc. We are currently using an old 25 watt transformer that seems fine except it doesn't have a whistle or bell button etc so we're looking to upgrade to a better transformer. I'd like to eventually have two transformer so each grandson can run his own train on the layout without working off the same transformer. We set up on the carpet floor of a 24 by 15 room and are adding track etc when we can. I've seen a lot of CW-80 transformers on eBay but before buying several I'd appreciate input on them and/or as to what size transformers I should get. We do have a number of remote control switches and will want to power them and other accessories but I think we can do that off the accessory terminals of whatever we get. I'm looking at eventually running a decent passenger set of perhaps 2 double motored A units and a string of as many lighted passenger cars as possible. So, I'd appreciate input on transformers to suit these needs and the size of the layout the room can accommodate.
Secondly, I think the longest car length is 13.5 inches for 027 track and switches. I'd appreciate input on the maximum freight and passenger car length we should consider.
Appreicate the input, thanks!
You will get better and more accurate answers at the Classic Toy Trains forum on this web site. They know 3 rail O far better than I. The following is based on my personal experiences, including this year's under the tree layout.
If you are going to run on carpet, use either Fastrack or MTH Realtrax (I use the latter because I had the initial circle from a train set). The Fastrack will maintain electrical connections better over multiple disconnects and reconnects than the MTH, but either works. The built-in roadbed of these 2 track systems prevents a lot of carpet threads and gunk from getting into the bearings and gears of your trains. The Realtrax has O31 curves (15" radius) and the Fastrack uses O36 curves (18" radius). Both will run larger equipment than the O27.
That said, O27 track is dirt cheap in comparison. O34, O42, and O54 curves have been made in O27 style track. O34 and O42 switches have been made. The O34 was made by Marx and is pretty hard to find nowadays.
The most common hangup point for longer rolling stock on O27 track is the switch machine. Most RailKing and Industrial Rail (now by Atlas) rolling stock will go around O27 curves and through O27 switches, but there are no guarantees. They don't test for O27. Earlier RailKing was smaller proportions than later production, and so would have less issues. Lionel used to state which cars and locomotives will go around O27 curves before Fastrack became universal in their train sets. You might check some of the older catalogs from the 1990s and early part of this decade to get an idea of the radius required for various items if the information is not still available.
Transformers: the 1st generation CW-80s had problems. These were fixed in subsequent generations of CW-80, and it seems to be a reasonable transformer now. The question is which generation does an eBay CW-80 come from? MTH makes some decent train set transformers, too. I got into 3 rail O before the CW-80, so all my transformers are post-war Lionel and Marx. The post-war Lionel transformers with whistle controllers will blow the whistle or the horn, but not ring the bell. Lionel does make an add-on bell button, or you can make your own. The guys on the CTT forum are the experts.
The AA units with lots of passenger cars is going to take at least a 100 watt transformer. My 1090 transformers (90 watt input, about 75 max output) can easily handle a single engine and 4-5 lighted passenger cars - all that my 4x8 layout could hold. Be forewarned, I suspect you are going to have difficulties running long passenger trains on O27 curves. I usually ran the passenger trains on the O31 track.
For a track layout, 2 separate ovals works very well for kids. They can run in opposite directions and enjoy it even more. If the ovals cross each other at crossings, the kids will squeal with delight at near misses. And you will have the occasional wreck. Which brings me to the final point about curves. The trains stay on the track much better on O31 and O36 curves when run at kid speed.
just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W
Thanks for the input. The carpet we have is tight and short plus I have a bunch of the cheaper track already in various radius and condition. Actually I found some used track at a train show and when laid in a circle it turns out to be 034, didn't know there was such a thing. For now we'll probably just stick with that as the other types get expensive. Plus we can use the bigger radius for one of the circles and run the passenger stuff on that. I just wondered if there was some max standard for passenger cars to clear the 027 switches so we can run them into the "station" area from the bigger loop area.
Thanks on the transformer input too. I read a thread about the problems with the CW-80s and with your comment on what batch they are on eBay I'm a little leery of buy them there. But the price is about half. In reading other threads I see too that there definitely is a concern with the power a transformer can supply for a multi-motored and lighted passenger string of cars. We can limit the length of a train as to the track conditions but I just didn't want to buy a transformer that couldn't accommodate the the train length.
The boys are already enjoying what we have. They are still quite young and I'm hoping to faze out of Lionel into HO when they get a little older.
Thanks again for your thoughts! I'll also try the Classic Toy Trains form.
MJS
If you have O34 track, it's actually old Marx track, not Lionel. The tubular track should be interchangeable with Lionel O27 track, in fact in 'the old days' when only O27 or O31 was available, Lionel guys would get the O34 curves to make their curves a little less sharp.
BTW no reason to "phase out" of Lionel, there are plenty of 'grown up' three railers making excellent layouts nowadays. Lionel doesn't mean "undersized toys" anymore, in fact a big chunk of Lionel equipment is built to correct 1:48 scale.
Norm Charboneau's webpage.
That 034 track has 5 black metal ties in each section. The pins are not the lionel type. They're plain except they seem to have very fine spiral ridges to help them stay in place. It takes 8 to make a circle. I can't find any markings on them.
This all started in November when I took my son and the boys to a train show. I've always wanted an HOn3 layout and have some rolling stock. I just haven't had the time to get going. Now with the grandsons and the purchases we have made since then we are slowly getting into it. One reason we're using 027 is that's what the first patch that we purchased was. And there seems to be more of that for sale, people getting rid of it. We bought more than just starter sets. We were able to pick up a small layout with over a dozen 027 remote switches, a fair amount of track, a nice Chesapeake & Ohio 4-6-4 and a few freight cars. I also bought some HO. We'll see where this leads. Space is one reason I was thinking of going back to HO but Lionel is nice as it's more rugged. And the kids can handle it easier and I can still see it as my eyes aren't what they used to be.
We might even mix with 031. I have a friend who is selling a nice Hudson with all the bells and whistles, TMCC, and a string of Williams passenger cars. If I can get him to drop his asking price we might end up with that too.
Nice website Norm....
Thanks all,