i have a barn loft to build a layout in. my question is this, there is no heating or cooling system so i will be able to heat or cool when im present. i plan on laying about 200 ft of track. temps will vary from 20 below to 120 above fahr in a normal year. what will happen to the track with expansion and contraction or any thing else unforseen?
My clubs layout is in a 105 year old baggage car that gets heat when some one is there. It is 40 years old and still going good. Temp swings is no big deal if you plan for them. Humidity swings is the killer. Gap rails, Paint all bench work as you build, Use good quality lumber, Keep it as dry as possible. If you can seal the room up real good and run a humidifier it would be alright. My portable modules go through some real big temp and humidity swings all the time. I can take them out of my warm and dry house put them in the back of an unheated pickup with a top, Drive through snow and rain and carry them through a parking lot in the rain or snow, Set them up and run trains in an hour.
Good luck
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Howdy welcome aboard.
My layout space is a non-climate-controlled garage in the Dessicated Desert. My lowest lows aren't much below freezing, but I'll match your highs any August afternoon.
As Pete said, the big thing is humidity - or, in my case, lack thereof. Forest products don't like the combination of hot plus dry - it makes perfectly straight boards assume weird and (not so) wonderful shapes. My solution is to build benchwork with steel studs, which shrug off humidity changes. I also leave ample gaps at rail joints for expansion.
My suggestion is to make haste slowly. Get some track down so you can run trains, then watch how it reacts to climate change as you slowly fill in the rest of your plan.
You've picked up a challenge. Good luck
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a Southern Nevada garage)
On another forum I frequent, a fellow who sure sounded like he knew what he was talking about said he had done the math and that NS Code 100 rail in a solid length 100 feet long would lengthen only 1/4" with a rise of 30 degrees. You can easily accommodate that shift with a series of gaps here and there, none exceeding perhaps 1/16". Yet, the real utility, as suggested already, is in allowing those gaps to take up much more serious movement in the entire framing due to changes in the dimensions of any organic materials that might attract moisture...such as milled lumber arranged in squares. Funny, but most of us resort to just that sort of construction.
The wisdom currently, or general consensus, is that curved flextrack should be soldered to keep the curves as you intend them to be. The tangents are the places where you use only joiners to allow for the expansiond contraction. Curves solid using solder to keep your curves in radius, but most tangent track should have some gaps and sliding joiners. That means you will have to feed the rails on either side of those sliding non-soldered joiners to ensure good power transmission to the engines.
-Crandell
Edit (added) - Here is a website with a calculator. If you know the coefficient of expansion for NS, you can get the length change.
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpthermalexpansion/thermal_expansion_equation_linear_final_length.php
And here is the text of a thread from another popular forum. The author goes by the name of Pete Nolan.
"
Pete Nolan"
A fellow called "Hutch" responded thusly, confirming my claim that we're talking tiny fractions of an inch that sliding gaps can easily take up:
tomikawaTTMy suggestion is to make haste slowly. Get some track down so you can run trains, then watch how it reacts to climate change as you slowly fill in the rest of your plan.
Or, lay down your track during the hottest days of summer :)
Our 20 x 40 foot HO scale layout is in a building with no central heat or air conditioning. Temperatures range from below freezing to 120 degrees, and humidity ranges from 5 percent to 90 percent, depending on the time of year. Track expansion and contraction is not the problem, it is the expansion and contraction of the wood framework with changes in humidity and temperature.
We solved the problem by building the layout on hollow core doors covered with two layers of 1/2 inch thick Sound Board. Every other flex track joint is not soldered to allow for some expansion and contraction of the rail itself.
Prior to building the layout, we conducted an experiment. Two lengths of Atlas nickel silver flex track were placed outdoors in full sunlight in July, when the air temperature was over 100 degrees. The actual rail's temperature was measured at over 130 degrees (the highest the thermometer could read). The length of the two pieces put together was carefully measured, and they were then put into a freezer overnight. They were again measured when at a temperature of zero degrees. The rail had contracted only a few thousandths of an inch over a six foot length.
Wood expands and contracts more than that.
thanks guys, now i can move ahead without having a roller coaster. chalydra
Temp variations may or may not have a big effect on your layout but humidity definitely will as stated earlier. I will play hell on scenery and track work a like., but rather then digress and repeat the advice given what about your own comfort? Are you really going to want to work on your layout in sub zero temperatures or when it's 100 degrees plus up in a bar loft. Being a life time farm boy I know all too well how hot it used to get up in the hay lofts of our barns and we're not in a part of the country where we experience extreme weather changes. I have a hard enough time gluing very small pieces together under normal circumstances I couldn't even imagine trying to glue small pieces on in 10 or 20 degree temps.
I have a 30'x40' pole barn where I work on my hot rods and motorcycles. I added on another 40' long section to the back for a layout room. I have yet to pour the concrete floor so when the funds are available I intend to install radiant floor heat. The biggest mistake I made in the front shop. Heating the building is really no big deal and not very expensive. I have a 120,000 BTU gas fired forced hot air furnace I picked up on Craigs list for $300 and hung all the duct work myself. The key is the insulation. I had the company install the insulation as they were building the barn. They sandwiched foam insulation board between the wood frame and the corrugated sheet metal which covers the outside of the building. with a couple of commercial ceiling fans it keeps the place nice and toasty warm in the winter.
The first winter the building was up it had no heat so all I used was a space heater and it was enough to take the chill out. I got a deal this spring on 1" foam insulation form Lowes so I glued it to the existing foam board with construction adhesive. I just covered the walls in most places with 4'x8' sheets of peg board becasue it was cheap and on the lower ares 4'x8' sheets of T-111 playwood.
They key is insulating your loft, when properly insulated even with a small heater of some sort you'll have the advantage of natural convection (heat rises and the insulation will help keep it in.the area) I bet if you take the measurements down to your local home center and ask someone at the construction desk It won't cost you as much as you might think.
Excellent advice from Allegheny 2-6-6-6 concerning your own comfort. Pay more attention to that in your barn loft instead of worrying about the track.
Even with propane space heaters, because our clubhouse has concrete block walls and no insulation, it is so cold at this time of year that my fingers begin to get numb after being in the place for a short time, even if I'm wearing thermal underwear and sweats. Definitely not conducive to working on small parts or trying to lay track using latex caulk as an adhesive. Even operation becomes a chore when you're shivering (or sweating).
Think of it from the standpoint that if you're comfortable, your trains are comfortable. I was a farm boy from Illinois. A barn loft can be the most bone chilling or sweltering place you can find.