Hello All. This is my first post, although I've been reading and gleaning a great deal of good advice in here for a little while. I recently got back into model RR as I am now the dad and I want to share with my kids what I so enjoyed with my dad. My problem is that all of my "older" turnouts cause derailing. They are your garden variety Atlas 100's, but they are a good 20 years old. We're building an 8' x 10' HO layout, but at the rate it's going I am about to give up on having any turnouts.
So my question is: should I simply throw in the towel on these old turnouts and buy new ones, or am I doing something wrong? I was hoping to use them (12) and save a few bucks. I've only used 3 to date, but so far I'm 3 for 3 on the derailing problems. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
The problem might also be gauge on some of your wheel sets. Is it mostly certain cars that initiate the derailments? An NMRA standards gauge is a wonderful troubleshooting tool for checking track gauge and wheel spacing on the axles. Sometimes too, a problem elsewhere causes one wheel to derail, but nothing much happens until it reaches the turnout and gets pulled sideways. Do the trains derail running in both directions?
John
Thanks John!
No, they don't derail in both directions, only when making the turns. And you are right on in regard to it being only the cars. Primarily it is the coal tender on a Bachman 2-6-0 (front wheels of the rear truck) that I bought brand new just a week ago. The longer passenger cars derail when backing into a siding I just put down this weekend. I'll have to get that gauge you recommended, and fast.
Thank you again!
Are they full length 85' passenger cars? The turnouts are probably #4"s. A combination of long car coupled to short tender backing through a #4 turnout will cause problems. Does the tender derail if it goes through the turnout without any cars coupled to it? Are the turnouts layed flat and level? Check for kinks in the trackwork.
Mark -
Been there, done that and asked the same question a few weeks ago, but only in N scale. Since they are "older" turnouts, first make sure that you are actually getting a full throw on the turnouts. Over the years "stuff", even enough dust, can collect at the hinge or points and hinder movement. Some folks go as far as to sharpen the ends of the rail to get them as flush as possible. Also make sure that nothing has gotten stuck between the guide rails and real rails, check both depth and width.
That being said. odds are the wheels/axles or turnout guide rails are out of spec. Usually it's the wheel set. An NMRA gauge will tell you, but then you have to figure out what to do to correct it. Sometimes you can pry the wheels apart or squeeze them together until they match the specs on the gauge or freely pass the turnouts. In my case, again in "N" scale, I adjust the wheels on locos and if I can't correct the wheel spacing in one or two attempts, I replace the axles with Atlas MT plastic ones. They are cheap and match spec. A piece of sand paper or thin file can open up the plastic guides if necessary.
Archer
If those passenger cars or any other rolling stock have truck-mounted horn hook couplers, that is why they derail when being pushed onto a siding. Truck mounted couplers exert too much sideways pressure onto the wheels and push them off the track, especially with horn hook couplers.
Very good advice from Archer. Also, the earlier post about mis-matched car lengths is right on - and points up another question.
Are these Atlas Snap-Switches (continuous curve through switch matches up with 18 inch radius Snap-Track) or are they "standard" (straight rails on the diverging side) numbered turnouts? If they are Snap-Switches you have the worst possible case for what the late John Armstrong (acknowledged dean of track planners) referred to as the, "Coefficient of lurch," the mismatch between coupler centers when one car is on curved track and the one it's coupled to is on straight track. Unfortunately, it can only be countered by using longer (higher numbered) switches, wider curve radii and spiral easements - none of which are practical options when it comes to Snap-Track components.
One possible Band-aid (there is no cure) is to make sure that the car coupled to the tender is short. If you're assembling a passenger train put an express reefer behind the tender, then a short baggage car, and then your regular passenger cars. If you're moving freight, put a 2-bay hopper or AAR 40-foot box car behind the tender and ahead of any 60-foot furniture cars or double-door reefers.
I actually have a variant of this problem. Most of my freight stock is short, but I do own a couple of long cars (auto racks, container carriers, humonguboxes...) When I make up a train to be backed into the tight radii of one staging yard, I have to make sure that there's a car of intermediate length between the shorter cars (and, usually, the locomotive) and one of the long ladies. If I don't, the long car will push a short car sideways off the curve, or be pulled off to the inside by the (much heavier) locomotive. (My hand-laid turnouts aren't the problem, since they incorporate spiral easements. The problem is the horizontal mismatch between couplers on the 550mm radius curves.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Wow! Thank you all so much! Great points made by all, and none of which had I considered.
Yes, they are standard #4 turnouts. Yes, the passenger cars are full length while the tender is rather short. Another problem was my haste in laying the track. Now that I've looked closer than when I was rushing to get something rolling for the kids I realize two of the turnouts are not perfectly level. What a mess. The good thing is that I'm really just still getting started.
I think I'll back off to one siding on this particular line seeing as how it is a passenger line anyway. In so doing I will use #6 turnouts on a very level base. I just picked up a Bachman 4-8-4 that will pull the longer passenger cars. Hopefully all of this combined will solve the turnout issues, at least on this line.
I had planned on using the 2-6-0 for freight or on my soon to be built logging line. It sounds like using 40' or shorter cars with this locomotive should help while getting through the shorter turnouts. What an adventure this is going to be. After 20 years away it sure seems a daunting task at this point. Oh, and my father-in-law has decided that a helix will be needed! So he's building that from scratch.
Thank you all again!
Atlas turnouts require a mechanical device (switch machine) to correctly throw and hold the points. Use an Atlas machine or one of the other devices; hand throw or electrical. Either work well. Pushing the points by hand will derail constantly.
I've picked up a Tortoise and a Peco machine, both yet to be installed. I've never used "under the table" machines before. Any advice or recommendations on them. Thanks!
theantigiant Yes, they are standard #4 turnouts. Yes, the passenger cars are full length while the tender is rather short. Another problem was my haste in laying the track.
Yes, they are standard #4 turnouts. Yes, the passenger cars are full length while the tender is rather short. Another problem was my haste in laying the track.
Full-length passenger cars aren't compatible with no. 4 turnouts, or even 4.5 "snap" switches.. You should be using at least no. 6's for such equipment. And how about your curves? Assuming HO scale, 24-inch radius is hardly adequate, depending on the models. Better yet, use something greater than 30 inches.