Any good hardware store or home center will have an abbreviated version of the electrical code for a few dollars. This is more than adequate information to plan and execute the kind of low impact wiring needed in a train room. Use the booklet to plan your installation, draw the plan so you can pull a permit and go to work. I've done quite a bit of electrical work this way nd the only comment I've ever had from an inspector was that my work is much neater than what the pros do.
Electrical work isn't hard at all. It's very logical and you'll do just fine if you take your time and check your work. Plus, pulling a permit means you'll get a pro to check it out as well as ensuring that your insurance (sorry, I couldn't help it) will be in order.
I would suggest wiring the empty room to code so that if you ever need to move it will meet code as to receptacle spacing along the wall. If the walls are to be finished. Same for the basic lighting, only one lighting fixture or one switched wall receptacle would be required. Also consider how you are going to get your branch circuit{s} to your train room from the closest load center or your service equipment. Just something to consider. I have 37 years experence in the trade. i am a master electrician licenced in the state of colorado.
SeamonsterR.T., you surely weren't suggesting wiring standard wall outlets to a 30 amp breaker, were you?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
R. T. POTEETWhy not? I know for a fact that they make 110 VAC wall outlets big enough to handle a 30 amp load.
Well, they do make 30 amp 125/250 volt receptacles. Not that a standard household appliance or hobby transformer etc. would have a cord end intended to fit any of the 30 amp receptacles I have ever seen though. I believe there is a reason for that...
R. T. POTEETThe outlets in my kitchen are designed for a 20 amp circuit but I have a 45 amp plug on my coffee grinder.
Yes the standard 125V outlets in your kitchen can be 20 amp and in a kitchen 20 amp circuits and split duplex receptacles would make good sense. As for the coffee grinder, are you saying you have a coffee grinder that is 125V and draws in excess of 40 amps?
Whether you are doing it yourself, or hiring an electrician, remember that code is the minimum requirements for safety (anyone ever watch Mike Holmes - "Holmes of Homes"). There is nothing to prevent you from exceeding code, and you probably should exceed.
For example, in Ontario, regular lighting and electrical outlet circuits are 15 amp. But when planned, they are only planned for 80% (12 amps). That's because at some point, you're going to buy a new tool or toy. If you planned that 15 amp circuit for 15 amps, that new toy might trip the load. By building in a buffer, it allows someone to do something that wasn't planned for and still be safe.
As a rule of thumb, one 100W incadecent light bulb is approximately 1 amp. Therefore, one 15 amp lighting circuit can only accomodate 12 lamps using the 80% rule (of course this is only a rough estimate). If the number of lights you need is close to 12 or between 12 and 15, you should consider adding a second lighting circuit.
Another example of exceeding code would be the placement of the outlets. While it may be acceptable to place the outlets every 12 feet according to code, you might want to consider more. My basement has the outlets according to code; however, I can never find an outlet when I need one. I can't wait to refinish my basement. In contrast, when my parent's basement was redone, they were put every 8 feet. Once the furniture was put back in place, it's amazing how many were needed, and they all seemed to be conveniently located.
The electrical inspector won't mind you exceeding code and the extra cost will be negligible considering the cost to wire the room in the first place.
JSperanAs for the coffee grinder, are you saying you have a coffee grinder that is 125V and draws in excess of 40 amps?
Said coffee grinder is old enough to buy booze; the old plug gave up the ghost in a shower of sparks, popped the 20 amp circuit breaker, and burned the you-know-what out of my thumb and index finger. I bought a plug rated at 45 amps as a replacement--I had never seen a 110 volt plug rated that high before but you can believe me when I say that this thing is hefty and it sure as shootin' ain't gonna' burn the you-know-what out of my fingers.
I may be mistaken in this regard but I surmise that if they have a plug rated at 45 amps then somewhere or another they must have an outlet rated at 45 amps. Just off the top of my head I don't know what it is but I'm sure in one of my technical books it will tell me just what size wire I would need to handle this capacity of current. The biggest I can recall ever encountering was three four (light) switch boxes ganged together totalling twelve switches which controlled 80 plus lights. At these lights it was clearly marked "75 Watt Bulbs Only". Using the time honored Ohms law of P=IE then it computes that this switch box complex had to have been rated at somewhere in the vicinity of 60 amps. I admit that I cannot be sure that each of these switch boxes was not wired to a separate circuit breaker but I know in the Air Force that I encountered 100 amp circuit breakers controlling electronic equipment--which was usually hard-wired--and the wiring was of a humongous size.
The gist of my original post was this: if the original poster is going to use the services of an electrician then why not spend a few extra bucks and have the room wired for two 30 amp circuits. "Work expands to fill the time available for its accomplishment."
And with that I will become a genius and, in the words of George Will, " . . . . . sometimes consists of knowing when to stop." . . . . . which I will now do!
R. T. POTEETHaving just a little bit of trouble reading today are we? I said that I have a 45 amp plug on my coffee grinder; I did not say that it came with a 45 amp plug. Said coffee grinder is old enough to buy booze; the old plug gave up the ghost in a shower of sparks, popped the 20 amp circuit breaker, and burned the you-know-what out of my thumb and index finger. I bought a plug rated at 45 amps as a replacement--I had never seen a 110 volt plug rated that high before but you can believe me when I say that this thing is hefty and it sure as shootin' ain't gonna' burn the you-know-what out of my fingers.
Having just a little bit of trouble reading today are we? I said that I have a 45 amp plug on my coffee grinder; I did not say that it came with a 45 amp plug.
I think your plug is a bit of overkill
I believe you could still end up with a shower of sparks if you end up with a short in the wiring. What you won't have, is you won't have the plug overheating, melting the insides of the plug, causing the short, which ends in a shower of sparks. So good for you not going the el-cheapo route.
That's the trouble these days. A lot of people undersize because it's cheaper. They go to the dollar store and buy that extension cord and think it's great because there are three sockets on the end, so they'll go and plug three appliances into it. Thing is, the cord is not rated for that much current. The more current, the more heat there is. That thin flimsy extension cord isn't much good for anything, except maybe one 60 watt lightbulb.
When it comes to electrical, it's worth spending the money to do it right.
R. T. POTEETHaving just a little bit of trouble reading today are we? I said that I have a 45 amp plug on my coffee grinder; I did not say that it came with a 45 amp plug.
Sorry, my mistake. Don't get mad about it.
R. T. POTEETThe gist of my original post was this: if the original poster is going to use the services of an electrician then why not spend a few extra bucks and have the room wired for two 30 amp circuits.
No doubt about it you should plan for expansion and not limit oneself to minimum code as another fellow mentions.
However the best way to do this IMO is not to put in two 30 amp circuits. Rather put in additional 15 amp circuits and don't load the circuits to the maximum. Put in double or triple gang receptacles, split the duplex plugs and wire with separate circuits. Instead of using higher amperage circuit breakers and heavier cable just add more 15 amp circuits. It just makes more sense.
If your going to have a 5+ hp 2 stage air compressor in your train room, by all means put in a 30 amp 220V circuit for it.
R. T. POTEETI may be mistaken in this regard but I surmise that if they have a plug rated at 45 amps then somewhere or another they must have an outlet rated at 45 amps. Just off the top of my head I don't know what it is but I'm sure in one of my technical books it will tell me just what size wire I would need to handle this capacity of current.
Just off the top of my head I can tell you that Canadian code, (not sure if the US NEC is similar or not) requires 8 gauge wire for a 40 amp circuit, so your 45 amp circuit would probably require #6 cable. 30 amp circuits,like for an electric clothes dryer would require #10.
Edit: Answered my own question...
While this thread has wandered on the OP has probably already wired his room, LOL!
JSperanJust off the top of my head I can tell you that Canadian code, (not sure if the US NEC is similar or not) requires 8 gauge wire for a 40 amp circuit, so your 45 amp circuit would probably require #6 cable. 30 amp circuits,like for an electric clothes dryer would require #10. Original question edited out: I could be wrong, but I can't ever remember seeing a single pole 30 amp breaker. Does such a thing exist? Anytime I have dealt with 30 amp circuits they were all 240V so they had two pole breakers. Any equipment I have worked on that required in excess of 20 amp circuit protection was 240V or more.
Original question edited out: I could be wrong, but I can't ever remember seeing a single pole 30 amp breaker. Does such a thing exist? Anytime I have dealt with 30 amp circuits they were all 240V so they had two pole breakers. Any equipment I have worked on that required in excess of 20 amp circuit protection was 240V or more.
My electric dryer is double pole 30 amp. Certainly less common in residential wiring. However trailers are 120 V 30 amp, therefore the breakers at the campgrounds must be single pole 30 amp. We put a small commercial dishwasher in our church, and it seems to me that it was also single pole 30 amp.
I have house-wired (120 V) for 2 large layouts, first in my attic then in the basement. I went to Home Depot and bought a book that explains lighing circuits and studied it carefully. If you want to wire your train room yourself ... go ahead ... be be aware you can electrocute someone or start a fire if you do not do it correctly ! You must understand Ohm's law (resistance,current and voltage) and you must learn how to make proper, safe conections. You need to know what size wire to use for a given length and how much amps/watts etc. that the 'setup' will handle at the constant 120 volts (Ohm's law again !) I currently have about 16 flour. light fixtures (2 circuits) and about 35 to 40 60 watt incandescant bulbs on 3 circuits for 15 yrs and not a single problem ... but had to plan carefully so as not to excede the safety limits of each circuit. Although I must admit there WAS 1 outlet in my attic wireing that sparked when I went to use it ... so I never used it ever again ! Never did know what was wrong there ! And when my friend, a builder, was wiring a dimmer switch for me in the basement yrs ago, he did manage to send a bright spark all the way across the room -- right past my head as I was hooking up a tortoise macvhine !! Found out his connection has touched the metal case of the box ... so we quickly threw the breaker to the circuit and re-wired the dimmer !!! So can wire yourself but be careful of mistakes and overloading circuits !
The project from hell .
DCH (PM&W RR)
Hi!
You have lots of good advice already, and I'll just add my two cents.......
Having one 15 amp circuit would probably work just fine, but two would be better. Of course all that depends on the size of the room and what all you will be hooking up. In any case, having a good number of outlets would be very helpful too. IMHO, I would not mess with 30 amp circuits.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Soem points not touched on so far Check with your home owners insurance policy, even having a electrcian do the work MAY not be covered under your current policy, such work sometimes requires an adjustment to your policy as such work may be considered as "reconstruction / new construction".You may want to invest in some kind of emergency lighting for your layout room. These are typicaly wired directly into the exsisting/new wireing for your lights and have a trickle charger/battery for if you lose complete power to your residence. Ask yourself if you lose all power will you and any potential guests be able to find your way out?? If you are going to use DCC, get a UPS (uninterpretable power supply). A good UPS will have not only surge protection but will also have a built in line conditioner (if you have ever had any sensitive electronics die for an unexplained reason your line may be "dirty" coming into your junction box).For sub-panels in the USA it requires a Master Electrcian to do pull the permit. This will cost you more, but a sub-panel will be a great benefit in the long run.I would recomend keeping your power tools / mini-fridge and such on a different circuit then the wireing to your layout. This will only cost you the additional cost in the breaker panel.
Which brings up a side issue, which is the National Fire Protection code. Many of the double-decked, helix-bound, walkaround layouts I have seen in magazines (and a few in person) violate fire egress law, if more than one or two "operators" are in the room. Those wooden and plaster rabbit-warrens are fire traps. Talk to your local building inspector to see if your plan is OK. With model railroad lighting, valances, and other improvisations (not accounted for in the housing codes), you don't want to burn your house down, or be trapped in a smoke-filled helix.
Robt. Livingston Which brings up a side issue, which is the National Fire Protection code. Many of the double-decked, helix-bound, walkaround layouts I have seen in magazines (and a few in person) violate fire egress law, if more than one or two "operators" are in the room. Those wooden and plaster rabbit-warrens are fire traps. Talk to your local building inspector to see if your plan is OK. With model railroad lighting, valances, and other improvisations (not accounted for in the housing codes), you don't want to burn your house down, or be trapped in a smoke-filled helix.
I am all in favor of adherence to building codes and agree that there are undoubtedly many layouts-especially in basements-that are potential fire traps for users; however, if the residential building code in my former home state of NY is any example:
• The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) standard for fire safety (#101 if I recall) does not necessarily apply in private residences.
• Wood and plaster inside a private residence are ubiquitous and irrelevant, code-wise.
• Double-deck layouts are of no concern either, per se.
• The presence of more than 2 or 3 people is also irrelevant (even in non-residential buildings, less than 50 people would not necessarily trigger the stringent rules for public assembly).
• Lighting and power provided per the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70, I believe) and the local code should be okay.
• Foam insulation-unprotected by less than the equivalent of 1/2" gypsum board is a hazard, but I suspect that strictly speaking, because it is part of the layout which can be considered a furnishing and is not part of the building itself, the code authority could not hang its hat on the code.
• The NY code requires halls and stairways to be 36' wide, minimum. Aisle widths around furnishings are not addressed for residences.
• Before consulting the local code authority, I would research the code yourself. Depending on the competence and experience of that authority, he might understandably opt for the most stringent interpretations of the code (or even make them up himself). Not that there is anything wrong with being as safe as possible, but by knowing the code yourself ahead of time, you might avoid being subjected to overkill.