Mostly just the yard - still workign on the cement plant, trying to squeeze in both silos for loading covered hopeprs and a building for laoding boxcars with bagged product, plus at least some of the structures, and a dump area for coal and other additives. Short siding right center is a place for the plant loco.
The yard may seem weak realtive to concepts of AD tracks and so forth, but it's a compressed version of what's actually there - see link below pic to Bing Maps bird's eye view. Behind the main in the yard is a backdrop and behind that is staging for one end.
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=qryx7q8q0g14&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=26905286&encType=1
edit: have to flip the Bing Maps view around, on the model you are standing to the west, the default view of the map is looking north.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerThe yard may seem weak relative to concepts of AD tracks and so forth, but it's a compressed version of what's actually there - see link below pic to Bing Maps bird's eye view. Behind the main in the yard is a backdrop and behind that is staging for one end.
That three track interchange/industry support yard looks fine to me. Remind me - we were talking H0 scale and 12" grid on the drawing here or was this something else?
If H0 and 12" grid and transition era 40-foot cars, then you have room for about 20 cars maximum total for all tracks on the peninsula, realistically more like 12-15 cars, to give you a little work space to move cars around inside the plant (e.g. to spot more cars to be loaded/unloaded), with room for about 4 or 5 cars on the silo loader track - that's a nice sized industry for a room sized H0 scale layout, all right.
If we number the three tracks in the interchange yard track 1 (longest track/doubles as mainline siding), track 2 and track 3 (shortest double ended track), it would seem like track 3 is about 2.5 feet long, track 2 is about 3.5 feet long, and that there is about 6 feet between leftmost turnout from the main to track 1 and the yard ladder.
Or in other words - room for about 12 40-foot cars on track 1 between the mainline leftmost turnout without fouling the rightmost yard ladder, room for about 9 cars between the yard ladders on track 1, room for about 7 40-foot cars on track 2 without fouling any of the ladders, and room for about 5 40-foot cars on track 1 without fouling turnouts.
Should be enough work room for your plant switcher to pull about 12-15 outbound cars from the industry and leave them on track 2 and 3 in the interchange yard for the mainline train to pull, using track 1 to run around the dropped off outbound cars to get back to the plant.
Enough room for a mainline train to use train 1 as part of a decent sized mainline siding when it is not occupied by cars being dropped off or picked up, and plenty of room to drop off another 12-15 or so inbound cars for the plant on track 1, 2 and/or 3 after the outbound cars has been pulled.
Enough room for the industry switcher to be able to get out from the plant into the interchange yard when dropped off inbound cars are waiting. Instructions for mainline train will have have to say to make sure that if they leave more than 12 cars, some cars must be shoved into one of the two bottommost industry support yard tracks, while leaving at least one track for the plant switcher to run around cars and push them into the yard :-)
Enough of room for the industry switcher to sort/organize those 12-15 or so inbound cars in the interchange yard using tracks 1, 2 and 3 without fouling the main, and for the industry switcher to run around the inbound cars using one of the three tracks as as runaround, and then push inbound cars into the right plant track on the peninsula.
While preserving both the function and the prototype look and feel from the Bird's eye view. Selective compression has you dropping one double ended yard track, and shortering track lengths by about 50% or so, without making the shortest track too horribly short.
Should provide some fun both for the mainline train and the plant switcher, and you can run the plant switcher as a separate little layout of its ownwhile things are being built.
I'd say you did a pretty decent job with that interchange yard, Randy.
Grin, Stein
Thanks for the feedback, Stein. Yes, this is HO, and while the grid tends to not export reliably from 3rd Plan It, it is a 12" grid. You're about dead on on the yard tracks - the straight portion alone on the short track is 27" and the second track is 47", the short track could eb expanded slightly as the radius connecting the turnout to the straight is well above the minimum of 24" I set. Not sure how much more I could squeeze in going down to 22", since I'll only be running 4 axle diesels and 40' and shorter cars, but that would render the use of #5 turnouts mostly pointless.
I also realize I may have shot myself in the foot with the penninsula. To allow 30" of aisle space, the yard side can only be 18" wide, which fits (the yard tracks are on 2 1/2" spacing in the drawing, probably too much in practice), but then the other side can only be 12" wide. And it has to accomodate a pair of staging tracks behind a backdrop just like on the yard side. There's not much along that portion of the line in the modeled era, but I don;t want the layout to be just interchange with the main (that will be by the door and require a liftup section), one industry, and yard. I realize that chosing a large industry is goign to make that dominate the layout, but I don;t want it to be the ONLY industry. Some examples from the prototype, beyond the yard (into staging) there are several other customers, a lumber yard, a team track for the highway department, and interchanged with 2 other railroads, one primarily a cement hauler (lots of cement plants in this region!). I'll be seeing what fits in the limited space as I work on the plan some more today. It only has to be narrow for the length of the penninsula, but I'm also thinking to fit a reasonable representation of the cement plant buildings, I will have to extend the penninsula a bit more.
hi Randy,
If you shot yourself in the foot, the big question is: what to do now?
You have a nice plan, it will work, but i feel I do not know enough about your idea's to comment.
For instance: how important is it for you to switch the small yard 100% independent from the main? ; depends on the number of trains running on the main. Are you a lone operator or is a bunch of guy's your dream?
How important for you is maintaining aisle width?; the lower aisle will see less visitors then the upper one and could be only 24" wide.
Can you make the peninsula less wide but longer? Do you really need two staging area's? Without having seen your whole plan it is impossible to give serious comments. Difficult to see, but the radius on the cementplant branch seems to be almost 24"; is this a given or a druther to you?
Lots of questions, but you have to take your decisions.
Keep smiling, keep having fun
Paul
Paulus Jas hi Randy, If you shot yourself in the foot, the big question is: what to do now? You have a nice plan, it will work, but i feel I do not know enough about your idea's to comment. For instance: how important is it for you to switch the small yard 100% independent from the main? ; depends on the number of trains running on the main. Are you a lone operator or is a bunch of guy's your dream? How important for you is maintaining aisle width?; the lower aisle will see less visitors then the upper one and could be only 24" wide. Can you make the peninsula less wide but longer? Do you really need two staging area's? Without having seen your whole plan it is impossible to give serious comments. Difficult to see, but the radius on the cementplant branch seems to be almost 24"; is this a given or a druther to you? Lots of questions, but you have to take your decisions. Keep smiling, keep having fun Paul
Ugggh, sometiems I just HATE this forum software, I clicked spell check and it didn't spell check anything, it refreshed and erased my long and detailed reply!
Shorter version:
I mainly operate alone. No worries on the yard and main, on the real thing there are no other passing sidings other than the interchanges at the ends.
30" aisles pretty much minimum, as I am a typical fat American. 24" aisles would grow tiresome rather quickly. I don;t want the side along that bottom wall to be just a long straight track though, on the real thing there is a team track, possible service on what used to be an additional branch to a quarry but was long gone by the 1950's, and on a shipper's guide I found it seems to indicate a feed mill in the area had rail service at that time.
24" radius is a druther, my equipment could easily operate on smaller radius, but I have already invested in Fast Tracks tooling to make #5 turnouts. I wouldn't use less than a #4.5 no matter what, and the space savings from the #5 to #4.5 isn't worth worrying about.
Staging, the real branch had quite a ways to go beyond the yard, serving additional customers as well as interchanging with several railroads, so I think I do need staging for that end of the line.
I'll try to update the plan tonight - I have completed the whole thing around the room but definitely not 100% satisfied with it at this point. I'll post that version tonight.
And here's the update, the main feature added is the interchange witht he East Penn main line at ALburtis, over by the door. In reality the main is double tracked, but I don;t think I have the room. The track that dead ends before running into the staging track at the bottom left would be the main and continue on, but there's a wall there!
Randy, say for a second you go with this plan above. Would you be at all interested in converting, or enabling, the spur at lower right on your central peninsula to form a turning wye? It would just require an extension along a curve toward the lower right and joining the inner track there.
-Crandell
This is a little off topic, but I'm curious what that neat facility is with all the trailers parked on the property. If I travel to the east in your link it is along Blue Barn Road.
hi randy,
a couple of things I don't like at first glance. Maybe you have been thinking them over a long time ago, alas.
1) The entrance into the alcove is not to your standards(30")
2) You have a nasty duck under near the door. Not just a drop-in, a whole station on it.
3)You don't have the width to develop the lower part along the wall, between the door and the window. (scene C)
4) The ceiling is too low part. I also have my layout in the attic; the modelled part need a 12" to 18" high backdrop. For staging only you don't need that heigth. I have no clue about the possibility's behind the backdrop in your situation.
5) The track that ends dead on the wall is prototypecaly but does it add to your design? The track in the middle could also connect with the track into scene C.
Some thoughts about changes:
You have more space then you are thinking; in HO you could easily fit four tracks on a one foot wide shelf. Use the alcove for staging (4 tracks), still leaves you with a 4 ft wide man space.
Think about the consequenses: your yard scene can ( not must) be 6" shallower and you don't need a second staging area (another 6"). Above all you can build your peninsula only 18" wide (another 6"). You are gaining totaly 18" in width, without making the aisles narrower. Ample space to develop scene C.
There is a price, as always. The station between the door and the alcove (scene D) must be redesigned if you want a drop-in entrance. Maybe the throat of the staging area must be incorporated in scene D to get enough staging track length.
If you are running one train at a time, fouling the main a bit is no problem. At the left side of the yard you don't need an engine pocket; your yard tracks will gain two foot.
You don't need an engine service track in your cementplant. Being the only engine in town it can be served on the branch. Much longer in-plant-tracks are the result.
BTW by using a more realistic spacing as you did in scene D you'll see better what can be achieved. Your layout seemed to be in S-scale.
BTW giving names to scenes is very helpful, makes talking about them far more easy.
I am not telling you what to do, I only gave you some thougths, your job is to tinker and finalize your plan. Please post your next versions as well.
Have fun and keep smiling
Good luck
(I am from Holland and I miss a spelling check dearly)
1. The entrance to the alcove is barely 30" with no benchwork around - it's hard to visualize from a flat 2D drawing but the ceiling only reaches my stnading height about even with the front of the benchwork at the top. To fit 4 tracks in the alcove space I would need to definitely compromise the 24" radius. I know from past experience that even with 32" radius and 40' cars the spacing between tracks has to open up a bit on curves to prevent fouling.
2. Yes. It need to be a lift-up or drop down of some sort. This is a must, no way of getting around it - the door opens in.
3. This is the main problem right now. Past the end of the penninsula it can get wider than 12", but that doesn't leave room for much.
4. (also related to 1) I already cheated. The staging tracks are in the area that is too low for a backdrop. At my preferred table height (actually, I've already compromised and reduced it slightly) of 48", there's 4" of clearance over the staging tracks - so removing those and putting them elsewhere would not gain more yard space or make that side narrower. An alternate for the staging at the bottom would be great, there it is just wasting space along a full-height wall.
5. A great idea, since at the time, the branch actually did curve off with 2 tracks which joined just North (plan left, if facing the tracks) of the junction.
Others: Yes, for some reason I drew the yard ladder with 2.5" spacing instead of 2". All other parallel tracks are on 2" spacing.
The alcove are I don;t intend to actually operate from, it does reduce the close-up sceniced area, but even squeezing the track entrance and exit to as narrow a shelf against the edge as possible would make it difficult to follow your train through that area.
Engine service in the cement plant - it really isn;t a service track, more a loco pocket and maybe a simple shed. My idea for operation was that the plant switcher would wait there out of the way while the inbounds nad outbounds were handled by the railroad's loco, then the plant switrcher would go to work spotting empties at the loading dock and under the chutes, switching cars between the loading spots and one track used to house extra empties which gradually would be repalced with loads, until the next time the railroad came in and swapped cars again. Like anything though, this is subject to change, and it could be the plant switcher that pulls the whole train from the yard to the plant - although I might need something bigger than a 44-tonner then.
More updates will be coming.
Hi Randy
I did try out what you said, you were right, it is very difficult to use the alcove for staging. Using 22", 24.25" and 26.50" as radii I was able to get a three track staging yard in.
The distance between the tracks at the alcove entrance is 30"; a 24"wide aisle into the alcove seems possible.
The trackplan is designed with atlas code 85 track; I used #4, 6 and 8 switches.
BTW I never had problems with a two inch spacing (radii were 14" and 16") using a mix of 40 ft and 50 ft cars.
Have fun on the drawing board, keep smiling and good luck
OK, here's something I thought up while I was redrawing the Alburtis interchange to have the two tracks curve around to meet the main, as you mentioned. Since I already had a large space between the line leading to the lower staging and the main tracks, I had the thought that maybe I could squeeze the staging in that space along the short wall, brining them up short of the door. After much tweaking with the angles of the turnouts, I finally got it to work. In this variation, the door is free and clear - no liftups needed to be able to open the door. The 3 staging tracks have almost the same capacity as the two behind Chapman's. The 'main line' continues right down to the wall, although it will need to be disguised a bit - tracks dead ending into walls or even a backdrop aren't too convincing. Couple of negatives - access to the alcove is now even harder, and unless I can live with a duckunder entrance, I'll still need a liftout or drop down somewhere around Alburtis. However, there now is plenty of space for a few sidings in the Trexlertown area since I am no longer wasting space for staging and a second backdrop. The more I look at this, the more I think it's a step in the right direction, although not yet perfected. One thing I keep forgetting, I have to fit my work table in here somewhere. I may have to get a different one with wheels on it to roll under the penninsula while running the layout - I am in no way committed to using the old cheap computer desk I currently have.
Thank you for all the comments, it's good to bounce ideas of someone else while working on things like this.
Ok CRAZY idea for the alcove - Chapman's comes straight across, starts climbing around the look, line goes straight down to Alburtis. Staging behind Alburtis (door/wall side) with a backdrop between the staging tracks and the Alburtis tracks.
Or not, I just did a rough calculation and the distance falls short of getting enough clearance with a 2.5% grade. Oh well.
Edit: wait, I must have forgot to add something. 3/4 of a 24" radius circle. About 113". Assuming I start just across the opening from Chapmans, that's about 3 feet to the start of the curve. Same going back across the top. Plus almost 3 feet down from the top before the overpass. 113" + 36" + 36" +36" is 221", at 2% that's a 4.4" rise, plenty for HO (no double stacks in my era). It's another complication in construction, but it makes the duckunder at Alburtis 4" higher as well. Just have to figure where to then drop it back down, there's really not enough linear track between the turnout to the left of Trexlertown and the turnout that starts Chapmans yard. Oh well, it was a thought.
a mix of two idea's; I called it X-staging after an idea of Byron Henderson.
Just to keep the entrance to the alcove (25") open and to create a better access from the door.
No fine tuning done; just to check if it would fit.
The track closest to the door is the interchange; where you see a "dot" I used #6 or #8 turnouts.
Double tracking the drop-in by means of a lap-siding would make it possible to have "my" Alburtis completely on the modelled part of the layout too.
Now this I like! Witht he staging wrapping all the way around the loop, I only need 2 tracks to have equal lengths at each end of the railroad. I was planning to serially stage 2 trains on each track if I actually need that many - 2 trains ready to go at each end is actually probably more like it, this is not a high traffic branch.
The obvious "d'oh" moment - ANGLE Alburtis as you did there. It looks as though I might be able to another track in there, or curve things around a bit more - I think the station goes closer to the wall. I have to check one of my reference books that' still packed away to be sure - btw here's the present day bird's eye view of Alburtis - I think the station sat where that yellow car is parked int he middle of the picture.
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=qrjr7b8pznsb&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=26926173&encType=1
I have some of those pesky 'chore' things to do but if I get some time to sit back down at the computer I'll see what I come up with incorporating some of these new ideas. I also need to double check some mearuements, I took a quick check last night and I might have shorted myself 6" on the clearance point of the sloping ceiling area, assuming a 48" base table height. Not that it's a lot, but it would allow the Trexlertown side to also be 18" wide instead of 12" and still have 30" aisles. ANd getting the staging into the alcove area is the best yet - from the beginning I've been trying to do something with that space since it's mostly wasted. My first idea had been to put a helix there and put the staging underneath Chapmans. I like woodworking and all, but building a helix...naaa, not for me. The drop down/liftout/whatever section is goign to be enough - and if it can be done with just 1 or 2 tangent tracks on it, so much the better! I can steal the design from the modular club's gate, which is 3 tracks wide.
And yes - I managed to get it all in.
Feed mill at the bottom by Trexlertown, team track by the curve between Trexlertown and the penninsula.
rrinker And yes - I managed to get it all in. Feed mill at the bottom by Trexlertown, team track by the curve between Trexlertown and the penninsula. --Randy
Paul's idea to use Henderson X-factor staging was good - one especially good thing about X-factor staging is that it is easy to reset staging (ie to back trains that has ended up in east/south/whatever staging with the engine at the tail end of the track across the two turnouts, so it ends up in the other staging, ready to go for the next operating session) - gives you the functionality of having double ended staging without having a yard ladder at each end.
Everything taken into account - you will have decent staging for four about 10-foot trains (ie 16-18 cars or so with an engine or two in H0), you have a realistic looking industry support yard, room for a large industry with several tracks, you have (in effect) two decent sized mainline sidings - on visually opposite sides of the layout (Chapman yard and Alburtis), both of which also can be used for switching/runaround, you have a nice mix of facing and trailing industry spurs along the lower end of the layout (Alburtis/Trexlertown area), you have a sensible number of scenes for a layout that size and visual separation between the scenes, and you have working areas for two operators if necessary (one working Chapman and Leheigh Cement from the upper aisle, one working Trexlertown and Alburtis from the lower aisle).
- Will both sets of staging tracks be reasonably accessible if necessary ? What's the ceiling height above alcove staging ? And will you have some kind of easy to lift out panels (maybe fastened by magnets or something) in front of the staging behind Chapman yard ?
- Is that curve down by the door in the lower left hand corner (between Alburtis and Trexlertown) a little on the sharp side or is that just an optical illusion on the drawing ? Easy enough to make the curves wider by pulling it inwards a little, so not a biggie.
Looks good!
The ceiling in the alcove is full height. Where the two staging tracks end on the left is actually a closet but I'm not worried about blocking it. The closet actually is the space from the diagonal wall to the left edge. I was planning a removable backdrop behind the yard, but also the benchwork is not tight up against the celing so in an extreme case it would be possible to reach up behind it.
The one thought I had while falling asleep last night was if I should put another crossover in the double track portion through Alburtis, and if to, which way. It still remains to redo some of the cement plant area to actually make room to fit the structures in. What's on the drawing now is a pair of the Medusa Cement silos with the loading sheds as placeholders. I do plan on getting one or two of those and adding it to the Valley Cement to make a more interesting overall industry.
Oh yes - there are no curves smaller than 24" - in fact they are all at least some fraction larger than that, mainly to allow for 'construction slop'. There are none drawn even exactly at 24"
Hi Randy,
Great idea, adding an crossover in Alburtis. You can switch Alburtis on the far side of the drop-in; so the drop-in is functioning as a scenic devider with the TXL scene.
For some reason I imagine your layout near a big river; are you intentions to model a river scene and a bridge?
When do you start the build? Keep us happy with pictures please.
Nope, no big rivers along this line, until you get to the end I'm not modeling - it ends up against the Lehigh River, and crosses it to interchange with the Lehigh Valley RR and others on the opposite side.
While leaving out the drop in so that the layout is poitn to point is a great idea, it jsut wouldn;t work operationally - if it was possble to have the removable section on the alcove side of Alburtis it would be perfect.
When's construction start? As soon as I am completely satisfied with the plan, and unpack and clean up the train room - it became the dumping ground for all the stuff not yet put away from the move. I should also get busy with my FastTracks tools and lay in a stock of turnouts. I've only had time to make 2 so far - the first one was just experimenting and I never intended to complete it, the second one I completed from sttart to finish and while it works oeprationally - a truck pushed through rolls smoothly and never picks a point or frog no matter how much I try - it's rather ugly. I suppose it would do in a pinch in staging where no one would see it.
Plenty of pictures - I promised myself I would keep my web site updated as I built. I was doing it, too, but it hasn't been updated recently mainly because I haven't done anything. But there will be pictures and, now that I have a digital video camera, movies as well. Just none of me putting a drywall screw through my hand, or dripping hot solder on my head.