soldering

[warner brook]

good morning
has anyone any experience with resistance soldering?i`ve been thinking of buying a resistance tool from micro mark,i`d like to hear of some opinions from others before i invest in one as they are kind of expensive.i`am not to good with a regular iron i seem to over do it.i tried both low and high wattage irons,my main ussage would be soldering ho track.[banghead].any help on this particular soldering iron would be appreciated.
thank you roy

[cwclark]

Before you go off and buy new stuff I have one question..are you using soldering "flux"?...Many years back I couldn't solder worth a hoot until I found that you got to put a little dab of flux on the work to be soldered...The flux or "solder paste" comes in a "shoe polish" type can or a tube and it looks alot like axle grease...I use a toothpick to scoop up a very small amount and dab it on the work before i solder it...Another thing I found is to keep the soldering iron tip clean (just wipe the tip on a wet spong after each solder.) Also, use a thin diameter solder...Finally, use "Rosin Core" solder ...acid core solder is for plumbing, not railroad circuits and wire...Chuck

[cacole]

Don't use solder flux on electronics or track -- it is acid based and is not intended for such uses. Use resin core solder or purchase a bottle of resin flux. The acid flux in a can is for plumbing and uses other than electronics. It may work, but the joint will eventually corrode due to the acid in the flux.

As far as resistance soldering is concerned, you can use this type of equipment IF you are soldering track joints or feeder wires, but you need a fairly good connection through the rail joiner so current can flow through it. The principle of resistance soldering is that a low voltage, high electrical current through the track joint causes it to get hot. With enough current, the joint becomes hot enough to melt solder.

Personally, I have never had much luck with resistance soldering, and instead rely on a soldering gun or 30-40 Watt soldering iron, depending on the material to be soldered.

[cwclark]

GENERAL PURPOSE ORGANIC ACID (OA) FLUX






> Formulated for electronic, electrical, industrial, artisan, and aerospace applications, including:
Wire, Cable, and Terminal Lead Tinning and Soldering
Flat and Round Wire Fabrication
Semiconductor and Component Lead Tinning
Stained Glass
> Used for copper, beryllium-copper, nickel, alloy 42, alloy 51, brass, and some steels.
> VOC-Free formulation is non-hazardous and environmentally friendly.
> Conforms to IPC ANSI J-STD-004, Type ORM1.
> Broad activity range an excellent choice for tin/lead, tin/silver, tin/bismuth, and indium solder alloys.
I beg to differ with you....i've used flux for years and have never once seen corrosion on track, circuits or wire...the solder itself is what you need to watch for..acid core or rosin core...acid core for plumbing...rosin core for electrical stuff

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Don't use solder flux on electronics or track -- it is acid based and is not intended for such uses. Use resin core solder or purchase a bottle of resin flux. The acid flux in a can is for plumbing and uses other than electronics. It may work, but the joint will eventually corrode due to the acid in the flux.

Electronics grade rosin flux is also available in cans like shoe polish.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by warner brook

good morning
has anyone any experience with resistance soldering?i`ve been thinking of buying a resistance tool from micro mark,i`d like to hear of some opinions from others before i invest in one as they are kind of expensive.i`am not to good with a regular iron i seem to over do it.i tried both low and high wattage irons,my main ussage would be soldering ho track.[banghead].any help on this particular soldering iron would be appreciated.
thank you roy

Roy;

A resistance soldering system is NOT going to solve you difficulties. You need to spend some time learning how to solder with what you have. Take a look at some of the articles and/or purchase a book so that you can learn the theory, then practice. It is a learned skill, it takes understanding and time to succeed.

[warner brook]

thanks guys i think i saved a few bucks,i have a habit of jumping on something new sometimes it works othertimes [:(] oh well.practice practice.
roy

[Anonymous]

Roy,

In responce to your original question regarding resistance soldering equipment, you can find a lot of helpful information on-line. Here is a link for starters: http://members.aol.com/deansiding/rsstext.htm. You will also find helpful information by clicking the support tab on the home page of American Beauty's web-site found at www.americanbeautytools.com. There are technical bullitens about resistance soldering, soldering irons, tip care and even fluxes. I hope this info helps you find some answers.

b_dog

[Sperandeo]

Hello Roy,

I use resistance soldering equipment to work on brass locomotive and rolling stock models, and for trackwork. I started with the Triton carbon-electrode tweezers that Micro-Mark now sells and still use them. I also have the Hot Tip rig sold by PBL and I'm very happy with it. The American Beauty resistance soldering rig sold by Micro-Mark is quite similar. Resistance soldering isn't a silver bullet that cures bad technique, but it does allow you to quickly apply a lot of heat exactly where it's needed, in the joint.

These tools are easy to use and effective, but it's still important to make prepartions like cleaning the work, tinning mating surfaces, making good mechanical joints where possible, and using the appropriate flux. Rosin – not resin – flux is perfectly safe for track and electrical work.

Good luck,

Andy

[wickman]

I was wandering myself about soldering if I'm following proper procedure what I do (and this does work for me ) is flux the connector and track being soldered and I take my hot soldering iron touch the can of solder paste with tip of solder iron then I toch the thin solder on the roll end then put hot tip to connector / track and the solder flows quite nicely . I've heard your not suppose to do it this way from someone who solders plumming I was told to heat area with iron then touch solder to heated area , this has never given me good results doing it this way. My track joints have always solderd well and held well with my technique whether its exceptable or not is ?[:)]

[dgwinup]

Hi, wickman,

As in everything model railroading, ask a question, get a dozen different answers!

Your method of soldering is perfectly acceptable for the small areas you are soldering. By dipping the iron tip in flux, you are cleaning the tip. Touching it to the solder tins and pre-loads the tip. When you touch the joint, the flux, hot iron and solder all combine to give you a clean, fast joint. If you were working with a larger area, the joint would not get hot enough to cause the solder to run in properly. You would then need to heat the joint, then apply the solder.

Two things for you: occassionally wipe the tip of the solding iron on a wet sponge. This really cleans the tip, giving you a better, hotter surface. Also, after soldering, you can check the soldered joint visually. If it is bright and shiny, it's a good joint. Bad joints will be a dull silver color.

I have soldered a wide variety of things ranging from a 2" copper pipe joint down to fine stained glass work, and there are different techniques involved in all of it. Stay with what works for you.

Darrell, heatedly quiet...for now

[rtesta]

If I can jump onboard this topic.
I've been considering the same issues, namely, do I invest in resistance soldering? I have no trouble soldering track or track feeders, BUT i seem to have problems soldering my 16Ga feeders to my 12Ga power bus, just cant seem to get enough heat to let it flow.
Not a good justification to invest in a resistance unit and I may try suitcase connectors, they seem to get good press, but I've always prefered solder and dont mind the extra work,

bobt

PS .. Mr. Sperandeo, I dont know if others feel the same way but I appreciate your taking the time to converse with us amatures. While I understand we are the source of your "bread & butter", your joining in makes me feel a bond with the big leauges. Thanks!

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

Hi, wickman,

As in everything model railroading, ask a question, get a dozen different answers!

Your method of soldering is perfectly acceptable for the small areas you are soldering. By dipping the iron tip in flux, you are cleaning the tip. Touching it to the solder tins and pre-loads the tip. When you touch the joint, the flux, hot iron and solder all combine to give you a clean, fast joint. If you were working with a larger area, the joint would not get hot enough to cause the solder to run in properly. You would then need to heat the joint, then apply the solder.

Two things for you: occassionally wipe the tip of the solding iron on a wet sponge. This really cleans the tip, giving you a better, hotter surface. Also, after soldering, you can check the soldered joint visually. If it is bright and shiny, it's a good joint. Bad joints will be a dull silver color.

I have soldered a wide variety of things ranging from a 2" copper pipe joint down to fine stained glass work, and there are different techniques involved in all of it. Stay with what works for you.

Darrell, heatedly quiet...for now

thankyou
thats reassuring and yes the solder joints are nice and shiney

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtesta

If I can jump onboard this topic.

PS .. Mr. Sperandeo, I dont know if others feel the same way but I appreciate your taking the time to converse with us amatures. While I understand we are the source of your "bread & butter", your joining in makes me feel a bond with the big leauges. Thanks!

yes exactley what he said [:)]

[Anonymous]

True, flux is an acid. Acid flux is made for the soldering of steels and such. Since the nickle-silver rails are "steel-like, it's not a bad match. It WILL give you the best shot at making a good solder connection.

If you're worried about using acid flux, then wash off the rails when you're done. A couple of seconds with an old tooth brush and dab of soapy water is all you need. You should do it anyway whether you're using acid or rosin flux.

I would not use it (acid flux) on stranded wire, as you can never wa***he flux out from the strands after they've wicked up inside the wire.

If you flux the rail before you start, you're in good shape. I put flux inside the joiner before I install it. Solder flows freely inside the joiner. Don't worry about "filling" the joiner. Not needed.

I can solder a feeder to the bottom of the rail without seriously damaging the ties (no damage visible from above, and that's by using a 100 watt gun.

Mark in Utah

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtesta


If I can jump onboard this topic.
I've been considering the same issues, namely, do I invest in resistance soldering? I have no trouble soldering track or track feeders, BUT i seem to have problems soldering my 16Ga feeders to my 12Ga power bus, just cant seem to get enough heat to let it flow.
Not a good justification to invest in a resistance unit and I may try suitcase connectors, they seem to get good press, but I've always prefered solder and dont mind the extra work,

bobt

PS .. Mr. Sperandeo, I dont know if others feel the same way but I appreciate your taking the time to converse with us amatures. While I understand we are the source of your "bread & butter", your joining in makes me feel a bond with the big leauges. Thanks!

For heavy gauge wire like the #12 you need more heat. I currently have 3 sodlering tools - a 15 watt iron I use for electronic work like soldering decoder wires and LEDs, a 60 watt iron I sometimes use for slightly heavier wire, and a 100 watt gun I use to solder my feeders to the bus - and I'm considering replacing that with a 150 watt - one with a light, as the one I have has no light to illuminate the tip like some models and in the back corners it's a little dark under there. The 15 watt iron won't even get a piece of scrap #12 wire hot enough to melt solder, let alone heat TWO pieces of heavy wire to join them. Well, it does, eventually, if you want to take an hour per joint. Yes, it IS possible to have too small an iron - that same 15 watt unit would melt the heck out of plastic ties if I tried soldering track feeders with it, as well. It takes too long to heat the immediate area to solder melting temperature - and at the same time heats a foot to either side hot enough to melt plastic. It's all a balancing act, typically the higher the wattage, the bigger the tip, so you can get so big that it's impossible to touch ONLY the side of the rail - but too small means the heat has to be on for too long.
Keeping the tip clean is also very important for heat transfer. If the tip is corroded, again you will have to leave it on the joint too long to get the required heat, which makes everything else around the joint area heat up. The heat speed corrosion of the tip, this is why the tip of a soldering iron should be tinned, not left dry.

--Randy

[rolleiman]

4 things to remember in soldering feeders to track, I'm sure someone else touched on them but I didn't read all the replies thoroughly, sorry if this is repeatitive..

First, Clean your iron tip. A damp sponge is normally used for this. Using a rosin core solder (never use acid on train track for reasons mentioned) load the hot tip with solder and wipe it off. Before placing the iron in it's resting place load it up again. Constant loading and wiping of the tip keeps it in top condition and it'll last a (near) lifetime.

Second, Clean the area to be soldered to. At rail joints or feeder connection points, I find that a wire brush on a dremel works great. Nice and polished. Touch the iron to the area and touch the solder to the rail. If you have to wait too long or touch the iron to melt the solder, your area isn't clean and isn't conducting heat. Same is true when soldering rail jointers. Touch the iron to the jointer, and touch the solder to the end of the jointer. The idea is to draw the solder inside the jointer so it doesn't create a blob on top of it. Remember, that solder is drawn to heat.

Third, Tin the wire.. Touch the iron to the wire as well as the solder. It should only take a second or so to do this..

Lastly, touch the tinned wire to the tinned area on the rail and hit it with the heat. Again, it should only take a couple seconds..

I own one of the AB resistance rigs from Micro-Mart and while I'm sure it has it's uses, soldering track, in my experience, isn't one of them. As soon as the tips get coated with the flux from the solder (remember that the tip doesn't stay hot enough to keep it melted), it will no longer work. Resistance soldering depends on good electrical contact and if you can't make contact, it's more frustrating than it's worth.. Your better investment would be in a pencil 40 or 50 watt with a 1/8 or 3/16" chisel type tip. Get a couple extra tips..

Don't waste your time with small irons, tha faster you can get in there, apply the heat and get out, the better chance you have of a clean job without melting all your ties..

Good luck,
Jeff

QUOTE: Originally posted by warner brook

good morning
has anyone any experience with resistance soldering?i`ve been thinking of buying a resistance tool from micro mark,i`d like to hear of some opinions from others before i invest in one as they are kind of expensive.i`am not to good with a regular iron i seem to over do it.i tried both low and high wattage irons,my main ussage would be soldering ho track.[banghead].any help on this particular soldering iron would be appreciated.
thank you roy

[8D]

[mechengr]

Some Questions:

What methods are used to hold the section of track stationary while you solder?  (Soldering feeders torails on workbench). I have trouble keeping the section stationary when put the gun to the rail - I don't have the steadiest hands for this and I get rail and/or feeder movement.

I've read that some "clamp" the feeder to the rail while soldering. It seems to me that a clamp would be in the way of soldering. How, specifically. is this clamping done?

I just don't have enough hands to hold the gun, the solder and the feeder at the same time to solder.

I see where some use wet cotton balls for heat sinks. How are they positioned/held in place on the rail? Do you clamp them onto the rail

 

Certainly would appreciate some specifics on these areas.

 

[gmpullman]

I have had some experience with resistance soldering systems, and yes, they do a fine job but there's nothing all that advantagious about them. If you were doing a lot of production work I suppose it would be a handy tool but a good quality (Weller) iron is just fine for our occasional work.

Like Randy says, several different wattages for the type of work is important. Also for track feeders and rail joints be sure to have a very fine flux core solder. I use a 35 watt Weller with a fine, flat tip.

I would be afraid to use resistance soldering on track joints and feeders unless my command station, boosters and possibly locomotives were removed or disconnected from the layout.

I don't know for sure but do you think there would be a possibility of frying a decoder or booster if that amount of current were to accidentally make contact with the opposite rail??? Might not be worth the risk of that!

Any thoughts on this possibility???

ED

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I tried a resistance soldering system and didn't loke it very much. It tended to get the work area too hot. I went back to my 100W Weller soldering gun and have been using it ever since.

[tomikawaTT]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Don't use solder flux on electronics or track -- it is acid based and is not intended for such uses. Use resin core solder or purchase a bottle of resin flux. The acid flux in a can is for plumbing and uses other than electronics. It may work, but the joint will eventually corrode due to the acid in the flux.

Electronics grade rosin flux is also available in cans like shoe polish.

I've been using Burnley paste flux for thirty years with no corrosion issues.  It's rosin based, non-acid, and the can I have is about the size of a snuff can.

I prefer to apply flux separately, before heating the joint, then touch the solder to the work (not the gun or iron) after the work is heated to soldering temperature.  IMHO the flux core in ordinary rosin core wire-form solder is too little, too late.

Some of the soldered joints I operate over daily (or almost) have been in service since 1980 and have never given me any kind of trouble, so I must have done something right.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[larak]

What methods are used to hold the section of track stationary while you solder?  (Soldering feeders torails on workbench). I have trouble keeping the section stationary when put the gun to the rail - I don't have the steadiest hands for this and I get rail and/or feeder movement.

Well you can put the rail gently into a vise or place a weight on it (the part away from the solder joint), but I do it this way:

Bend a short right angled end onto the wire (1/8" long is OK)

Pre-tin the rail and the wire.

Touch wire firmly to rail with one hand (Hold it at least a foot away or you will burn your fingers). Hold hot, clean and tinned 35 watt iron in other hand and touch it to the wire/rail junction.

Solder should flow almost immediately. You usually won't need any extra.

Remove iron but keep holding the wire until the joint is solid.

Voila!

[tgindy]

I prefer to apply flux separately, before heating the joint, then touch the solder to the work (not the gun or iron) after the work is heated to soldering temperature.

 

I learned this great "flux first, heat second, then touch solder" technique many years ago with a stained glass hobby.  This helps to apply only the minimum of amount of solder necessary to complete your joint.

 

A second technique my wife's uncle taught me 30+ years ago, when we installed the hot water heat system, is to immediately wipe your completed solder joint with a wet cloth.  It is common for a plumber to have a water bucket to dip just-soldered joints, and to keep the joint-wiping rag wet. This helps to quickly cool the joint, clean the joint, as well as provide a cleaner finished appearance.

Warning:  Be careful not to burn fingers, as there is a sizzle when the water in the wet cloth competes with the hot soldered joint.  This is a just wringed-out wet cloth, and not a drying-out damp cloth, with a small water container/bucket nearby.

[FastTracks]

You might pick up a few tips from this....

Soldering Video

Tim