Block Control to DCC Question...!

[Anonymous]

hello everyone, i have a real dumb question...... i just purchased the NCE Power House Pro DCC system and got a big question... i have my layout wired for dual cab block mode, or common rail way, which ever its called. now i want to convert it to DCC and i dont know what to do. do i need to remove all of my old wire, or can it be left alone? do i need to get rid of all the insulated rail joiners, or are they ok? i am new to this DCC thing, but am really looking forward to trying it. any help or tips are greatly appreciated! thanks!
steve[:)]

[SteelMonsters]

With the exceptions of reverse loops, you simply need to wire one lead to the common, and the other lead to the other rail. It's really simple. You can do more complex things if you want block detectors to detect trains, or add circut breakers and/or more boosters to provide power to all areas except one that gets shorted. Reverse loops can be handled a number of ways.

Your current wiring may need some help in areas. If the DCC signal can't reach the train, it will retain it's settings untill it can. That can be a problem if you need the train to stop and it doesn't get the signal. Giant hands coming from the heavens is an unprototypical way to stop trains. :)

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by steve2435

do i need to remove all of my old wire, or can it be left alone? do i need to get rid of all the insulated rail joiners, or are they ok?

Hi Steve;

You can leave the insulated rail joiners in place, no probelm there.

The "best" way to do it is to run a 12 guage (some use 14 guage) two wire bus under the tracks on your layout. Connect the wires that you currently have attached to the insulate rails to this bus, preferrably keeping these "feeders" under 12" long. You should also add feeders to the common rail at approximately the same location as the feeders to the insulated rails.

For short circuit detection and protection while operating, you can splice a ~50W automotive tail light bulb into the feeders to the insulated sections, if you want . When there is a short in a particular section, the bulb will illuminate.

For reverse loops, you need to have a section of the loop longer than your longest locomotive (including tender if steam) with both rails isolated at both ends. A DCC autoreverse module is attached between the bus and this section. That is all there is to reverse loops (Y's are the same).

With a common rail system - DO NOT try to put the DCC system as one cab, and a DC throttle as the other cab. You can do this on double gapped systems (not common rail).

[Anonymous]

I once read someone in the same boat using a very simple short cut... Wire your DCC to CAB 1, and throw all of your cab control OPEN for CAB 1. Just don't change the switches, and REMOVE all DC power from the track. Now, reverse loops will get a little tricky. With Digitrax, you have to buy a power pack setup to handle automatic Reverse Loop.

As time goes by, you can remove the "cab control" switches and wire them directly to your bus, and as time moves on, you are in a better position to go back and add block detection for DCC.

But, in the meantime, if you just "wire in" DCC and remove your DC, you can run trains!

[SteelMonsters]

DCC and DC don't mix. You will destroy your booster and possibly the DC power supply also if connected. The NCE booster costs $60 for a replacement board.
http://www.ncedcc.com/service.html

There are several ways that they will meet resulting in damaged equipment.
1) direct connection on the rails
2) a insulated gap seperating DC and DCC and a loco runs over it
3) Poor wiring

It's better to go with all DC, or all DCC but not both for track power. Damaged equipment isn't worth any benefit of mixing the two. Only someone of very good electronics skills such as an electical engineer can use both without risking damage.

[Anonymous]

hey guys, thanks for all of your help. i was maybe considering removeing all wireing and track selectors from my current DC layout, and just starting from scratch for DCC, is this a good idea? do i need the selectors? or can i just do away with them and depend soley on my NCE Pro? im new to this and from what you guys say, i dont want to mess anything up. if this would be more simple, i would gladly remove the old wireing and track selectors.thanks again for all the help!

steve[:)]

[SteelMonsters]

In order to correctly evaluate your situation, we need a bit more information. Gauge wire and lenght for busses and feeder, how often feeders are placed? Are the joints soldered especially at the joints of wired and nonwired track? How many locos will you be running?

I think I made the point clear enough not to mix DC and DCC. Other than that, your booster is protected from shorts. Try it out. The track recieves full power all the time lighting up your headlights bright even when the loco is stopped. This can present problems if you add lights that have higher wattages than normal. A freind of mine did that melting the shell on one of his locos.

I like the comment made before on this site "with DCC you control the cabs, not the track." I like to consiter DCC 'wire and forget' on the topic of track power. If you want to compare it to DC, it's like running a single block for you whole layout.

[Anonymous]

steve,

mdent had the quickest approach for immediate running. To be safe, remove/disconnect ALL DC powerpacks from the layout. Then attach the new DCC power to CAB 1 (or CAB 2) and throw all the switches to that cab. You now have DCC power to all tracks. If you used power routing turnouts to turn power on and off to sidings you will need to add power feeds to these sidings and be sure that your turnout frogs don't create a short.

Over time you can strip all of the old wiring out and run a single feed for DCC. As the layour grows you can add additional power districts per the instructions of your DCC manufacturer.

[Anonymous]

hey guys, thanks again for the fast response. as far as my layout is concerned, its 8' x 12', kinda like an "L" shape. as far as the feeders, i have one for each block, which totaled around 20 blocks. they are soldered to the track and the feeders themselves are 22 gauge wire. i just recently added the second 4' x 8' addition on, right now its just a double main 4 x 8. i would really like to do away with all the other wires and controllors and such, but if you guys think i should leave them, i will. also, when i install decoders in my loco's, do i need to change the bulbs, or add higher wattage ones? just curious.anyway, im just wanting to do it the right way, thats why i trust you guys for advice and ideas. speaking of ideas....... anyone have any nice track plans for a 8 x 12 L shaped layout? thanks again for the information!
steve[:)]

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by steve2435

do i need to change the bulbs, or add higher wattage ones?

Hi Steve;

Except for the bulb question, all of your questions have been answered above by various people.

you do NOT want higher wattage (more heat) bulbs, unless you really want to melt your locomotive's shells. Ditto for any lighted passenger cars, etc. Soime decoders work with 1.5V bulbs, some don't. Some locomotives have voltage reduction circuitry that is not bypassed by the decoder (P2K is not one of those).

Call Tony's http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm after you read the Primer. Have a complete list of all of your locomotives that you want to install decoders in, they will provide you with specific information.

[Anonymous]

thanks nfmisso, you guys have been really helpful.
steve[:)]