I had several goals here not the least of which is to sell trains. In each case, I want to represent the strong points of each scale.
O scale: The details. Although I have a loop, I'm going to recommend this one not run and just sit at the station. At best it will chase it's tail and look weird.
N scale: Long trains, big scenery, small space. Here I will recommend what we see here, a double-headed coal drag with 20 cars. And PA oak forests are easy to make.
HO: Sound and details
Obviously the HO is set-up for switching and will give the customers supervised hands-on experience with something besides roundy rounders and have a good sounding loco like a PK2 0-6-0 or a BLI SW7. I'm looking to decorate the switching layout with some of those stylized mid-range priced high detail kits like Bar Mills, etc. to give the full impact of model railroading. A wood trestle is the end of the HO track on the right spanning both the N and O scale tracks.
The O and N will be separated by a 6" retaining wall and a 1" planted grade. N and HO will be separated by a rock face and 3" of N scale trees.
Whaddaya think?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I think come tomorrow morning, after the LHS sees your idea, you're going to be busy building the layout! Good design!
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
depending on the overall height of the layout, maybe consider doing scenery on the entire N and O section but have the HO switching section mounted on plexiglass supported by a series of concrete or stone peirs (which ever best fits into the era/scenery below/time and money budgets.)
Thinking the little ones would be able to see up thru the plexi, the taller customers would be exposed to the entire "below grade" scene INCLUDING the unseen workings of a switch machine in action.
Granted, the HO portion would be more detail exposed but this may be worth considering.
Just my thoughts.
Ken
The 4x8 is going to consume need display space for limitied benefit.
Why not consider track on or more shelfs up near the ceiling going around the shop? That woukld allow long runes and more action.
Have fun
lol here come the anti 4x8er's
I like the layout plan it looks like it would get peoples atention
I think we are to accept that Mouse has been given, and has in turn accepted the challenge for, terms of reference that are cast in concrete. It's gotta be a 4X8, and that is about his suggested design about which he would like feedback. Why not turn our creative thinking to the confines he has been given?
Chip, would it be useful to remind us of the parameters? Some folks looking into this discussion may not have seen your other introduction.
As I said elsewhere, I like what you have done. Simple, effective. I am intrigued by the plexiglass clear middle idea...has some merit, particularly if this is meant to be an educational tool in addition to a mere display or eye-catcher.
-Crandell
selector wrote:Chip, would it be useful to remind us of the parameters? Some folks looking into this discussion may not have seen your other introduction.
Texas Zepher wrote: selector wrote:Chip, would it be useful to remind us of the parameters? Some folks looking into this discussion may not have seen your other introduction.Yeah, why wasn't this just posted into that thread instead of starting a new one?
Sorry TZ, I thought I might get more exposure for comments than a post buried within another thread. Time was/is short.
Chip,
One possible answer for the O gauge loop. Hide more of it - enough to stage a train. Then put TWO trains on the loop, with a circuit that will start the staged train as the other leaves the station and enters the tunnel. The train coming out of staging will stop at the station. You might arrange a "push to start" button so the audience can control the action.
You might run an N scale train that's almost as long as the loop it's on, except for the front 'straightaway.' At prototype 40=-mph, it would seem to take forever to pass through the scene.
I like the HO having the most detail and the best spot - but then, I'm biased.
I'm not too sure about the Lexan surface idea. It's a really tricky material to work with, except for the one use you might really need to consider. A transparent screen would help to keep miniature 0-5-0s from making unauthorized 'adjustments.'
Just my .
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
You might want to make the N-scale loop less symetrical. The only "concern" I would have is people might see how cool the N-scale trains look, but then they get there set home and it doesn't look as cool on 9 3/4" curves that came with the set.
Are you going to have a shuffle circuit for the HO to have action, or are is the HO going to be static?
Texas Zepher wrote: You might want to make the N-scale loop less symetrical. The only "concern" I would have is people might see how cool the N-scale trains look, but then they get there set home and it doesn't look as cool on 9 3/4" curves that came with the set.Are you going to have a shuffle circuit for the HO to have action, or are is the HO going to be static?
Well part of the reason for the layouts is to show people the difference between toy trains and model railroads. They'll just have to buy some flex. The people won't be able to see both sides. The layout is in an aisle (the product part) with both ends blocked.
I'm not sure what you are asking about the HO. It is going to be DCC w/ sound. Won't move unless the customer is playing with it.
Chip is there anyway you could add a 18" and a 24" radius to the two tracks on the left side over the tunnels? If they could have a long enought arc then people could see the problems of trying to run a Big Boy or long cars on a 18" radius. It might make it easier to explain about the overhang and the operating limits of longer equipment.
Just a thought! Jim
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
SpaceMouse wrote:I'm not sure what you are asking about the HO.
It is going to be DCC w/ sound. Won't move unless the customer is playing with it.
MisterBeasley wrote:I suspect that the LHS owner will mostly want to run this in continuous-running mode, because he's not going to be able to spare someone to actually operate a switching layout. Sure, it's nice to see that sort of thing, but as a practical matter I would have the sound-equipped HO engines running all the time, even if it's only a loop, because they will be the biggest attraction. O-gauge should be running, too, not just static. It's the motion that will attract attention, not the modelling.
The Old Dog gets the feeling that Chip might be wise to go back to the requirements definition stage.
As stated immmediately, the LHS is going to need something that can be turned on in the morning, run all day with little attention, then turned off at night. That would probably imply a set of ovals to keep things moving.
Given it's small size, N-Scale might be hard for people to view at any distance. It might be better displayed as a "foot locker" layout in a display case.
Also, should the layout include tinplate as well as scale O-Scale? Could some G-Scale be worked in? Any traction? Street cars can run back a forth while looking normal. What about Bachmann On30?
SpaceMouse wrote: I had several goals here not the least of which is to sell trains. In each case, I want to represent the strong points of each scale.O scale: The details. Although I have a loop, I'm going to recommend this one not run and just sit at the station. At best it will chase it's tail and look weird. N scale: Long trains, big scenery, small space. Here I will recommend what we see here, a double-headed coal drag with 20 cars. And PA oak forests are easy to make. HO: Sound and detailsObviously the HO is set-up for switching and will give the customers supervised hands-on experience with something besides roundy rounders and have a good sounding loco like a PK2 0-6-0 or a BLI SW7. I'm looking to decorate the switching layout with some of those stylized mid-range priced high detail kits like Bar Mills, etc. to give the full impact of model railroading. A wood trestle is the end of the HO track on the right spanning both the N and O scale tracks. The O and N will be separated by a 6" retaining wall and a 1" planted grade. N and HO will be separated by a rock face and 3" of N scale trees.Whaddaya think?
I think it will promote HO over N and O scale, because that is the one that is " hands on ", and the others are not.
I'm not blaming you or accusing you of promoting one scale over another I am just very doubtful that a 4x8 will be able to give all 3 scales equal billing no matter what is done, unless you have 3 levels each of which is 4x8, to fully show the strengths of each scale - this can be done with O scale in this much room, this is how much room it takes for HO to do the same thing and this is how much room it takes N scale to do the same thing as HO and O.
Again just my
AP, It is what ever three rail Lionel is currently selling.
Greg,
Although you are problably right, the idea is to change the perception of toy trains to model railroading. Right now the owner has a toy train mentaility. It's for him as much as the customers.
Mr_Ash wrote: lol here come the anti 4x8er's I like the layout plan it looks like it would get peoples atention
I hate four by eight!
I much prefer 48x96 inches.
This project is not a work of art reproducing the real world in miniature, or an operational superpower. It is a sales tool. So if anyone has a problem with SALES, well stop buying stuff!
Strictly from a design perspective, having the largest on the outside, then the smallest then the intermnediate size in the middle (if I'm reading this right) is not good visual design.
Think of a garden - you don't put tall plants in front of really short plants with medium plants for a background.
So, I'd put the displayed scales in order. O on the outside (lowest) to N on the inside (highest) and it would also force the eye's perspective.
Disclaimer: My den would make a feng-shui consultant have a seizure...
It looks like it is a no go. The guy balked when I told him that it would take about $200 to get him up and two days to get him up an running at the level he is now with three circles of EZ track on sheet of plywood.
He liked the plan though. He was just really concerned that he needed th trains on display every day between now and Christmas.