My layout is a 10' x 16' with a main yard and a smaller one. If you have the room why would you have a Hidden Staging yard when you can make it part of the layout with scenery?
The first two reasons that I can think of are that the trains in the staging yard won't be acting like trains on the layout, they are hidden because they are 'running' someplace else. The second is that the configuration of the staging yard is likely not to be the layout of a working yard, as the purpose is different.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
If you can go all the way around the 10x16 space (big donut), you can do a twice-around but hide a chunk of one of the laps to make the staging area.
In the more modern era, open staging can work - there's a small yard near me that often has a complete train sitting in it, locos idling. And 2 or 3 other trains minus locos. But going back, you rarely if ever saw rows of trains waiting anywhere except maybe in a large passenger terminal. If you can ignore the sitting trains int he visible staging area while using other tracks for soemthign else, then by all means go for it. BTW, 'hidden' staging doesn't necessarily mean the track is under (or over) the rest of the layout, in the sense of hidden trackage in a tunnel. It's just hidden from the mainline portion of the railroad - such as in an adjancent room. It CAN be hidden under, or above, the rest of the layout, but if there is space in an adjacent room, it can be quite exposed but still 'hidden' from the mainline operators.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If one has a layout on the small side, trackage contributing to the overall appearance, theme, and operations of the track plan should be maximized since its available space is at a premium. This arguably gets more-so the more closely you model a prototypical setting or operation, again in a small space. As one foregoes proto ops and a real setting, one can be less rigid and deal with self-prescribed needs as one wishes...including having staging on the layout and visible.
One thing to keep in mind is that a yard, by any description or for any purpose, is going to command a huge footprint. The smaller the layout surface, the larger this footprint will be in a ratio of yard/other trackage, and similarly in the way of yard space/total surface area. Secondly, most of us can have one, but not the other. The smaller the layout, the more nearly goofy it would be, in my mind, to have two "yards" with one for switching ops and the other to park trains or to hold them in "transit". As stated earlier, the real purpose for staging is to "marshall" trains in an order and with a view to availability/retrievability so that they can enter on-stage once again to complete their journeys. Having them sit in full view, and then move to your other yard....well, do you see what I mean? So, ideally, staging is meant to be behind the curtains, out of sight, but accessible for fiddling and correction of faults. The actors who are meant to be visible on this stage are between the sets of curtains, not behind them...that is for staging.
Does that make sense?
selector wrote: If one has a layout on the small side, trackage contributing to the overall appearance, theme, and operations of the track plan should be maximized since its available space is at a premium. This arguably gets more-so the more closely you model a prototypical setting or operation, again in a small space. As one foregoes proto ops and a real setting, one can be less rigid and deal with self-prescribed needs as one wishes...including having staging on the layout and visible.
I think I understand what you mean by the bit I highlighted, but I thought I would emphasize the part in red. To me that means that you have to be careful not to try to just maximize trackage. Less can be more, so to speak. I think that this can be particularly true on a smaller layout, where I think 'cramming' more track in can actually emphasize the smallness of the layout. On the other hand, even a small amount of hidden trackage (staging or not) can help to make the layout seem larger, as the trains go 'somewhere', rather than go in circles. Staging lets them spend some time 'somewhere', and perhaps even make their return in a different enough form to let us beleive that they not only went somewhere, but actually served a function. If the objective is just to watch the trains go around, and admire the scenerey (and this is a perfectly valid desire, I am NOT saying that it is wrong), then hidden staging is much less relevant.
I would think hidden staging would have some drawbacks. If its in another room or around a partition, you have to walk around there to see what is the matter. Seems like in model railroading, something is always the matter.
Remember, it's mostly building. Well maybe someday it'll be mostly running.
I suppose if you have an audience you want to impress, like at shows and such hidden staging makes sense. I always want to see everything.
All depends on what you want, I guess.
pilot wrote: I would think hidden staging would have some drawbacks. If its in another room or around a partition, you have to walk around there to see what is the matter. Seems like in model railroading, something is always the matter. If that's the case we need to work harder to fix it. It isn't going to be any fun to run if we are always fixing.Remember, it's mostly building. Well maybe someday it'll be mostly running. I suppose if you have an audience you want to impress, like at shows and such hidden staging makes sense. I always want to see everything. Just a difference of desire here, I want the trains to go somewhere.All depends on what you want, I guess.
I would think hidden staging would have some drawbacks. If its in another room or around a partition, you have to walk around there to see what is the matter. Seems like in model railroading, something is always the matter. If that's the case we need to work harder to fix it. It isn't going to be any fun to run if we are always fixing.
I suppose if you have an audience you want to impress, like at shows and such hidden staging makes sense. I always want to see everything. Just a difference of desire here, I want the trains to go somewhere.
As you said, it depends on what you want. My first hope is that my operation will be reliable enough that I can stop and start a train on the other side of the partition. I may use a mirror or a little camera to see what's up, or just step around. Hard to say how things will ne be real life.
Secondly, I'm not really aiming to impress anyone (other than anyone who I can drag into the oven garage to see it. But, I want to be able to operate it at least comething like a railroad, and I don't want to feel like the trains are just going around and around. The staging I've designed is double ended, and is sort of a bypass to part of the layout, so I can bypass it if I want to. While I have though quite a bit about how the RR will operate I am sure I will be surprised by what really happens!
Right now I don't have a "ready to go" layout, so I can only speak of operating on one of my closest friends.
When it's just the two of us, the hidden staging between various towns and junctions allows us the ability to run the local trains and do the switch work in the various areas while the train would be travelling to it's destination on the prototype without just "parking it" in view on the layout.
We don't use a fast clock, but we usually try to keep within a respectable amount of time so that we can run a few thru-frieghts, run a couple of locals, do some switching of the industries, etc. The staging also helps us accomplish the "Empties in - Loads Out" or "Loads In - Empties Out" principal by giving us a place where we can make and break trains that came from far away places instead of just setting cars on the rail.
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Like others have said hidden staging represents destination/ origination points not modeled on the layout. It enables a model railroader to operate their railroad as if it is part of a larger system. It is one of the single most efficient and effective ways to expand the capacity for traffic on your layout.
As mentioned before 10x16 is AMPLE space to include staging if you take advantage of your vertical area a bit. The layout I'm designing is 12x14 and I'm planning for a 5 track double ended staging yard. I'll use a twice around main for the vertical seperation. In essence my layout will be a "nolix" with hidden staging. My body tracks and passing sidings will be 7' long.
Martin
"All the world's a stage" (ing yard, from which trains appear to do their thing on the visible, sceniced part of the layout. Once finished, they disappear to 'the rest of the world,' i.e., another staging yard.)
I am modeling a prototype that followed a winding river in the bottom of a valley that would qualify as a canyon in the American Southwest. An engine change point with minimal interchange and passenger station facilities pretty well fills the only reasonably wide spot on the route. Every day, well over a hundred trains are scheduled to run over some or all of this route. In order to get the proper 'actor' into view on cue, I need extensive hidden staging buried under the terrain, the "wings" and "dressing rooms" of the theater that is my layout. If more than 20% of my rolling stock is on visible track at the same time I will suffer a meltdown of Union Pacific proportions!
At my present point of construction, I have two yards and close to 80 feet of first main track. Another forty feet of main track and a seven train passenger yard are next on the construction list. Not one millimeter of that track will be visible! It all has to be in, operational and totally dependable before I cover it with scenery, a process which I would rather do right than fast.
Chuck (modeling the netherworld of Central Japan in September, 1964)
Try this article I wrote. I think it might answer your question.
What is Staging and Why do I need it?
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
What??? no mention of cheating?
Okay, it may not be a need for samll personal layouts, but certainly at my club we have the hidden stager so we have a palce to rail/derail trains while not distrupting or distracting the scenery. It's seperated by what's offically called a wall though, not just hidden.
But, if you're proud of your scenery, or you just want a place that's closer, having a seperated "yard" to put on and hide trains you wanna take with you somewhere later is quite handy.
-Morgan
Well hwolf, aren't you glad you asked.
What it boils do to is that are two types of model railroad track plans. The most common, from what I read on this foum, is a loop on a 4 x 8 board of plywood or foam. What you end up with, no matter how you run the track, is trains going around in crcles, unless you make it a point to point layout, which hardly any one does in such a small space. Trains leave to east and return to the west. It is a toy train layout, no matter how well ou scenic it. DUH!
You can effectively double the amount of layout area, and have trains leaving to the East and returning from the East, by using hidden multi track staging return loops UNDER it. The stage is your center of attention. It might be a division point where there is a passenger station, engine servicing facilities, a yard to make up trains for the local switcher. Passenger trains stop to board and detrain customers. Maybe some head end cars, an RPO, and some express cars, and a diner, or some pullmans that aren't need for the rest of the trip. This gives you something to do. That's where the fun is.
Through freights (from the West end staging), maybe coal or reefer blocks, just trundle on through to the other end of the line (the East end staging). A few times a day a local freight from either direction will pull into the yard arrival tacks, cut off the cars for delivery to local customers and pick up the empties and go on their way. The Yard switcher sorts them into blocks for the local switcher to deliver. He also makes up the outgoing blocks for the next Eastbound local freight to pick up.
Now you are operating as a prototype railroad does, not a toy train set. I'm sure you can see the differance. And you won't get bored with it.
hwolf wrote:My layout is a 10' x 16' with a main yard and a smaller one. If you have the room why would you have a Hidden Staging yard when you can make it part of the layout with scenery?
As many have said here it comes down to a number of key factors as to staging - hidden or otherwise: railroad theme and goals, space and operational interests. (BTW, read someplace that 10 x 16 is roughly the average size of a home layout). As an example, in my case - the Hawks Nest Branch of the C&O - space (10 x 10), emphasis on the branch and operational goal (model all the branchline trains plus enough mainline trains to make things interesting) - lead me to hidden through-style staging, offline 'interchange' to refresh cars and (gasp) no formal yard. I was a bit concerned with hidden turnouts, so by careful design the throats of the staging yard are fully acessible - and thank you DCC for simplifying the electrical side of this 'little giant' - and I've made sure the hidden track work is rock solid.
While the mainline trains are not anywhere near prototype length, they are so much larger than the branchline trains and any scene in which they are visible to make a nice impact. The branchline train lenghts on the otherhand are typical for what was run. Bottom line, for what I wanted to do it all works and without the staging it simply wouldn't.
Charles
Many early model railroads were built with a full yard with a roundhouse and turntable etc. at each end of the mainline. Modellers made up trains at one yard, ran trains along the mainline to the other yard (with stops on the way at stations or to serve industries) and then broke them down. The yards took up a lot of space - remember these were primarily O scale layouts!!
The idea of staging was to replace one or both yards with an area that represented "the rest of the world". For example, you could have one centrally located yard, with staging at either end of the mainline. Now instead of running trains between "Johnsonville" and "Smithtown" and their yards, you could have trains running from New York to Chicago, but passing thru "Johnsonville" yards on the way. Some trains would stop at the yard then continue on, some would change engines (if it was a division point yard you were modelling), and some trains would terminate and/or start at the yard.
To some folks, it takes away from that "rest of the world" illusion to be able to see the trains sitting there in staging, so they prefer to keep that part of the layout hidden from the main part, perhaps putting the staging tracks on a lower level under the main layout or in another room.
To other folks, having the staging tracks out in the open isn't a problem. They may choose to scenic the staging tracks to look like a regular RR yard.
Both ways are "OK", it just depends on what the builder(s) of the layout want to do.