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Progress on the Triple O

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Posted by BluPete on Friday, December 4, 2015 11:03 PM

regarding your PS, nice backhanded compliment from the CINCHOUSE. Now that upper management is on board with the project, pretty soon they will be either offering "suggestions" or just showing up with I thought this would be nice for the railroad, unexpected work orders. Keep up the updates, it gives me inspiration that these things can be started with a little CINCHOUSE approval and can grow to reality.

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Saturday, November 28, 2015 1:42 AM

Aloha & Happy Thanksgiving!

Progress has been slow, but steady.  Weather, family visits, and Thanksgiving delayed progress.  Photos will follow, but we are suffering serious internet issues. No pictures, sorry!  Here is what has transpired:

  1. Digging down.  The gorge is dug to about 4" deep per earlier suggestions, with a mix of concrete and rubble bringing its edge even to the edge of the top of the garden.  My father-in-law made some semi-scale timbers for cribbing for the bridge approaches when the digging is done and the finishing begins.
  2. Buidling up.  I am playing with my lava rock.  To make a really nice mountain, I am going to have to secure more.  Otherwise, I can make a low rise.  Fiddling has given me the chance to evaluate what I want to do, and I may shrink its base, make another "cut" in one face, run a siding, and, someday, maybe have a little industry with a crane or trestle lower to-be-determined raw materials to the siding below.  Lots of time to think as I look for free rock!
  3. Breaking out. CINCHOUSE has yet to deliver an opinion as to how the retaining wall post gorge "break out."

We have also made some minor progress in other fronts.

  1. Reliability.  Using a tip from this forum, we used vinegar and WD-40 on some rail joints.  This REALLY upped the speed from cold iron to operating!  My Christmas gift will come early in the form of 6 x 4' sections of track to reduce joints, provide short tracks for stub sidings, and hopefully further improve operations.  I will evaluate the impact, and then proceed with another bulk purchase or targeted rail clamps if required and when funds permit.
  2. Fun Factor.  Our guest train, the Bachmann Circus set, ran beautifully, and our friends enjoyed seeing it go.  Unfortunately, the afternoon concluded with, "Well, now it's going back in the box!"  No new hobbyist...My folks, meanwhile, got our kids the little LGB battery powered starter set, bringing it with them to deliver their early Christmas gift,  so the kids can run the railroad whenever they want with THEIR train.  For now, it is running in the office!  Oh, and my Dad really enjoyed "playing with trains," most of which went into deep storage for about 20 years in the '90s only to reemerge permanently this year.
  3. Emerging Purpose.  The kids and I are starting to discuss "what does the railroad do?"  While I doubt that the Triple O will ever shine in term of prototypical operations, these discussions are helping to shape how we landscape and where we will put future sidings.  Ever industrious, my father-in-law built a dock and semi-scale bait shop.  We now have an industry!

With luck, all hardscaping will be done by year's end.  If not, we are having fun!  Thanks as always for helping to keep me honest as we take a whim to a hobby!

 

Aloha,

Eric

 

P.S. I got a recent admission from CINCHOUSE.  "The only reason I let you start this project is that I thought you would never carry through! I am glad, however, that you did!"  Lucky me!

 

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Friday, November 6, 2015 8:34 PM

Nothing picture worthy this week, but my daughters did start to arrange remaining boulders around our gorge to form a second mountain.  While not the shape I would choose, I am letting them take the artistic lead on a not-to-interfere-with-operations basis.  We will not make much permanent progress next week, however, as I have family in town, who will see our efforts to date for the first time.

This weekend, the Triple O will also play host to a guest train.  My wife's friend's husband picked up a used Bachmann circus trainset, and we offered to let him give it a run.  Per a post elsewhere, we found that vinegar proved a useful solution for touchy track joints, so we hope to give him and his family a good show.  Who knows, maybe this will lead to a local co-hobbyist, too?

Enjoy your weekends!

Aloha,

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, October 26, 2015 11:27 PM

Aloha!

We made progress, excavating down to the first four inches of our canyon.  Based on the advice of a friend and licensed civil engineer, I cut the concrete mix 50/50 with some rubble (Coincidentally eliminating the rubble-bucket / mosquito-rookery along the way!) and some concrete dye, pouring in layers to about four inches back.  The colors are a bit light, but the effect is actually pretty good.  The results are below:

 

We can fix the colors with washes later.

We did optest the bridges, temporary and permanent, and they carry the weight of the trains just fine.  In the next picture, I left the trestle to show how much deeper I've yet to dig!  Uncharacteristically, the Triple O is actually running things that might have actually been seen together in real life:

 

 

Later runs proved that the temporary bridge can carry a train to the hibachi station loaded with a bottle of adult beverage, so construction passes the basic operation test and its economic value test!  Thanks again to Tom for detailing a basic method for maintaining operations while excavations commenced.

Progress will be slow over the Hallowe'en week.  This is giving me time to reflect the next steps:

  1. Building up.  I want to tie the gorge into the rest of the layout, so I plan to use my remaining lava rocks to give the impression everything is part of an ancient range.  I will concrete and rock up to the top of my gravel fill to serve as a cofferdam, too.
  2. Digging down.  I then need to finish excavating the gorge.  I may ladder it like a series of dry waterfalls.  Aesthetically, it will offer me more planting areas and I thinks some visual interest. Practically, I can guarantee I won't undermine my bridge abutments! I plan to use mortar mix and a 1"x1" block to etch in some "bricks" on the abutments, finish coloring the "rocks," and start planting.  My oldest daughter determined this would be an excellent site for a depot so people could visit the gorge, giving the Triple O future economic potential.
  3. Breaking out.  We will break the retainig wall where the canyon "terminates." This will help CINCHOUSE determine if I want to finish the retaining wall such that it implies an extension of the the landscape or such that it implies "real world ends here, garde RR begins now."

We have lots of other stuff to do in the interim:  replace 12" sections of track with longer sections; rail clamp trouble spots; green up the newly landscaped section; raise that sprinkler head; add some sidings; think about structures; etc.  While we obviously have a ways to go, I am pretty proud of what we have accomplished! 

 

Thanks for the continued support and guidance.  I will continue to pust updates and hang-ups as they emerge!

Aloha,
Eric

 

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, October 19, 2015 1:33 AM

Well, we cleared down to 4" today.  I relelveled and concreted in the future abutments.  I will see if they hold.  I am having a real trouble keeping back the to layer of fill, as it is all gravel and inherently unstable. 

 

Based on today's efforts, my plans going forward will be to break things into even smaller chunks to ensure I have at least 4" cleared down to the dirt fill.  I also plan to abandon any effort to texture the concrete walls beyond some coloring and, possibly, some pebble-sized concrete rubble in the concrete mix.

My biggest fear is accidentally underming upper levels as I excavate deeper into the bed.  I am guessing it is easier to use some concrete patches and paint to fix a bad look than it is to rebuild the entire canyon wall!

Have a good week!

 

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Saturday, October 17, 2015 12:55 AM
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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:09 PM

Rain...digging rescheduled for Wednesday!

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Thursday, October 8, 2015 2:13 AM

Tom,

 

Thanks for the rudder correction!  I did, indeed, intend to place a brick lengthwise.  Looks like a question in advance saved me a headache later.  I will reorient them and place them vertically as you suggest.

The trestle is about 16", so your recommended wall backing should hold.  After much consideration, I think I will use the broken concrete and save the lava rock for something where I can take the time and stack it to avoid large gaps.  I will experiment first to see if it will break into slabs, though, before I go either direction.

Looks like digging down is turning out to be a much harder project than building up!

 

Aloha,

Eric

 

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Posted by ttrigg on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 7:21 AM

I for one, would think that your lava rock would give a very nice texture. Bowling ball size stones not so much. If you have the time and energy I say break out the BIG hammar and chisel, Slabs are what I would advise, about the size of your hands, wrist to finge tips and about as thick. Flat slabs half to one inch thick would make an interesting canyon walls. If you must use lava stones try to keep them near the size of the end of your thumb else there will be entirely too much cement showing. Concrete chips when well placed woud look good as well. To strengthen the walls have a thought to digging out the canyon walls a couple inches wider. Use your fill material and some cement (no gravel, no sand) and mix up to form the backside of the canyon walls. This will also provide a good place to attach your canyon stones, be they lava or concrete. I may have missed the measurement of the canyon depth, but from looking at the timber trestle bridge I'm guessing the depth to be around 10~14 inches. A depth like that should be held in place nicely with a 3~4 inch cement and fill material wall plust the 3~4 inch stone placement, I would think you would be goog to go.

The bricks. Are you talking about standing bricks on end as your bridge abutments? If so, yes. If you are talking about placing lengthwise under the track before it gets to the bridge abutment, NO. Your fill material is brand spanking new, in geologic terms, and has not finished compacting itself in place. No matter how hard you tammped it into place it will settle more over time. I would expect that in 3~5 years you will notice your fill level has dropped by as much as an inch. Adding brick under the rails will add to your long term maintenance. You will, of course need to add some balast to the rails as the ground level next to the bridge abutments falls away. 

Tom Trigg

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Wednesday, October 7, 2015 2:32 AM

OK, mortar mix is on hand as are some concrete dyes.  I plan to make the first dig this weekend.  I just wanted to get some quick opinions:

  1. Should I forgo the lava rock?  The boulders are quite large (bowling ball size), and I am worried I will have a hard time concreting it in place as I dig down.  I have lots of small bits of concrete rubble that have a look of lava rock, take paint and washes well, and seem easier to work with.  Will using this material make it structurally sound?
  2. How thick should the layer of concrete / rubble be?
  3. I planned to sink some bricks to provide flat, solid foundations for the approach track and a smooth surface to etch "blocks" into later.  Is that advisable?  Or is is overkill?

I have located some scrap lumber to serve as a "bridge" until the gorge is deep enough to place the trestle. The truss bridge I plan to just sit on the proposed bricks.  I think I can make this project a "go" while maintaining operations!  If I can forgo the lava rocks, I can then repurpose them to help blend the mountain into the gorge or to make another small elevate feature.

Thanks as always for the guidance and suggestions!

 

Aloha,

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, October 5, 2015 12:05 AM

CINCHOUSE has spoken...A dry canyon it will be!  I had to work this weekend, so some sort of ground breaking should occur this week.

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 2:10 AM

Progress!

 

  1. Bridges and Family.  How I employ the trestle, whether to span a gorge or pond, is irrelevant to its creator, so long as he can claim all "cool points."  He has volunteered to craft approach tracks as required.  Maybe he'll show me how to do it, too.  SWMBO (Im stealing that! Big Smile) will return from a ladies' getaway and will render the verdict on whether th bridges will span a dry or wet feature.
  2. Quirky Operations. I found a roll of wire in my box-o-tracks and ran some to the backside of the inner loop after observing that trains, if they make it there, slow or stop.  This helped tremendously.  I still have some flaky joints, but now I have them pinpointed.  I just have to run the math to see if rail clamps or a few longer pieces of track are the most economical answer.
  • I am enjoying the fact that everytime I get stumped by one project, I can find another that needs doing, if not several, and many of them fit the 15-30 minute intervals I can afford to spend.
  • Aloha,
  • Eric
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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:03 AM

Tom, thanks again.  The family buy-in has been a major driver in this project.  I appreciate your understanding on the matter.

 

I took serious stock of my remaing lava rocks and positioned them in the approximate area of the gorge.  I even evaluated them for shading, as you suggested, to get that light to dark look.  I still have plenty of the broken concrete I used on the mountain project.  This would need staining in place, but that is no issue.  From a materials stand point, I think I am in a good place.

Rocks don't get up and run away, so I have time to confer with all parties to see if they want another little lily pond or a dry gorge as well as to discuss the approach spans with my father-in-law.  I'd hoped to start digging this weekend, but it seems some more research and consultation is in order.

 

In the meantime, I still have that sprinkler head to adjust...

 

Eric

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Posted by ttrigg on Friday, September 25, 2015 2:07 PM

Was not aware (I may have forgotten) that granddad was that involved. This adds a whole new light upon your sitituation. The through truss will be easy enough to put in place while you dig the gorge. The timber trestle is a different story. You may want to conference with him about construction of a pair of approach spans, if you two have not already.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Friday, September 25, 2015 3:24 AM

Tom,

Thanks so much again!  I will take your advice and take this in steps.  I am really reconsidering my options, and may push off as I deal with a really irritating electrical connectivity break in my tracks and tinker with a sprinkler head merrily blasting into the retaining wall.

Part of the issue is I have to backfit two bridges, a 19" truss bridge, and 16" long x 16" high trestle into the project.  My father-in-law, who is handy, has a woodshop, and possesses a really creative bent, made both early in the project but without informing me they were in the works.  I feel compelled to shoehorn them in to honor his intent, especially as I had never so much as poured a sack of concrete until he helped me get the Triple O over the hump.

Here's a photo to sort of orient you and the rest of the community:

The plan is (was?) to have a narrow gorge that began back by those potted plants and got progressively deeper until it hit the retaining wall (about where you see the leaf), possibly even right down to the yard by removing that section of the wall.  Originally, this was to have been a second pond (slap down some concretey, seal it, voila!), but that would hide the trestle and give the wet legs the life expectancy of a mayfly.

 

I have rejected taking the opposite approach and adding a small, elevated loop as that would ultimately lead to very brief and traject flight of whatever train had the misfortune to be on that loop.

 

At any rate, I am going to use the lava stones this weekend to mark off different options - gorge, pond, dry stream bed, whatever.  I am just grateful I got your warning before committing shovel to ground!

Eric

 

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Posted by ttrigg on Monday, September 21, 2015 8:25 PM

Eric

Do NOT try to "push" through the work in one day. Several times I have done that and not been completely satisfyed with the end project. Twice I ripped every thing out and started over.

In order to maintain operations while digging out the gorge, build the deckwork for your bridges first. From your local building supply store get some 3/8" square tube steel several inches longer that the bridge will become. Probably 3~4 inches longer than both ends of the bridge. Mount them under the bridge deck under the rails. This will support the track while you take your time to build the gorge. Once the gorge is complete build your bridge abutments and any desired intermediate supports. Then build any topside add-ons, walkway, truss assemblies, and the like. This was the way I built my 17 ft timber trestle bridge. After the street car was running I spent the next few weeks constructing the timber bents to place under the bridge. In my case I built each timber bent taller than the tallest one would end up being. When I started placing the timber bents it was under the supervision of SWMBO, trimming off the bottom of each bent to fit the location that she wanted. Always remember that SHE has a more estetic eye than you do.

In case you've not seen it before, SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed, CINCHOUSE.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, September 21, 2015 3:44 AM

Tom,

A belated "Thank You!"  I'll get a photo up this week to show the scope of the project.  Roughly, it'll be about 2 feet wide at the end of the gorge and 18 inches deep.  I eyeballed the length at 2-3 feet. 

I have to sort my remaining lava rock, all of which is the size of small bowling balls.  Off hand, however, I believe it to be of relatively uniform color. 

Currently, I am leaning to the first method you describe.  It seems it would meet one of my preferences, which is to maintain operations in between pushes to get the gorge gouged out!  I think I could probably do the second option in a dedicated Saturday, but those are few and far between.

- Eric

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Posted by ttrigg on Monday, September 14, 2015 2:49 PM

Eric

May I suggest that you start the digging process in the middle of the gorge, an area that will eventually end up "high in the air above the gorge." Dig down about 3~4 inches and experiment with different side slopes as you dig outward to the edges. When you reach the "edge of the gorge" with the 3~4 inch drop mix some of the spoils with a bit of cement or mortar mix and construct the face of the gorge for that step. Add some of you lava rock, thinest pieces first to finish that step. Then begin in the middle again for another 3~4 inch depth. Set the next layer of rock in place. You will eventually end with a step sided slope that will be firm and stable. The farther down you dig, lessen the steepness of the slope for that step. You will most likely want to chip away at the back side of all these "facing rocks", bag and save these chips for each layer, you will want them as rubble at the bottom of the gorge. If your rock have a varity of color then you may want to have color zones on the wall of the gorge with the darkest colors at the bottom. In real life, the lower you get the more rubble has fallen down the sides and the lesser the slope. At the bottom add the bagged chips with the darkest ones on the bottom of the gorge. You will probably want a section with a shear face wall, just undercut the rocks in place (they will stay in place by the mortar) and put the next layer under the existing rock to acheive the vertical face.

An alternative method: Dig to the depth you want and a bit wider. Build the gorge walls with rock and mortar with near shear walls facing into the gorge but with a somewhat pyrimid shape with a more gentle slope on the back side. then backfill to the gorge walls.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, September 14, 2015 1:50 AM

BluPete,

Glad to hear you are enjoying our progress! You might add "educational value" to your sales pitch, as the project has led the kids to some basic engineering solutions as they troubleshoot stalls and derailments!  Big Smile

Since my last post, I raided the box-o-tracks to add some sidings, as I want to add the concept of switching their play, whether it be Barbie dinner trains, lego transport, or grill-side beverage delivery.  Naturally, we have had torrential rains (Good for the basil, not so good for the newly planted sedum!), so proof of concept will come later.

Our next project is the gorge.  I have plent of left-over lava rocks, but I need to figure out how to excavate the gorge without risking the rest of the bed collapsing inward.  A cash diversion from the Triple O to the FORD FOCUS, however, has given me time to ponder this next step!  Pictures will follow as the project gets underway!

 

Aloha,
Eric

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Posted by BluPete on Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:33 PM

Love all the updates on the Triple O! I am in the first steps of building a GRR, trying to convince the Checkbook Holder that this is something to start now , not 5 years later when it will be harder to bend over. would love to try a raised roadbed , but too much mature landscaping and a pool prohibit that idea. Keep up the pictures and I hope more show their GRR here.

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:22 PM
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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Thursday, July 23, 2015 1:30 AM

We packed the dirt into all the spaces in the rock work yesterday.  Tomorrow, it is off to the nursery!

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:09 AM

Tom and Ray,

 

Thanks for the tips!  I used your advice today, our first opportunity to do some work since our summer travels.  We worked in small areas, letting each layer sort of set while we moved on to the next hole.  I still have some mortar that is a bit too red, but, by varying the dye amount, it did help with the looks. A few washes I I hope will tone things down. We will apply similar techniques when we make our next big push.  It is nice to have pressure from the family to amke spend more time on a hobby!  I have photos, and I will upload some shots of the progress when shortly (I hope!).

 

You'll note i use "we."  I continue to make sure that the kids are involved to the level they wish to participate, which helps get that family "buy-in."  It has led to some interesting pruning and a bit of extra clean-up, but that is OK.

More generally for those from Arizona who may stumble across this post, I wanted extend my thanks to the folks fo the Tucson Garden Railway Society for their demo railroad at the Tucson Botanical Gardends and the various clubs at Scottsdale's McCormick-Stillman RR Park.  Lots of inspiration for the clan!

 

Aloha,

Eric

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Posted by ttrigg on Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:18 PM

A quick add to Ray's advice. Keep the batches SMALL. When I was working on the stonework for my waterfall I used a dog food can as a scoop for the motar mix. Two scoops, a bit of die, a touch of water. This gave enough to place two stones. The slight variation in color in each area added to the believability of the color.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, June 28, 2015 10:31 PM

Thanks, Ray.  We'll take another crack at it using your suggestion.  Might be a week or so before we get the chance, though.

 

Eric

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Posted by Ray Dunakin on Saturday, June 27, 2015 11:16 PM

PVT Kanaka
How do I plug large holes between rocks?  I tried mortar, but it just ran and puddled.

 

Sorry I didn't see this sooner, but if your mortar is runny and puddling, it's too thin. Add more mix, less water. Be advised though that the thicker it is, the faster it will set, especially in hot weather.

 

 Visit www.raydunakin.com to see pics of the rugged and rocky In-ko-pah Railroad!
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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Saturday, June 27, 2015 9:11 PM

Taking a break after about 5 hours hauling lava rocks and gluing debris to concrete faces...

My father-in-law brought in a chipper that I used to shape some of the hollow tile and to remove straigh edges from non-loadbearing parts of the tunnel.  We added some wire to the one long flat face in hopes that this will facilitate covering it with stucco or concrete.  Those gaps in the rock where lava stone meets hollow tile, however, continue to stymie me.  Is there a foam I could inject into them?

I figure we are close to running a wash over everything, filling in the hollow areas with potting soil, and then adding some plants.  That will bring the hill to life and soften the remaining angles.  After that, I will clear the remaining construction material from back half of the dog bone and take a "pause" as we ponder the next step. That will include tinkering with the track plan (free) while we try to resolve an issue with our little pond (not so free) and solder a few rail joints (mostly free).  

I'll try to get pictures up when that flat face is covered in concrete and the whole is ready for a wash with some earthtones.

 

Aloha!

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 8:24 PM

Sorry for the delay.  We are making progress, but other hobbies, obligations, and weather did slow things down a bit.

We solved some of our issues as follows:

  1. We didn't try to stick rocks in places they wouldn's sit without rolling.
  2. We used more mortar.
  3. We used less dye.
  4. We switched masonry glues.  We also reserved it for the broken pieces of concrete we are hoping will camouflage some of the vertical surfaces.

Here are some of the results...

This is the "back face" of our mountain (above).  The mortar joints are obvious, but hopefully future washes will tone them down.  You can also see who we use the broken concrete to hide the hollow tile.  Our work train, my dummy 0-4-0T and the longest and tallest rollling, stock is entering the tunnel.  

This is the front face (above).  We stopped when the end of nap time brought eager, but less apt, "help" to our "assistance."  We'll pick up here when we make our next effort.

Of course, all progress came with a few stumpers.  The picture below shows some of my sticking points.

  1. How do I plug large holes between rocks?  I tried mortar, but it just ran and puddled.  I tried cementing concret bits, but it looked like, well, concrete bits shoved in a hole.
  2. How do I cover this hollow tile face?  I want this to look vaguely like a cut, so I've selected some rocks to put in the foreground (not the ones shown).  I am weighing stucco or something similar or more broken concrete slabs. I am leaning towards stucco for clearance reasons.

A couple weeks of slow to no progress are before us, so I have time to ponder the answers.

Aloha,

Eric

 

 

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