Battery Power...Let the Revolution begin!!! Large Scale users of the World Unite!!!

[Anonymous]

The Battery Power Manifesto!!!

Large Scale users of the World Unite!!! BATTERY POWER AS STANDARD!!! All you have to lose are your wires!!!

Seriously...

I think Battery power is the wave of the future for G guage, live steam might be the other option. With the environmental problems of track cleaning and electrical problems that, ironically, have been solved but provide for a cumbersome (at least in my opinion) operation. Battery power is a viable option.

I wi***hat the major manufacturers would make a standard battery platform or offer battery powered, or at least dual operation, locomotives. There would be a revolution.

Those of you that offer conversions are patriots!!!

Have at it!!!

[grandpopswalt]

Cappy,

I agree. Battery power is the only way to go. Problem is that it adds a fair amount of cost and as you point out, it adds a quite a bit of complexity, for now at least. It would be a simple matter for manufacturers to design and install a simple switch or jumper circuit which would make a locomotove battery/RC ready.

Walt

[BudSteinhoff]

Track power for ever.
Envirionmental problems with track power??Drywall paper/Scotchbrite?
How about battery disposal?
Battery power has its advantages but I have no problems with my track power/on-board receivers /track cleaning and I don't like the hassle of charging batteries.
Just turn the power on and run.
Bud[8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Cappy,

I agree. Battery power is the only way to go. Problem is that it adds a fair amount of cost and as you point out, it adds a quite a bit of complexity, for now at least. It would be a simple matter for manufacturers to design and install a simple switch or jumper circuit which would make a locomotove battery/RC ready.

Walt

Walt,

I think a "jumper" to a specially designed battery car with a switch...or as with my cell phone...the ability to recharge from the track. It wouldn't require more than a simple addition to a circuit in the tender somewhere.

Mass produced battery power would eventually come down in price.

There wouldn't have to be radical redesigns of current prototypes...but rather just that one extra wire to the battery chord. Those of you manufacturers who are reading this can have that idea for free!!!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BudSteinhoff

Track power for ever.
Envirionmental problems with track power??Drywall paper/Scotchbrite?
How about battery disposal?
Battery power has its advantages but I have no problems with my track power/on-board receivers /track cleaning and I don't like the hassle of charging batteries.
Just turn the power on and run.
Bud[8D]

Bud,

Don't get me wrong...track power will always have its place, but I think the battery option should be available. Battery tech has come along way thanks to cell phones and camcorders.

I guess its just a pipe dream for me, but I really think its time for the battery option to become a more availble option for the Large Scaler!

Capt Carrales

[TonyWalsham]

I agree that having battery ready mass produced locos would aid the revolution immensely.

As far seeing as AC have been with their way of being battery ready, the idea of having a connector hanging out the back (and front) hardly helps with putting everything on board.
Still, at least they do offer a track/battery switch on most locos. Which is more than any others do.

Bud has good success with track powering on board R/C, others don't have much success.

Installing battery R/C on board can get expensive but need not be so.

At least with self contained battery power the operators will NEVER have to clean track or maintain conductivity.
Given the recent discussion concerning mismatched holes in one brand of track joiners and how the recommendation from the manufacturer was to use clamps as well, those proposing to build outdoor RR's would do well to consider the all up cost of brass/SS track + clamps as compared to the cost of aluminium track.
I believe the latter will be significantly less expensive.

[Anonymous]

The beauty of the hobby is that nothing is really standard. Look at the diversity of scales, we all cry out for metal wheels yet there's nothing wrong with LGB's plastic ones, let's not even go down the knuckle coupling route! I use track power because it works for me, I can switch on in the shed and have a decent train running in a couple of minutes and not worry about charged batteries, saying that I always keep new batteries for the TE handset. I suspect that in the not to distant future long lasting batteries will be the size of a watch battery and then I'll look again.
Each to their own!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[John Busby]

Hi capt Carrales
Battery power not a problem if you like 1:19 scale
small industrial narrow gauge diesles or perhaps the real toby not the TTE one
or maybe the odd Aus narrow gauge..
But I am not aware of decent "G" scale US products of good quality and with propper controllers built in.
May be its time to head in to the school metal work shop and build a good quality
box cab for the N&MRR[:D] and show em how it's done
But be warned it will be heavy and need full on board control so you dont have to explain to SWMBO how it came to be in the kitchen without your helping hand[:)]
regards John

[whiterab]

Let's not do this. While I understand why there are people that really enjoy battery power, there are those of us who are quite happy with track power.

I would hate to see a flame war erupt on this forum as it has on other forums. Let's just keep it to "To each his own" and have a little respect for other people's decisions.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi capt Carrales
Battery power not a problem if you like 1:19 scale
small industrial narrow gauge diesles or perhaps the real toby not the TTE one
or maybe the odd Aus narrow gauge..
But I am not aware of decent "G" scale US products of good quality and with propper controllers built in.
May be its time to head in to the school metal work shop and build a good quality
box cab for the N&MRR[:D] and show em how it's done
But be warned it will be heavy and need full on board control so you dont have to explain to SWMBO how it came to be in the kitchen without your helping hand[:)]
regards John

There was a real railroad in South Texas, the Texas Mexican Railway, that was the first to Dieselize. They used Boxcabs for quite a long time. Its not beyond the realm of what is possible for the N&MRR.

Thanks,

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by whiterab

Let's not do this. While I understand why there are people that really enjoy battery power, there are those of us who are quite happy with track power.

I would hate to see a flame war erupt on this forum as it has on other forums. Let's just keep it to "To each his own" and have a little respect for other people's decisions.

Whiterab,

It was not my interntion to begin a war. I found myself pleased witht he limited battery and R/C battery contolled items and felt that that was a viable direction for the future. "To each his own" is an excellent idea. I do not condone the elimination of trackpower, but rather the more affordable option of "to each their own." Right now I would have to perform almost a "medical operation" on a locomotive to have what I desire.

That destroys the value of the locomotive and may result in 1) a disfigured appratus, 2) a possible fire due to amature electronics 3) a waste of time. If locomotives cane with this option...especially with a "battery power car" or battery tender that could be interchanged between track and battery power...then I think the Large scale would only be brodened...not limited.

We will keep it amicable, or I will erase (or have this thread erased.) I will, to promote amity and to respect your wishes, leave the "nuclear option" open on this thread.

Capt Carrales

[John Busby]

QUOTE: Originally posted by whiterab

Let's not do this. While I understand why there are people that really enjoy battery power, there are those of us who are quite happy with track power.

I would hate to see a flame war erupt on this forum as it has on other forums. Let's just keep it to "To each his own" and have a little respect for other people's decisions.

Hi wihterrab
Unlikely this forum seems more restrained than some and the moderators are quik to step in if necsasary..
I do however feel the manufacturers should take a serious look at battery power .
it irks me a bit that the 16mm scalers have it and good quality ones
and you look at "G" and the only stuff about can only be described as a load of rubish
LGB dont do one any more but that only had stop go fwd rev but no speed controle like some of the 16mm ones
regards John

[Anonymous]

Nothing wrong with a good blow up now and then but I don't think batteries -v- rail power will do it, unless there's a short somewhere!!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

I am in no hurry to make a change to battery power , because it's an added expence for me on a fixed income, being retired, i'll stick with track power. ben

[Anonymous]

I posted on another topic about this. I would advise anyone running track power to convert at least one loco to battery power. They are great for cleaning track. I converted a small loco and use it to push around the track cleaner car before each operating session. There isn't any "chase the car, give it a push when it stops, chase the car again, give it a push". I'm getting too stove up to want to do that! I just run it around the track a few times to start, and then everything else runs spiffy.
I included a DPDT switch so I can run the loco either track power or battery power. Next thing will be a circuit to charge the battery from the track.

[cacole]

After my experience trying to bury some irrigation piping in my back yard a few years ago and hitting veins of caliche about 2 inches down, I knew there was no way I would ever be able to lay wire for track power, so I planned from the get-go to use only battery power.

I have two Bachmann Spectrum 1:20.3 scale locomotives, a Consolidation and a Mogul, and a Heartland Locomotive Works Doozie Rail Bus, all with AirWire900 Wireless DCC receiver/decoder systems in them that run off of rechargeable 12-Volt Gel-Cell batteries.

In addition to avoiding the back-breaking chore of trying to dig trenches through rock-hard Arizona dirt, I also never have to worry about dirty track.

If I were to have used track power, I'd still be trying to dig ditches to lay the wire.

Other people in this area with back yard railroads use track power, but theirs are elevated or they hauled in tons of topsoil and filled in after the wire was put in place.

[Anonymous]

I have a 'thing' that I have converted to battery power.It's purpose is to clean the track.I can really see the point of battery power for other people but I just let the vehicles get on with it whilst I'm gardening.Things may change as I get older but at the moment track power is an endless running solution.
Around where I live,however,there seems to be an unhealthy addiction to steam,5" or big real ones.I just smile sweetly and point out that my model trams only require electricity.Something I'm extremely good at.

[Anonymous]

Joe mate;

in this instance I must disagree with you, in my opinion you are dead wrong.

Take this from someone who made a very good living for more than 20 years as a battery guru, they are an environmental disaster. I would also advise anyone if you don't really need a battery don't have one; like points (switches) they are a source of continued annoyance and aggravation. Did you know that their is only one place in the world where decent sized Ni Cads can be legaly disposed of its in Sweden and very exxy. Nickle is bad enough but the Cadmium is incredibly carcenagenic.

I now love my MTS and i really don't see how you could have anything else unless it is similar do all the wonderful things that you can do with MTS, which uses track power at full blast all the time. This includes hooking it up to a computer.


Sorry Joe but we disagree in this instance and i think you have been led astray by a group of ningnongs


Rgds ian

[grandpopswalt]

Weather one chooses track power or battery/RC is purely a matter of personal preference. Most folks are still using track power because that's what they're used to and possibly because it does require a considerable financial outlay to convert a fleet of locos to battery power. But you can't ignore the fact that the world is becoming more wireless and cordless every day. Consider cell phones, cordless phones, remote car starters, remote car locks and alarms to name just a few. And no one can deny the revolution that was started by the most obvious battery operated device of them all, the laptop computer,

The electric battery powered car is a reality today and will soon become a key component of our transportation system. Does it make sense to turn our backs on this new technology just because it seems "different" or doesn't seem natural not have a gas engine under the hood? Battery technology is improving daily. We now have reasonably priced nickle metal hydride batteries that are 2 to 3 times more efficient than Nicads. Lithium ion batteries will soon be competatively priced and offer up to 9 times the energy density of Nicads.

Battery power/RC control of LS trains seems to be the natural progression of the hobby because it just makes sense to embrace technology as it becomes available. Why not use inexpensive aluminum rail instead of brass or stainless? Why clean track if you don't have to? Why invest in expensive rail-clamps if you don't have to? Why run miles of control cable for turnouts when they can be controlled wirelessly?

It's my opinion that the good flying Captain is absolutely right, battery/RC is the way to go.

Walt

[TonyWalsham]

Ian,
I note that you seem to be justifying your MTS on environmental grounds. That is because NiCd batteries are toxic if disposed of incorrectly you feel track power is less an environmental problem.
Well, where do you think the power grid gets the electricty to power your MTS.

A power generating station that's where, and in Australia that means some of the most polluted power anywhere in the World.
When all our power is generated by renewable resources and no longer pollutes then I might consider agreeing with you.
In the meantime battery technology is forging ahead in leaps and bounds thanks to the demand for cordless living by our peoples.

Although Lithium technology is with us I am still a bit apprehensive to embrace it just yet for LS Trains. Every Lithium battery pack MUST have technology built in to control charge/discharge rates and minimum volts etc.
So far I have only seen AristoCraft offer such packs and they have only 21.6 volts which is way too high for most applications.
Also, even though NiMh has twice the density of NiCd often that density is unuseable such as with AA cells that have a current limiting choke built into most of them. Unlike Sub C NiC'ds which can give huge current for a short time, AA NiMh cells are designed to give a reasonable current for a long time. Usually no more tha 2 amps. They cannot handle current drain greater than they are designed for.
Typically NiCd cells have twice the number of recharge cycles available. 500 v 1,000 when charged correctly.

[markperr]

QUOTE: Did you know that their is only one place in the world where decent sized Ni Cads can be legaly disposed of its in Sweden and very exxy

Six billion people on this planet and only the Swedes have figured out a way to legally dispose of NiCad's?????????

Ian, I was born at night, but not LAST NIGHT!!

Give us a break.

Mark

[Slick]

Steam, the "Real" thing, closely followed by battery..... not a thing wrong with the track power folks but power on board sure takes care of track cleaning and the like. One way or the other, it's still trains.

[Anonymous]

Ian, I am sorry to hear that you disagree with the ideals of the revolution (watch out for hatchetmen in the bushes while you are in Mexico City...just kidding).

The ideals of the battery power revolution encompass new technologies for clean and advanced battery power. Maybe you can turn your electrical skill to creating a capacitor that can serve in the palce of a battery? Maybe metal plates in rolling stock that could store energy...solar power?

I must agree with the blokes that say RC self powered units are the logical next step. I will go even further and prefer live steam to battery. Live steam is too, like battery power, remains underdeveloped, and hopefully under-development.

The environment is a prime concern...We Americans of Texan persuasion don't wake up each morning thinking of ways to destroy the environment. I would say that there are more people, on the LEFT and RIGHT, that seek to improve technologies to provide for a safe envrionment and a viable economy (with room for scarcity issues and luxuries).

To make a long story short...I don't think we should enter politics into this issue, but rather stress the importance of advanced clean technologies....of which we turn our hopes over to the manufacturues who frequent this forum and others like it.

PAX VOBISCUM,
Capt Carrales

[grandpopswalt]

Lady and Gentlemen,

Beware of the Neoconservative propaganda bombarding you from the Right with unsubstantiated claims about track power’s superiority. Fight back, join BULL ( Battery Utilizing Largescale Locomtives ). To become a charter member of BULL, send me your name and address on the back of a $50 bill or foreign currency of equal value.

Remember, only BULL can keep this debate going.

Walt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Lady and Gentlemen,

Beware of the Neoconservative propaganda bombarding you from the Right with unsubstantiated claims about track power’s superiority. Fight back, join BULL ( Battery Utilizing Largescale Locomtives ). To become a charter member of BULL, send me your name and address on the back of a $50 bill or foreign currency of equal value.

Remember, only BULL can keep this debate going.

Walt

BULLy for YOU, Walt!!! This is really getting out there!!!

[Slick]

Grandpop Walt, my $50.00 is in the mail. I had'nt realized it, but I'm already a member (full) of Bull.

[grandpopswalt]

Slick1,

Congratulations! Welcome to the brotherhood. Remember our motto, "BULL .... it's what makes dirty track O.K.".

Walt

[Anonymous]

Sounds like it's getting deep around here!! [:D]