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Another terrifying in-cab accident

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Another terrifying in-cab accident
Posted by Railfan1 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:43 PM
"It's a great day to be alive" "Of all the words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these, It might have been......"
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:05 PM

WOW! That was incredible and saddening as well. Sigh [sigh] The shock factor in this being that it's a calm, quiet day with this train going to its destination. Everything appears perfectly normal right up until that locomotive rolls over the turnout and jerks towards the right. What a horrible feeling the crew must have felt in those few seconds.

Makes me respect locomotive crews even more for the hazards that they must face every time they're on duty.  

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Posted by Nagrom1 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:49 PM

I wonder if crews look forward and see which way the switch is thrown. That definately would have been a holly something moment for sure.

I find it interesting that the camera survived a few seconds, and you could see the train rolling through the first car or two.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:58 PM
I don't think that's real.
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Posted by steemtrayn on Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:17 PM

 Bucyrus wrote:
I don't think that's real.

 oh, it's real, alright.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/Accident_Investigation/2006/hq200679v.pdf

 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:47 PM
 steemtrayn wrote:

 Bucyrus wrote:
I don't think that's real.

 oh, it's real, alright.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/Accident_Investigation/2006/hq200679v.pdf

 

 

I mean the video.

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Posted by steemtrayn on Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:54 PM
Why would you think otherwise?
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Posted by coborn35 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:56 PM
This is one of the events that prompted our "Emergency Order" that went along with our GCOR, plus we had to add "SPAF" forms. (Switch Position Awareness Form)

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

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Posted by videomaker on Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:01 PM
 Railfan1 wrote:

How do these videos get out?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8C8TpVXhaDE&feature=related

 This is an old video from back in May or June,Its a dead horse !

Danny
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Posted by ericsp on Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:31 PM
 steemtrayn wrote:

 Bucyrus wrote:
I don't think that's real.

 oh, it's real, alright.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/Accident_Investigation/2006/hq200679v.pdf

 

 

The FRA form could not be from the same incident as the video. The report lists NDYX 475171 as the first car struck. In the video, the train hits an MLLX hopper. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:33 PM

 steemtrayn wrote:
Why would you think otherwise?

It just has that look of a simulation, although quite convincing.  Locomotives bounce all over the place as they travel.  How does a locomotive-mounted camera compensate for all that bounce 100% as is shown in this video?

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Posted by magicman710 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:41 PM
 Bucyrus wrote:

 steemtrayn wrote:
Why would you think otherwise?

It just has that look of a simulation, although quite convincing.  Locomotives bounce all over the place as they travel.  How does a locomotive-mounted camera compensate for all that bounce 100% as is shown in this video?

Locomotive in the Kimset wreck didnt bounce... And its confirmed real...

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Posted by coborn35 on Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:44 PM
If you watch the video you can tell its real....

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

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Posted by SW 1200 on Sunday, August 31, 2008 12:12 AM

Steemtrayn,

Thanks for posting the report. 

Glad to know that the crew came out of it alive with only minor injuries. 

TonyM.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:44 AM
 magicman710 wrote:
 Bucyrus wrote:

 steemtrayn wrote:
Why would you think otherwise?

It just has that look of a simulation, although quite convincing.  Locomotives bounce all over the place as they travel.  How does a locomotive-mounted camera compensate for all that bounce 100% as is shown in this video?

Locomotive in the Kimset wreck didnt bounce... And its confirmed real...

On second thought, I think it is real. 

Maybe the video equipment filters out the bounce by some kind of process averaging of the frames.  There is some bounce that can be seen in the Kimset video, although not as much as probably existed in the actual view.  Look at the relationship between the nose grab-iron and the track rail passing into it.  In a person's view, there would be lots of side-to-side and up and down differential movement between the grab-iron and the rail.  In the Kimset video, there is a little differential movement there.  In this video, there is none at all.  But it certainly looks real in every other way, so I conclude that it is real, and bounce has been removed, either in the camera or by post processing.  Certainly there would be a good reason to intentionally clean up the video by removing the bounce. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:26 AM
 Nagrom1 wrote:

I wonder if crews look forward and see which way the switch is thrown. That definately would have been a holly something moment for sure.

They did, a few seconds before the locomotive goes over the switch you can hear the brakes being thrown into emergency... Whoosh!

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Posted by coborn35 on Sunday, August 31, 2008 11:45 AM
 Nagrom1 wrote:

I wonder if crews look forward and see which way the switch is thrown. That definately would have been a holly something moment for sure.

I find it interesting that the camera survived a few seconds, and you could see the train rolling through the first car or two.

Correct. Crews can see the switch targets, but most importantly the switch points and call them out in the cab.

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

The Missabe Road: Safety First

 

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Sunday, August 31, 2008 12:26 PM
 ericsp wrote:
 steemtrayn wrote:

 Bucyrus wrote:
I don't think that's real.

 oh, it's real, alright.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/Accident_Investigation/2006/hq200679v.pdf

 

 

The FRA form could not be from the same incident as the video. The report lists NDYX 475171 as the first car struck. In the video, the train hits an MLLX hopper. 

Another discrepancy between the video and the report is that in the report the train continued for 500 feet before coming to a stop with the lead unit on its side.  If there had been no slowing at all, that would have taken 10 seconds, much longer than the video depicts. 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Sunday, August 31, 2008 12:42 PM
   WOW over $2 million worth of damadge. Was the crew that left the switch open fired or reprimanded?

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by alcodave on Sunday, August 31, 2008 1:58 PM
that video did kind of show me how easy it would be to let your mind start to drift while on on job. after almost three minutes of the view of the tracks ahead and not much else going on i kind of lost focus watching the video, next thing i know we are rolling thru a turnout towards some cars. its amazing that train crews can stay focused for so long. the early dusk light and the drone of the train seem like after working all day it would be easy to just relax and get too comfortable.
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, August 31, 2008 2:22 PM
Can someone (maybe RWM) explain why switch stands in dark territorys sometimes do not have targets. It might have reduced the severity of Graniteville, and this one. I would think the NTSB would have recommended this solution.
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Posted by edblysard on Sunday, August 31, 2008 6:45 PM

They should have targets...if one is missing, it was either stolen, or the bolts worked lose and it fell off...

Under normal use, the target should show if the switch is lined for other than main line movement...if you cant see a target, or the target you see is not red, (other colors used are green and sometimes yellow ) it is lined for the main...red means lined for the siding.

Some places still use a white target with an arrow, straight up means lines for the main, pointed to one side or the other means the siding.

 

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sunday, August 31, 2008 7:46 PM
The approved colors are red/green for mainline switches, for yard switches the colors are yellow/white. a track patrol  should repair the targets if their loose or missing. they are patrolling, not cruising for chicks.
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Posted by traisessive1 on Sunday, August 31, 2008 8:53 PM
Targets are Red/Green for mainline and Green/Yellow for non main track here in Canada.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by csxengineer98 on Monday, September 1, 2008 4:05 AM
 Bucyrus wrote:
 magicman710 wrote:
 Bucyrus wrote:

 steemtrayn wrote:
Why would you think otherwise?

It just has that look of a simulation, although quite convincing.  Locomotives bounce all over the place as they travel.  How does a locomotive-mounted camera compensate for all that bounce 100% as is shown in this video?

Locomotive in the Kimset wreck didnt bounce... And its confirmed real...

On second thought, I think it is real. 

Maybe the video equipment filters out the bounce by some kind of process averaging of the frames.  There is some bounce that can be seen in the Kimset video, although not as much as probably existed in the actual view.  Look at the relationship between the nose grab-iron and the track rail passing into it.  In a person's view, there would be lots of side-to-side and up and down differential movement between the grab-iron and the rail.  In the Kimset video, there is a little differential movement there.  In this video, there is none at all.  But it certainly looks real in every other way, so I conclude that it is real, and bounce has been removed, either in the camera or by post processing.  Certainly there would be a good reason to intentionally clean up the video by removing the bounce. 

wide body power dosnt bounce as much you think.. yes there is some movement but its not nearly what a beat up sd 40 will be like.. the suspention takes alot of abuse without transfureing the movements to the carbody and cab...unless the track or frog is REALY bad.. you heardly feel it at all going over it in a wide body...

csx engineer 

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Posted by csxengineer98 on Monday, September 1, 2008 4:20 AM

 blue streak 1 wrote:
Can someone (maybe RWM) explain why switch stands in dark territorys sometimes do not have targets. It might have reduced the severity of Graniteville, and this one. I would think the NTSB would have recommended this solution.
the switch might be removed from service...but was never removed.. cheeper to just spike the points and lock with a tag on the handel..the target could fall off in time due to any number of reasons.. as far as the switch points and targets from other posters above.. in a perfict world we crews would be able to see if the switch target or points are lined for us well in advance..but lot of times we cant.. so when running at speed.. even if you do see its wrong..you wont have alot of time to react to get stopped.. a great case in point is this video.. by the time the crew saw it..it was to late.. seconds from seeing it to impact.. not much time to do anything but dump it..hold on..and pray you make it out of the wreck alive and not to badly hurt... issues like this wreck are the main reason for the FRA emergancy order that came out some years ago regarding dark territory switches..

things like this might still happen from time to time.. but the FRA order and the new work rules that came out of it are designed to add more levels of checks befor a train leaves a place they worked in dark territory to insure the switch is lined back for the main track..

csx engineer 

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, September 1, 2008 11:44 AM
 Bucyrus wrote:

 steemtrayn wrote:
Why would you think otherwise?

It just has that look of a simulation, although quite convincing.  Locomotives bounce all over the place as they travel.  How does a locomotive-mounted camera compensate for all that bounce 100% as is shown in this video?

Bucyrus,

CSXEngineer brought up a good point regarding the riding qualities of the modern wide-cabs.

Additionally, many video cameras today, even the cheaper models, are available with the anti-motion feature that, while not perfect, helps eliminate most of the unwanted motions when the camera is pointed in just one direction. 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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