One last thought:
put it on the track and give it a push !
Yes, I'm serious. Sometimes these trains have not run in so long, they want to roll over, and go back to sleep. I was remembering the last time I had this problem.
I bought a 1688e at an antique store. The E-unit had bent and mangled fingers. I bypassed the E-unit, the way you are doing. (the field and armature are in reversed position in that circuit). I cleaned the brushes, and commutator. Put it on the track, and
buzzz
no love.
Gave it a nudge, and it twitched a little. Kept after it, and ,bit by bit, it awakened from it's slumber !
Today that engine has new brushes, a rebuilt E-unit, and I have to be real careful not to launch it off the curves.
I still think we are close to getting your train going !
Paul
Never panic ! I have this a couple of times reviving old trains, and it started with buzzing. Both are running happily now.
The buzzing is the motor is halfway working. Maybe the field coil is energized, but not the armature, or vice versa.
you do say it turns easily by hand ?
Can you send a picture of how you have it wired now ? And check these points for continuity:
1. Pickup shoe to brush it is wired to
2. Brush to brush
3. The second brush(the one wired to field coil) to frame
4. The end of the field coil wire to frame
and when I say "brush", I mean just the terminal the wire is hooked to
I'm not sure I understand where you probed; but remember that the field winding is insulated with lacquer. Usually, only enough of the ends of the coil wire have the lacquer scraped off so that connections can be made.
Bob Nelson
The motor does not appear to want to go. I still get the buzzing.
For giggles, I checked the continuity of the wires I used to jump the connections. The Jump wire was fine and my connections at the brushes was fine, but when I moved the probe further up the connection to either the wire coming from the field coil or wire coming from the pick-up plate, I could not get continuity.
What this means, I do not know.
C
I apologize. I probably did not make it clear enough in my verbal instructions to bypass. You need to connect your white wire from the brush to the field coil wire that used to go to the E-unit. The other end of the field coil is ALREADY attached to frame ground.
Thanks to cwburfle and his sharp eyes for spotting that.
paul
I looked at your video again. You have motor buzzing noise, good sign. Hopefully connecting the white wire to the field coil wire , the one that is currently through the hole in the frame, will complete the circuit.
Hope it is going well. I am tinkering today, too.
Good catch ! I think you are correct.
The place on the field where you attached the white wire (from the brushplate) is usually mechanically grounded. Try disconnecting the white wire from that location, and attach it to the field wire you wrapped around the the hole. (remove the wire from the hole first)
So I THINK I wired it the way you suggested Paul:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105547860@N03/31356274243/in/dateposted/
I think one end of the field coil is attached up through the top (one end of the white wire), and the other comes out the back (I wrapped it around a hole in the frame). I also attached the black wire coming up from underneath (the track contact, I hope) to one of the brushes. Still no go.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105547860@N03/32048257271/in/dateposted/
Good thing there's a big train show coming up in Springfield...
Here we go...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105547860@N03/31791088700/in/dateposted/
You know, the more I think about this, I feel that the goal is to help someone new in the hobby. I think there are a lot of shortcuts we all learn as we become more comfortable with these circuits. That will come in time. I feel it would be better to advise a newcomer to wire the motor EXACTLY as pictured in the first diagram, to avoid any confusion.
Thanks, Bob.
looking at the circuit diagram, I can see that it could be done that way as well. There is usually more than one way to accomplish a task.
Chris,
whichever approach you choose is up to you, and your comfort level.
Do you have a soldering iron ?
There is a terminal on the e-unit's wiring board that connects together the pickup, the e-unit coil, and some of the e-unit fingers. If, in addition to disconnecting the brushes, you disconnect the e-unit fingers from that terminal, you do not have to cut (or otherwise open-circuit) the wire between the fingers and the field coil.
However, there is almost no chance that the e-unit could have failed in a way that would make removing that third wire or cutting the field wire necessary. I would first try to run the motor with just the brushes disconnected and rewired in series.
There is, of course, no harm in marking the brush wires when you disconnect them from the brushes, but no need to do that either. (In its normal operation, the e-unit itself swaps those two wires every two steps of its drum.)
And...
you can remove wires at the terminal at the side of the E-unit. But do not remove the wires coming from the fingers at the fingers. Instead, remove them from the brush end. One wire from the fingers will go to the field coil. You will need to cut this someplace with enough wire to splice onto for your test, and to reconnect later. Leave enough wire to work with.
Hi Chris,
I would recommend disconnecting the E-unit, to test the motor by itself. We need to determine if the problem is in the motor, or E-unit. If the motor runs after bypassing, then the E-unit is bad. If it doesn't run, we need to find out what is wrong in the motor. You can mark, and label each wire you remove, and make a drawing to show where it goes. Maybe put a piece of tape on each wire you remove with a number or letter marking.
This is a necessary step. Do you have a soldering iron?
"While it is possible to bypass a functioning e-unit without removing those two wires, by rotating the e-unit drum to one of its neutral positions, you don't know yet whether your e-unit is functional. Later, when you reconnect those wires, it doesn't matter which goes where."
Many thanks for all the advice and diagrams.
Will I defeat the purpose if, rather than removing the old wires, I merely use wire to bypass the e-unit? I was thinking of attaching jumper wire to the various connection points without removing the old ones.
Again, thanks to all for pitching in.
Chris
Nice visuals, guys ! That was what I was trying to describe in words.
Chris, for now focus on the simplified circuit to test your motor. The other diagram will help to put the E-unit back in. And as Lionelsoni said, you will want the E-unit disconnected. Only this simple motor circuit.
Here is the as-built wiring diagram:
Rob
I suggest that you remove the existing wires from the brushes for the test.
While it is possible to bypass a functioning e-unit without removing those two wires, by rotating the e-unit drum to one of its neutral positions, you don't know yet whether your e-unit is functional. Later, when you reconnect those wires, it doesn't matter which goes where.
NorthEastChrisHow do I wire in series and not parallel? Anyone have a diagram?
Switch the brush connections to run in the opposite direction.
you can Google, and get a world of info,including wiring diagrams. I see your E-unit solenoid is working. You are getting down to the point where you will somehow need to determine that your motor is functioning. I suspect it is, and I suspect it will be your E-unit, since the circuit runs back through there twice. You can bypass the E-unit for now, and get the wiring diagram later when you are ready to build it back in.
To bypass:
1. Take the wire coming from the pick up collector plate, and connect this to one of the motor brushes.
2. Run a wire from the other brush to the wire that goes into the field coil.
3. The other end of the field coil should go to frame ground. This will put you in "series".
put 'her on the track , and fire it up.
It should start to run in one direction.
If this is successful, you can send the E-unit to be rebuilt.
Great job on getting those wheels back on!
Good Luck!
let us know...
The brushes, buckets, springs and motor have all been cleaned. The drum has been cleaned, and I saw two "fingers" at the bottom of the e-unit I could get a toothpick under. There are four others that I'll be darned if I can get to. I used a dental pick with a 90 degree bend to get something under there.
Half the drum cleaned, the other half what I started with:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105547860@N03/31300407773/
Still getting the same thing:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105547860@N03/31962189692/
I'm a little queasy of disconnecting wires, but that may be the next step. How do I wire in series and not parallel? Anyone have a diagram?
Also, the E-unit needs to be touching the frame for the solenoid to pull. Mount the E-unit first in the frame, and try it.
Sorry, I am Fat Fingering this new I pad mini.
Sorry to repeat myself more than normal
Hello again,
it sounds promising that the motor is trying to turn. Try cleaning the E-unit drum. Use a Q-tip, and alcohol, and advance the drum one notch at a time, cleaning very carefully a small area, and using the pawl to advance to the next notch. Have you cleaned the brushes, brush w Ellis, and commutator yet ?
Hello Again,
that's a very good sign that the motor is trying to turn. one possibility could be dirty contacts at the drum, and E-unit fingers. You could try cleaning the E-unit drum, very carefully with a Q-tip, and alcohol. Advance the pawl, and clean a small spot at a time. Have you already cleaned the brushes, brush wells, and commutator ?
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