The 16543 New York Central non-illuminated SP-type caboose was produced in ’93 & ’94 in the 4 window body version and ’95 – ’99 in the two window body version. In came in the 11735 NYC Flyer set (’93 –’99) and the 11832 (U’97), 11978 (U’98), and 21932 (U’99) JC Penny NYC Flyer sets. While it had a BLT Date, it didn’t have a road number on the body. Like the 16636 C&O caboose, it is somewhat puzzling when the car number wasn’t changed in ’95 with the substantial body mode change.
Have fun collecting cheap classics………………………
Papa D
The 16536 Chessie System C&O non-illuminated SP-type caboose was produced in ’92, ’93(U), ’94, ’96(U) and ’97 – ’99 in different body colors and styles. The only one that falls within the “Cheap Classic” criteria is the yellow 4 window body with dark blue graphics. In was part of the 11727 Costal Limited (’92), 11742 Coastal Limit (‘93U), and 11746 Seaboard Freight (’94) sets.
A somewhat rare brown 4 window body with yellow graphics came in some of the 11742 Costal Limited (‘93U) sets. While I’ve not come across this variation, the premium price it commands and the fact it only came in a uncataloged set excludes it from “cheap classic” list.
A red 2 window body with white graphics 16536 Caboose came in the 11915 Seaboard (96U) and 11915 Chessie Flyer (97 – 99) sets, which are beyond the end of the LTI era. Why the body color change from yellow to red is baffling. It is worth noting that LTI change the SP-type caboose body mold in ’95. The number of side windows was reduced from 4 to 2. In addition, the body and frame were made into a single molded piece with the roof removable. It’s a better design with the drawback that it eliminates the easy inter-changeability of the trucks. I would have thought that with the body color and mold changes the road number would also have been changed. Kind of a throwback to the early MPC days.
Sometimes the Blt. date on special run cars would differ from the release date as well. In one case the TTOS GT flat car had to be rerun because TTOS wanted the dates to match.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
The 16530 Mickey’s World Tour ’92 non-illuminated SP-type caboose was part of the 11721 Mickey’s World Tour set produced only in ’91. In addition to the road number there is also a large“1001” with a much smaller “HELLOS!” below. It is often listed under the 1001 number instead of the 11721 road number. It’s a mystery to me why it has a BLT date of ’91 and a World Tour date of ’92. I guess there is some logic there somewhere.
The 16529 ATSF non-illuminated SP-type caboose was part of the 11721 Santa Fe Special set produced only in ’91. This set also included the 16227 Santa Fe short box car and the somewhat hard to find 16114 Hooker short single dome tank car. Very simple graphics, the “Plain Jane” of my caboose cheap classics. Somewhat unique is the road number (16829) on the body is different than the listing number (16529) which makes searching for this car a little more difficult.
The 16505 Wabash non-illuminated SP-type caboose was produced from ’88 to ‘91 as part of the 11703 Iron Horse Freight set. It’s the third and last Wabash caboose on my Cheap Classic list. Somewhat surprising, it is not as good looking as the previous two produced during the MPC era, although the are trucks attached by metal rivets, it has operating couplers at both ends and metal wheels which is a big plus over what was used during much of the MPC era.
Great job! Looks better than the original 16505 Wabash caboose. How did you acquire extra MPC pick-ups, wish I had a few. Funny, I'm just in the process of posting the next Cheap Classic on my list which happens to be the 16505.
Here's how I got a Wabash caboose from stock to Giraffe Express trim in about 12 hours:
http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/from-wabash-to-gi-raffe-painting-and-lighting-an-mpc-caboose-in-12-hours-flat
The plastic snap rivet used to attach a car frame/body to the trucks for some low end rolling stock is shown below. From an assembly point of view, it was a labor saver compared to setting a metal rivet. I’d guess it cut the labor cost for this manufacturing operation at least in half.
Unfortunately, it resulted in a loose fit between the car body and the truck because it is just an interference at one point around the hole circumference. I’ve tried to show this in the below photo.
It didn't seems to having any effect on function, i.e. cause derailments, at least on my O-27 layout running trains with generally with 4 to 6 cars. It did make rolling stock which used these rivets feel cheap. A lot of folks replaced them with an 8-32 screw with locking nut. Being an engineer (now retired), I found this approach less than satisfying. As a result, I invested some money and considerable time in developing a metal rivet replacement process.
A little research found the correct metal rivet; a 566-16. They can be bought from most Lionel train part dealers or on eBay. A 100 costs about $15. When determining the quantity needed, don’t forget to include about a dozen to develop the process. These rivets are pretty sturdy, so it didn’t take long to realize I was going to need an arbor press and clincher to form the rolled rivet head. I found the Lionel replica arbor press (HH-1000) too expensive for the limited use I’d get out of it. Instead I picked up a simple ½ ton arbor press for about $60.
Selecting a clincher was relatively straight forward. If the clincher dimple is too large or small, then the rivet will crush before the roll is formed. The 566-16 opening is ~0.088”. I selected a clincher with a 0.125” dimple (ST-350-11 also identified as a STX-360-11 or #1). In retrospect, the 0.140” dimple (ST-350-12 also identified as STX-360-12 or #2) might have been a slightly better choice.
A little experimenting was needed to get the correct stop setting on the arbor press to get just the right amount of roll forming.
Further practice was needed to develop the skill required to make sure the clincher, rivet and anvil remained concentric and vertical during pressing. After going through about a dozen practice rivets, I started with boxcars, tank cars and cabooses because they could be done with just the frame and trucks. Hopper cars and gondolas were a little more difficult and required a longer anvil which I made out of a bolt as shown in the arbor press photo. Overall, I’ve done more than 3 dozen pieces of rolling stock and been happy with the result. It’s close enough to the “factory” that it’s difficult for me now to distinguish which is which.
For me this was also part of the fun of collecting, operating, and maintaining Lionel trains.
The plastic rivet did make for a sloppy truck mount, but it sure made making changes easy. I never had the right tools for metal rivets so the plastic ones were nice in that regard but did make the cars look cheap.
When MPC began producing Lionel trains in '70, cutting cost even a penny or two was everything. The introduction of the plastic snap rivet to attach the trucks to the car body was one of these measures. It produced a somewhat looser attachment that didn't effect function but felt "cheap". MPC also started using plastic wheels on low end cars around the same time. This did effect function since it reduced the car weight and raised its center of gravity. When LTI took over Lionel train production in '86, one of the first things they did was eliminate the use of the plastic snap rivet and plastic wheels. I'll post photos next week.
Papa_D....The '86 catalog was published by "Lionel Trains Division of Kenner Parker Toys, Inc." with the transition to LTI completed in the spring of that year. Gone were the plastic snap rivets holding on the trucks and the plastic wheels........ Papa D
Do you have pics of the plastic snap rivets and the metal (I presume) ones to compare? When was the switch made, and when was the switch back?
The 6921 Pennsylvania RR non-illuminated SP-type caboose was produced from ’86 to ‘90 as part of the 1615 Cannonball Express set. It has the distinction of bearing the last MPC road number. Going forward LTI updated to the 165xx series.
Sir James, I agree. The Redwood Express Caboose above actually came with window insert and illumination up-grades. I swapped out these up-grades with my 6918 B&O Caboose. In the process, I also replaced the pick-up roller wiring and switched the lightbulb to a 5mm “Warm White” LED from Evan Designs. It’s rated 7-19 V AC or DC
Here is the end result.
All-in-all, the $13.50 I paid for the Redwood Express Caboose was a pretty good deal.
The 6918 B&O is nice enough to upgrade.
Papa_DNext up is the 6912 Redwood Valley Express non-illuminated SP-type caboose produced in ’84 & ’85 as part of the entry level 1403 Redwood Valley Express set. I believe this is one of the sets produced in the Tijuana, Mexico facility which might explain why it has no car number or Blt date. Unfortunately, I’ve not been able to find one of these cabooses at “cheap classic” price, so this is just a place holder until I do.
In collecting patiences pays off as I recently bought one for $6.50 plus $7.00 shipping.
The Nickel Plate Road non-illuminated SP-type caboose was first produced in ’86 as part of 1602 Nickel Plate Special set. Production of this set continued through ’91 making it an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price. The ’86 production came with a coupler at only one end. Later production by LTI had couplers at both ends and cast metal wheels. Interestingly the graphics of the 9060 Nickel Plate Road caboose produced from ’70 to ’72 wasn’t reused.
Next up is the 6912 Redwood Valley Express non-illuminated SP-type caboose produced in ’84 & ’85 as part of the entry level 1403 Redwood Valley Express set. I believe this is one of the sets produced in the Tijuana, Mexico facility which might explain why it has no car number or Blt date. Unfortunately, I’ve not been able to find one of these cabooses at “cheap classic” price, so this is just a place holder until I do.
The 6912 was followed by the 6918 B&O non-illuminated SP-type caboose produced in ’86 as part of the 1652 B&O Freight set. The '86 catalog was published by "Lionel Trains Division of Kenner Parker Toys, Inc." with the transition to LTI completed in the spring of that year. Gone were the plastic snap rivets holding on the trucks and the plastic wheels.
This is my favorite. It matches exactly my LionChief Plus 9555 B&O NW2 Switcher I recently bought (which I will soon write about in a different post).
The 6486 Southern was followed by the 6485 Chessie System produced in ’84 & ’85 as part of the 1402 Chessie System set. Again what’s with the non-sequential numbering? Perhaps it was all the turmoil Lionel (MPC) was going through at the time. In mid ’83 MPC (Fundimensions) made the horrible decision to move all production to a facility in Tijuana, Mexico. Making the transition even more difficult was the loss of key production personnel who left rather than relocate. The ’84 production year was a disaster with delivery schedules missed and quality very spotty. Production then returned to Mt. Clemens in ’85 the same year General Mills spun-off Kenner-Parker Toys which included Lionel (MPC). Kenner-Parker Toys had no interest in the toy train business and quick spun-off Lionel (MPC) to Richard Kughn in early ’86 resulting in the formation of LTI.
Next up is the 6486 Southern which was part of the 1353 Southern Streak set produced from ’83 to ’85. The ’84 & ’85 production came with window inserts. A nice looking caboose that I found somewhat hard to find.
If I strictly followed my criteria, this post should feature the 6478 Black Cave Flyer SP-type non-illuminated caboose. It has a plan red body, no number or BLT date, and a Black Cave Flyer decal installed by the owner. The lack of a car number and decals that curl-up over time just discourages me from acquiring one. If someone wants to provide a photo of one, have at it.
So with that out of the way, next on my list is the 6430 Santa Fe. Don’t quite understand how 6430 follows 6432, but it did. It was produced with an operating coupler at just one end from ’83 to ’86, and then during the LTI era with operating couplers at both ends through ’89. It was in the 1352 Rocky Mountain Freight set and one of the Rolling Stock Assortment from ’86 to ’89 making it an easy piece of rolling stock to find at a cheap classic price.
Numbering jumped back to the 6000’s for the SP-type non-illuminated cabooses after the 9381 starting with the 6432 Union Pacific. It was part of the Union Pacific Thunder Freight produced in ’81 & ’82. A nice looking piece of rolling stock with its 4-color graphics and 2-color body.
The 9381 Chessie System SP-type caboose was produced only in ’80 as part of the 1052 Chesapeake Flyer set. Another one with no “BLT” date. It can be found in the tall & short copula window body styles. As has been mentioned, it is easy to up-grade these non-illuminated SP-type cabooses to illuminated as has been done to this one.
The 9381 has the distinction of being the last recognized use of the tall cupola window mold.
The 9380 NYNH&H SP-type caboose was produced in ’80 & ’81 only in the short copula window version as part of the 1050 New Englander set. The 1050 set was a step-and-a-half up from a basic starter set with a 2-6-4 die cast engine. This probably resulted in less sales and a greater propensity for the owners to keep the set intact. The end result, this was the hardest non-illuminated SP-type caboose on my list for me to find.
I have a particular fondness for anything NYNH&H. It was one of two railroads which went through the city I grew-up in, the other being the more dominant B&M. The NYNH&H tracks went through the downtown area. I remember sitting with dad in his ’54 Chevy waiting for a long (at least to me) freight to pass on its way to the junction with the B&M in Fitchburg. Over the years the freight traffic rapidly diminished and the NYNH&H track was abandoned.
The 9346 Wabash SP-type caboose was produced only in ’79 as part of the cataloged 1962 Wabash Cannonball and uncataloged 1991 JC Penny Wabash Deluxe Express sets. Except for road number, it’s the spitting image of the 9080 produced 2 years earlier. In reference material there is some confusion if the 9080 came in the 1962 set and the 9346 was only in the uncataloged 1991 set, which would explain the different road numbers for otherwise the same caboose. The ’79 catalog clearly shows the 9346 as part of the 1962 set which is further confirmed by 1962 sets for sale on eBay that include the 9346.
The 9341 Atlantic Coast Line SP-type caboose was produced initially from ’79 to ’82. It was part of the catalogued 1155 Cannonball Freight and 1687 Freight Flyer sets. The 9341 came with glo-in-the-dark windows in both sets. It also came in the 1159 & 1993 Toys-R-Us, the 1263 JC Penny, and 1265 Tappan sets during these years. Since it can be found in both the short and tall window copula versions, not all of these uncataloged sets would have come with glo-in-the-dark windows.
It was produced again from ’87 to ’90 as part of the 1687 Freight Flyer set which didn’t have glo-in-the-dark windows. It also came in several Rolling Stock Assortments during this time frame, although it was never shown in any of the catalogs as such. During this second run it was also part of the uncataloged 1658 Townhouse, 1685 True Value, and 1686 Kay Bee Toys sets. It was only produced in the short cupola window version during this second run as the tall cupola window mold was retired in the early ‘80’s. Finally, there are two different body colors; dark red (common) and red (less common).
With its extensive production history, it is easy to find at a cheap classic price.
Like the 9057, the 9058 Lionel Lines SP-type caboose was produced in ’78 & ’79 as part of two sets; the 1864 Santa Fe Double Diesel and the 1865 Chesapeake Flyer. To me, this is the most vanilla of the non-illuminated SP-type cabooses on my list. Somewhat unusual, it had no “Blt” date. It was only produced in the copula short window version.
It was produced again in ’83 as one of the rolling stock assortment. It happened to be one of the pieces of rolling stock shown. Kind of hit-or-miss being considered as cataloged because it was included in a RSA in a given year. As far as I know, there is no lists of the rolling stock included in RSA’s in the years offered.
The 9059 Lionel Lines SP-type caboose was uncataloged, therefore not on my list. It was the spitting image of the 9058 except for road number. In ’79 it may have actually been included in some of the 1864 (less likely) and/or 1865 (more likely) sets mentioned above. In ’81 it was part of the uncataloged 1157 Wabash Cannonball set. In any event, one plain vanilla Lionel Lines non-illuminated SP-type caboose is enough for me.
Numbering, numbering, numbering. The 9080 was the last logical sequence road number used by MPC for the catalogued, non-illuminated SP-type caboose. After it, they circled back and used 905x numbers for the next two. This was followed by a brief runs of 93xx’s, 64xx’s and 69xx’s road numbers. What the heck were they thinking? LTI ended the production using a 165xx sequence.
The 9057 CP Rail SP-type caboose was produced in ’78 & ’79 for the 1866 Great Plains Express set. It had un-painted yellow sides & ends with a black painted roof. It also sported a Pac-Man like logo at the rear which wasn’t particularly crisp. It was only produced in the copula short window version.
Hi ADCX Rob
Yes, the 9166 Rio Grande was the first two color body SP-type caboose produced by MPC. However, it was illuminated. There are several other illuminated two color body SP-type cabooses produced after the 9166 Rio Grande and before the 9080 Wabash. However, the 9080 Wabash was the first two color body on my "cheap classic" list. Guess we are both kind of right.
Many consider the 9166 Rio Grande to be the best looking SP-type caboose produced by MPC or LTI. I know I do, which is why I bought one during my search for the “cheap classic” cabooses on my list.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month