Hey Neil. Long time no see. All OK?
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Again, I'll have to agree, this is an entry level set for those that want Command/Control or just something the kids can start and play withj. Yup, it gets into the command state of mind and as time /money allows, get them into the "bigger sets".
While I am no fan of collecting more remotes for trains systems, I do love my Polar Express set and still think the play value is enormous. The only reason it's put away is because of my lack of room.
Still LOVE the sounds !!!!!
I am the monster in your head...And I thought you'd learn by now, It seems you haven't yet.I am the venom in your skin --- Breaking Benjamin
One thing to keep in mind. This technology is cheaper in sets than both conventional and TMCC because you don't need the heavy and relatively expensive variable power supply. So you're getting "command control lite" in a set for $150-200 and up, a price point not previously possible. While for some having multiple controllers is a negative, for groups or families, with visiting family or kids this is a positive. It's another choice. They haven't stopped making conventional or Legacy locos or sets. The Lion Chief Plus due out this year has a switch in locos to enable both conventional and Lion Chief remote operation.
I really think it was designed for the younger kids who operate their trains without a lot of adult supervision*. Once they get the "hang" of it, they can graduate to TMCC/Legacy and DCS.
* Santa brought me my first Lionel at 6 years old. My Uncle put it together at my Grandparents and showed me how to wire the simple loop with an uncoupling/activation section. Took it apart and carried it home. Neither my Dad or Mom knew anything about it. So, I learned by myself and reading the manual [Mom did help me read the manual but I was good at following pictures].
wallyworld I can see where running two trains on the same track would be different but theres another consideration that might explain a split between conventional operation and command and that is the term that was once used frequently but you don't hear now, which is "lone wolf operators" who for whatever reason have only themselves to run their layouts. How often are there collisions? Thats a question I have never heard asked.
I can see where running two trains on the same track would be different but theres another consideration that might explain a split between conventional operation and command and that is the term that was once used frequently but you don't hear now, which is "lone wolf operators" who for whatever reason have only themselves to run their layouts. How often are there collisions? Thats a question I have never heard asked.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
While this is not my cup of tea it does make you wonder why it was not integrated with their other systems. I cannot imagine that the cost would have been out of the question. However my view is that selling additional product is a intentional aim as profits come first as a fact of life. Frankly I think the whole command control bit was just that, another profit center so to split it into 'beginners" and "advanced" makes sense from that point of view. Another reason is for younger folks the thinking was probably ease of operation, and of course then the question is when are they going to simplify their other systems?
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
I like the build a box for the handhelds if you build a fleet.
ChiefEagles Buckeye, have you read the new CTT and the article on Lion Chief?
Buckeye, have you read the new CTT and the article on Lion Chief?
Yes.
Did you read my post above where I quoted Bob Keller from CTT magazine about the Lion Chief?
Wally....I have TrainMaster Command Control (TMCC) and run at maximum five trains on one continuous track that is about 200' long with two end reverse loops and two intermediate reverse loops. As Blueberry once said, "On Buckeye's layout you really do run the trains."
Therefore, TMCC was a perfect choice based upon the configuration of the layout somewhat dictated by the room. Conventional only would let me run one train at once unless I did the isolated block design. (I had done that previously in HO and thought it was archaic.)
So I see the advantages of command. I just don't see the advantages of Lionel's new LionChief system and the way they designed it with a control for every engine and then we find out it will not work with TMCC or Legacy that was developed by Lionel and it will not work in conventional mode. I see the advantages of conventional control because you can buy just about any engine every made and run it in loops.
To me the whole issue is a tempest in a teapot as it is an add on rather than a requirement.
To me the whole scenario of variations and competing command control systems has been justified by the manufacturers as "added play value." A great deal of this "added value" depends on whether you are switching a lot, or run continuous loops. In other words it isn't a necessity. Who remembers when tethered throttles were the next big thing? Some bought them and installed those plugs around the layout to follow the train around.It was considered state of the art and the issue for me is the state of the art will always change, and so as long as there is a choice in the matter,between conventional and command control..I prefer to spend the funds on the trains etc rather than a state of the art power transformer and control for my layout that has continuous running on three loops. The only advantage I can see is running two trains on the same track and thats it..which to me ( having three loops ) is enough for me to keep an eye on. So "added play value" is unnecessary as well as the added cost, complexity, and additional components.
I consider myself lucky.. I also cycle between contemporary and tinplate as far as whats on the track..so whats the point of command control? I think it's advantages have been over sold.
CTT, March 2014, Reviews with Bob Keller and the CTT Staff, pages 64-65.
"The $64 question is whether or not we need yet another command system in O gauge. The fact that each handheld is tethered to the same model of locomotive is a limiting factor. Build a fleet of these LionChief models and you will need a box just to keep all the remotes in one place." - Bob Keller
And that is why my Grandson has a new Thomas with conventional control.
Buckeye - I wonder what the cost would be to convert to Leagacy as all the sounds are there.
I do have pictures, but I cannot upload from here. But the report, I can do.
The Polar Express LionChief was a big hit. Set up is literally plug and play. Set up the FasTrack, place the trains on the track and plug in the power.....That's it. Add 3 AA batteries to the remote, which has an on and off switch and you are set. It comes with Polar Epress Engine, Tender and 3 passenger cars, all lit. One note, in big spaces like a fire dept engine bay, the sounds are drowned out. If there is a volume control on this beast, I could not find it. Sounds, however, are supurb. Tom Hanks lives here, for sure. The steam and chuff are above par and the smoke is synchronized. With 18 volts flowing through the FasTrack, this thing couldn't help BUT smoke. Detail and casting is typical Lionel, and being what I paid for the set - sub $300 delivered, I'm not going to complain. I compared this to my first gen Polar Express and this is right on par. Bodies could be switched, no doubt. I was hesistant to connect and disconnect the tender and there is a coupler/connector, but it was new and works well now. Be careful though, it is plastic. It pulls 8 Polar Express cars without complaints and still had more power on tap. My girl friend's 5 year old daughter found the remote a little difficult to handle but the buttons and controls were not too difficult to use. She loved the whistle.
All in all, the lack of Legacy/TMCC integration not withstanding, I would recommend this set to anyone whether its for Christmas use or everyday. This set has much play and item value to it. Kids will love the set and the controls, that parents will love the price.
anjdevil2 SO Buckeye, YOU are right, you will have multiple remotes with this system. Rich
SO Buckeye, YOU are right, you will have multiple remotes with this system.
Rich
Thanks!
Bob Keller
Bob - I will be giving this set a full workout on Friday for the Santa Parade. I have a small layout that will will be set up in the firehouse engine bay. It will be running at least 3 hours for the duration of the line to see Santa that night.
I'll see about getting some stills and video.
OK here is a clarification!
I just got an e-mail from Lionel and the scoop is it works ALONG SIDE of Legacy/TMCC it does NOT
work WITH Legacy/TMCC. You can use it with trains on that system with THAT contoller and not
interfere with those systems. I have literature that is sort of misleading to me. Its in the new catalog that lead me to believe it would work.
I'm working ups review of the Polar Express LionChief set (it goes to the Art Dept next Friday) and I'd be interested in feedback from owners of the Polar Express set.
Shoot me a note at bkeller@classictoytrains.com.
Be sure to include your real name, not your forum handle, in case we quite you!
This recently turned 30 year old who loves big band music and the song Chattanooga Choo Choo (my favorite train song) , has his eye on that Chatanooga set ever since the 2013 ready to run catalog came out and under $200 at Trainworld and Charles Ro. (My birthday also fell on the same day as those Lionel open houses at Charles Ro and Trainworld, so I went to Charles Ro...very fun.).
anjdevil2 I have Legacy and TMCC systems and it works with them both.
I have Legacy and TMCC systems and it works with them both.
Rich thats cool I was confused as didn't read all the post but did see the bobs train box and from what I gather it wasn't compatible with tmcc and legacy and you needed a seperate controller for each engine but thanks to you thats cleared up and the answer is no it will work with them. Glad you got one. Not in the market for any trains right now but that would be a nice add on from what your saying
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
OK Girls, here is the scoop.
No I DID NOT read all the posts. But as LionRoar said, it will be compatable with ALL LIONEL SYSTEMS!! Hence...I BOUGHT ONE!! I got mine through TrainLand/TrainWorld shipped to my door for an OUTSTANDING $300 bill. I am AMAZED at the value that is packed into this system. It runs, sounds and looks like the Polar Express that I have without the LionChief. For all you neigh sayers moaning about another system, I urge you to look into this. I have Legacy and TMCC systems and it works with them both. This is a no brainer for your kids, like Brent's, that are into trains. I have yet to run it on my Christmas Layout, but the controls are fabulous. I put together a short piece of straight track to hear it. I always wanted all the sounds from the Polar Express without going scale and this is it.
I am EXTREMELY happy so far with the immense value here. My Polar Express without LionChief was
over $400 with taxes and I picked it up at my LHS. MY advice is RUN, don't walk to the nearest computer anad get 'em at the pre-sale prices. $300 won't buy you an engine with TMCC let alone a full set with track, cars and engine. Set up is so stupidly simple. Literally its plug and play.
Yes !!! I AM that THRILLED.
Al - It is related, but different. I'll start a new thread as it probably should have been in the first place.
https://brentsandsusanspicutures.shutterfly.com/
Is this part of a new thread? We seem to be off topic here.
What are you running under the tree? Your KW will control two separate tracks conventionally. No TMCC is required.
TMCC will un up to 99 locomotives equipped with TMCC on the same track.
You only need a power master bridge for controlling a Lionel Power master with Legacy. This applies only if you have a conventional transformer controlled engine and want to operate it with TMCC or Legacy.
I appreciate these insights. I've been running my layout conventionally, and I've been intrigued by the ability to run two engines on the same track by a guest each using the remote for a particular engine. From the video, I'm presuming the other big difference from conventional is having to maintain a consistent and higher voltage to the track
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Follow-up here...I need to figure out what I need to purchase to power the under-the-tree layout. I have a KW and a TMCC Cab1 and Base. I know I need something else but can't remember what it is... is it the power master bridge, and if so do I need one per loop?Eventually I will get a ZW-L and transition the modern ZW to the Christmas layout. I don't think I will get a Legacy Command Base and CAB2 for it as I only run this for a month or so a year... at most I may get one of the newer Cab1 setups, but from what I read in the Signature Catalog you can only program one engine as 99 and one train/track as 99 - is that true?
yes a staged scene for TV to make it look real woopie
Never mind that other stuff. The second video is from a great historic site. "Huh?" you say? Well, let's remember that fine O Gauge afficionado Bobby Baccala, uh, "bought it" at "Trainland" !
I must say that my 6 year old grandson has little trouble running my Legacy locomotives with a Legacy controller. He was able to access all the functions once I showed him how. He did not try to program it however. It is not he most user friendly system but once understood it is not too bad.
Since I have gone to the Legacy system, I have TMCC too, my post war locos are a little bland but I still run them and have no plans of getting rid of them.
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